Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: CURB WS Crafting info yet?
SonGouki
Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:16 am
#66
Helios_SOE wrote:
Since we no longer have min/mid/max range bonuses (because we no longer have min/mid/max range accuracy differences), we moved to one "general accuracy" value. The "Accuracy" on a weapon should stack with your other accuracymodifiers (from skill mods, etc). You will also notice we got rid of the "mid distance" stat all together. Weapons now only have min/max distances.
CrimsonRanger wrote:
Thanks for the reply, Helios. Are you referring to a general accuracy bonus like the combat skill currently provides? If so, does that stack with, and possibly cap, the accuracy combat skill? If not, how exactly will it work?
Thanks.
So you're saying that as long as you use a weapon within that range it will operate optimally? No more you're off by one metre so you suffer a huge accuracy penalty? If that's so, it sounds good to me!
neinnunb
Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:17 am
#67
Helios_SOE wrote:Since we no longer have min/mid/max range bonuses (because we no longer have min/mid/max range accuracy differences), we moved to one "general accuracy" value. The "Accuracy" on a weapon should stack with your other accuracy modifiers (from skill mods, etc). You will also notice we got rid of the "mid distance" stat all together. Weapons now only have min/max distances.
CrimsonRanger wrote:Thanks for the reply, Helios. Are you referring to a general accuracy bonus like the combat skill currently provides? If so, does that stack with, and possibly cap, the accuracy combat skill? If not, how exactly will it work?Thanks.
I would like to get an official answer to this. I notice pretty much all rifles have range of 0-65. Thats pretty much the best range. If thats the case why go carbineer or pistols if a rifle can have the same accuracy from melee range and out to the max? Rifles should have really bad accuracy if your at melee range.
D8alus
Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:24 am
#68
neinnunb wrote:
Helios_SOE wrote:
Since we no longer have min/mid/max range bonuses (because we no longer have min/mid/max range accuracy differences), we moved to one "general accuracy" value. The "Accuracy" on a weapon should stack with your other accuracy modifiers (from skill mods, etc). You will also notice we got rid of the "mid distance" stat all together. Weapons now only have min/max distances.
CrimsonRanger wrote:
Thanks for the reply, Helios. Are you referring to a general accuracy bonus like the combat skill currently provides? If so, does that stack with, and possibly cap, the accuracy combat skill? If not, how exactly will it work?
Thanks.
I would like to get an official answer to this. I notice pretty much all rifles have range of 0-65. Thats pretty much the best range. If thats the case why go carbineer or pistols if a rifle can have the same accuracy from melee range and out to the max? Rifles should have really bad accuracy if your at melee range.
After spending 4 years as an infantry soldier, I HATE this idea of balance. ACC gets better the closer you are to the target..PERIOD. With ANY weapon.
Maybe make rifles do less damage up close...or just keep it so they have a slower refire, fine with me that way.
Plus, with the new system, you'll have trouble using the rifle specials because they're interruptable. Which makes a pistol more ideal at close range. VOILA, balance.
Alristico
Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:33 am
#69
Helios_SOE wrote:
Since we no longer have min/mid/max range bonuses (because we no longer have min/mid/max range accuracy differences), we moved to one "general accuracy" value. The "Accuracy" on a weapon should stack with your other accuracymodifiers (from skill mods, etc). You will also notice we got rid of the "mid distance" stat all together. Weapons now only have min/max distances.
CrimsonRanger wrote:
Thanks for the reply, Helios. Are you referring to a general accuracy bonus like the combat skill currently provides? If so, does that stack with, and possibly cap, the accuracy combat skill? If not, how exactly will it work?
Thanks.
Does this mean my 40+ million credit pre-nerf T21with a modifier of +0 at 0m will be just a regular T21 after the conversion? That would really be dissappointing. And if so, I wouldn't want to sell it now cause I wouldn't want to intentionally rip someone off. Say it ain't so Helios 
CrimsonRanger
Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:36 am
#70
Where is the durability of a weapon determined? Does any of the 3 crafting lines (speed, damage, efficiency) affect it?
Bermag
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:04 am
#71
I really think you should make condition experimentable. Let us decide if it is worth experimenting on or not. More options are nice to have even if we don't use them.
Replacing range modes with just one accuracy bonus is much easier and better. In the heat of the battle none ever think about the ideal range anyway.
What I do hope is that accuracy and defense modewill work better than today. Usually all the stats only matter with low-mid level creatures. Impossible to use a state effect (except intimidate/warcry) on any high-level creatures and your defenses does not matter when you are in the creature's ideal range. You can have max defenses+ Pikatta but when you are hit by a Krayt at point blank it never misses. only thing affecting the accuracy of a Krayt is range and movement (if you run from a krayt when over 20-30m it start to miss).
Ndrene
Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:39 am
#72
So, condition will be determined by Resource.
Will ranged weapons building continue to be plagued by the ridiculous caps on some of the most important ranged resources? Plumbum and Polonium for example?
Will ranged weapons building continue to be plagued by the ridiculous caps on some of the most important ranged resources? Plumbum and Polonium for example?
sabacc1000
Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:37 am
#73
Ndrene wrote:
So, condition will be determined by Resource.
Will ranged weapons building continue to be plagued by the ridiculous caps on some of the most important ranged resources? Plumbum and Polonium for example?
The caps on resources aren't accidental. Stat caps have always been used to limit the power of weapons.
Think about it this way. If they wanted, I suppose everything could require Mythra Copper, or something like that, but then they'd just have toscale downthe inherent stats so the final product would end up where they wanted.
Either way, the stats would end up the same way. Using stat caps, however, enforces additional diversity.
I can't say for sure whether such resources will be used in the new weaponry, but whether they are or not, the maximum attainable stats on weapons will be the same.
Sifer2
Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:02 am
#74
I think the Ranged accuracy changes sound good. We have way too many Melee players in the game. That isnt very Star Warsy at all. A Melee players primary role should be Tanking an hit an run assasination. If a guy with a Rifle sees you coming from 65m away though you should be toast. Once you actually get into Melee range you will then be able to disable him with a Knockdown an go to town. But just because your in his face does'nt mean he should now have no chance of victory an constantly miss. You will have the advantage up close but he still gonna be shooting you. If he had already taken a large portion of your health off before you got there then your probably going to die. So in essence were going back to how things were when this game launched. Ranged was the primary type of combat with Melee people being very sneaky. You can always grab a Pistol afterall an use that until you get close then switch to Melee as a surprise.
GraySeven
Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:05 am
#75
KJFett wrote:
a quick hit of that rifle barrel and youll be eating the end of your own stock. I believe that is the point they are trying to make. A rifle is not intended for use up close. If it was, there would be no need for carbines. It is that very reason that carbines exist. The Carbine is the close quarters rifle.
There is a reason rifles have bayonette lugs, and a reason why trained soldiers learn to use their weapon in hand to hand. Rifles, while not intended for up close and personal work, are not at that great a disadvantage in CQC. A long stick beats a short knife.
Carbines are not intended for CQC either, submachineguns such as the HK MP-5K are. These are closer to pistols than the SWG version of carbines, but that is another issue entirely. Real life carbines are cut down versions of rifles, typically used in applications where the longer rifle would be disruptive, such as tankers and paratroopers and some SpecFor applications.
The fact of the matter is that game mechanics require that all weapons be usable from 0 meters, otherwise balance is thrown right out the window. All creatures come into melee range eventually, meaning that rifles would be useless as a combat profession. The balance is that rifle specials can easily be interupted at melee range and that most rifle specials appear to require you to be prone and/or concealed.
And be realistic. The reason no one uses swords on the battlefield anymore is that you could never get close enough to use them, regardless of tactics, without piling bodies up in unacceptable levels (Zulu Dawn). Trained martial artists (such as my buddy who competed in the Goodwill games) will tell you flat out that you don't fight someone with a gun unless you have one too (his quote).
Stop trying to force percieved reality intoa game environment. Balance requires certain things that may not, on the surface, appear to make much sense, but in application have great meaning.
SeaRaptor
Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:31 am
#76
This is... interesting. I'd be interested to hear how this will affect the Tenloss and Geno pistol (and their artificially deflated starting durability) and other weapons that require poor materials that hoses their durability.
Helios_SOE wrote:
Today...
... durability is entirely a function of resources. The durabilityexperimentation line was removed to make room for more [comparatively] important stat lines.
vizakohmen
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:18 am
#77
D8alus wrote:
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:If you're fighting someone that is a skilled martial artist? Luke had one hell of a time with a tusken and to be frank I'd expect someone to be able to stab you, with a weapon weighted for the purposes of cutting through short distances quickly, faster than you could step back and fire. Remember the size of a T-21 here, we aren't talking about short barrelled guns.
D8alus wrote:It's really not THAT hard to take a step back and shoot.
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:Even when you're within point blank range (1-2 feet) and your rifle's barrel is a full meter long? I agree that accuracy at mid-ranges should be fairly even and should be great at long range but point blank is not where a sniper belongs and that is what rifleman is being turned into it seems. Not rambo soldiers with a M-60 in the trenches but a guy at range with a scope concealed.
D8alus wrote:
neinnunb wrote:
I would like to get an official answer to this. I notice pretty much all rifles have range of 0-65. Thats pretty much the best range. If thats the case why go carbineer or pistols if a rifle can have the same accuracy from melee range and out to the max? Rifles should have really bad accuracy if your at melee range.After spending 4 years as an infantry soldier, I HATE this idea of balance. ACC gets better the closer you are to the target..PERIOD. With ANY weapon.Maybe make rifles do less damage up close...or just keep it so they have a slower refire, fine with me that way.Plus, with the new system, you'll have trouble using the rifle specials because they're interruptable. Which makes a pistol more ideal at close range. VOILA, balance.
If you REALLY want to play THAT game, A MARTIAL ARTIST CAN'T DODGE BULLETS/LASERS. So it's a non-issue; they'd never make it into melee range.Message Edited by D8alus on 04-03-2005 05:46 PM
True, they can't dodge bullets, but a fast moving target can make it really hard to aim and fire the weapon without missing. You need to lead them, and predict where they'll be. If you don't believe its tough to hit a moving target, try rabbit hunting = ). The only time you can hit them is when they are still.
Now, if you expand a rabbit up to a deer to increase the target size, and add a scope into the mix.... forget it. It's extremely difficult to hit anything that's moving, through a scope. That's why it's so difficult to be a sniper. You need to wait for an opportune moment, usually when the target is still, to get a "good shot". This is one place where the movies are close to being correct. You can't lead a target through a scope. That only works with shotguns, and plain eyeballs. In general, scopes don't have a very wide field of view. Leading a running target through a scope is next to impossible.
Carbines and automatic weapons were invented to solve this problem of aiming. People discovered that if you fire enough rounds at a target, you are likely to hit it. Alas, that method is only good to 50 meters or so, with any degree of success. At 10-30 meters there is no escaping an uzi or semi auto carbine unless you can really boogie and mix it up.
so while a "MARTIAL ARTIST CAN'T DODGE BULLETS", they can sure as hell be very difficult to hit with a slow firing rifle at close range. You'd be likely to get one shot off before they were on you, kicking your rear and shoving that rifle where the sun don't shine.
Anyone that has grown up in the mean streets of a city will tell you if you are going to carry a piece, you better know how to use it, and be willing to use it, or it will be taken from you, and you will be killed either by getting shot from it, or beaten to death with it.
The notion that a martial artist can take a firearm from you and kick your butt isn't very far off the mark of reality, if you live in the same reality as the rest of the world. Guns can jam, you can forget to take the safety off, you can drop them, they can recoil and spoil your next shot for 2-3 seconds, blah blah blah. You'd likely get one round off at Bruce Lee before he was shoving the butt of that pistol down your throat. You'd better kill him = ). If he suprised you, or got the first attack in, you'd be done in 1-3 seconds. The game is very kind in this regard. It's hard to aim a weapon when you are seeing white after a good shot to the nose. You'd likely be stunned and before you could react, you'd have several facial bones broken from a flurry of well placed iron fist.
I think you can argue both sides of this point.
l8,
viza
Standardlager
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:49 am
#78
SeaRaptor wrote:
This is... interesting. I'd be interested to hear how this will affect the Tenloss and Geno pistol (and their artificially deflated starting durability) and other weapons that require poor materials that hoses their durability.
Helios_SOE wrote:
Today...
... durability is entirely a function of resources. The durabilityexperimentation line was removed to make room for more [comparatively] important stat lines.
It sounds a little bit sketchy to me. I also am not the biggest fan of all these weapons with 3k condition now. Is this going to be yet another little thorn in our side.