Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: NGE Discussion
RingSting_IOM
Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:16 am
#54
ThargarOtherland wrote:
I think everyone needs to read the FAQ a little better or I am missing something. The FAQ does not say that there is no item decay, it says that there is no more decay from death.
Quoted
VI. No More Item Decay
Item decay has been completely removed from the game.
Can you explain a little more about how Damage and Decay will work?
This part of the death penalty has been removed from Galaxies.
If you read this for what it says and not just for the title, it only states the highligted and underlined. No more death decay.
Decay is gone, read the lines above
Item decay has been completely removed from the game.
NoeNoa
Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:46 am
#55
To the Developers,
While I cannot claim that I speak on behalf of the entire community, I do believe that my comments here will reflect much of what most of the veterans of this game feel at the release of the upcoming "game enchancements" information today.
To start off, for those who don't know me, I am a veteran SWG player. I tracked the game prior to release, and pre-ordered the Collector's Edition on the first day. I have played this game since day one. I own three accounts, all of which I have leveled myself. One is a Jedi, the others are non-Jedi characters. Two of those accounts are currently active (for the time being). I served as the Scout Correspondent from July 2003 until February of 2005, being the second longest serving Correspondent in the game. I attended the first Fan-fest in Anaheim (I live in Washington, DC) and I attended the Correspondent Summit in Austin, where I met Julio, Tiggs, and reintroduced myself to many of the rest of the design team that I had met at Fan-fest, including Thunderheart, Keldarin, GreenMarine (no longer with SOE) and many others. I alpha tested Jump-to-Lightspeed, and beta tested Rage of the Wookies and the Trials of Obi-Wan. I do believe that all of these experiences lend significant emphasis and credability to the opinions I want to express here.
I have reviewed the FAQ, as well as Julio's letter to the community. While it took a while to understand the magnitude of what is happening here, I have come to grips with it.
These game changes, in my opinion, represent a serious breach of trust with the community and fail to take into account the efforts that the veterans of this community have made in the game.
It is a slap in the face to announce these changes - changes which may take effect within three weeks or less to the game - ONE DAY after a new expansion that many of us have purchased copies of, some multiple copies of, was released. The dust has not even settled on The Trials of Obi-Wan, and now we are being presented with changes that will completely change the way the game looks, feels and is played. In my mind, this is little better than a virtual bait-and-switch perpetrated on the entire community.
I am well aware of the development process, thanks to my work as a Correspondent. I know that these changes must have been in the pipeline for months, particularly if all of the coding will be completed in less than one months time. The Combat Balance/Upgrade/Revamp that I assisted with and helped to shape in Austin at the Summit and throughout the process took over a year and half to develop, code and complete. Yet this entire process was done in secret, including all of the PR preparations made by Tiggs and the SOE Community Relations staff, and sprung on the community without an inkling two days after the expansion was released.
In real life, I'm a lobbyist, and I've been working in Washington for 10 years. So I've seen a lot of conspiracy theories come and go. And If I were a cynic, I would say that this was a carefully timed announcement, designed to hit the community right after the expansion was released, so that SOE and LEC could have gotten the money for the expansion from as many veterans as possible, hoping that that capital would keep the game going through the massive wave of cancellations from those same veterans when changes of this magnitude were announced. And once all the veterans are gone, marketing could focus on bringing new players to the game, who had no knowledge of the previous two years and wouldn't have a problem with what you've done here. I hope to God that that's just the anger talking here, because if any part of what I've said is just true, it would represent the biggest rip-off of an entire gaming community in the history of the gaming industry.
I feel cheated and ripped off. And I think I speak for a large portion of the community when I say that.
And this is how I feel strictly based on the timing of the announcement. The actual changes you are proposing are worse.
Changes of this magnitude, less than 6 months after changes of a similiar magnitude, make it hard for me to accept that this game will still be Star Wars Galaxies. If anything, these game enchancements seem to be attempting to turn SWG into some kind of amalgamation of World of Warcraft, Planetside and Knights of the Old Republic. This isn't why I play SWG, and isn't why I've stuck with this game for two years.
And while I recognize that we veterans will receive "elder" buffs and status in the game, that's not enough. How do you begin to repay someone for the hundreds and thousands of hours they've spent playing this game, building up credits, skills, guilds, equipment, etc. and then wiping away everything they've accomplished in less than a month? I can't tell you the number of days I've taken off work to play SWG, or ignored a deadline or got an extension on a project just to stay out a bit later in a great XP group. All of that is for naught - you are invalidating most of what I've accomplished in the game in two years and in return, I get a special buff. That's not enough.
Rangers were promised a complete revamp less than a month ago, with outlines and changes that got many of them excited about the game again. Now, Rangers have been removed. The profession that I advocated on behalf of for nearly two years, Scout, is gone. The hours and hours I spent writing and rewriting guides for the community on the profession are now worthless.
And worse than the fact that the changes can't begin to compensate for what I'm losing, you're destroying what has kept most people in this game as long as we've been here - the community.
And its already happening. I recently cancelled my World of Warcraft account (even after the news of their new expansion) to come back to SWG full time, and one of the main reasons I cited was the community. My guild on Bloodfin, which is comprised of approximately 60 players with probably close 150 accounts all-together has almost fallen apart IN THE SPAN OF FIVE HOURS. Just looking through my ventrilo, I see people with comments of "5 accounts cancelled", "3 accounts cancelled", "Anybody want to buy 100 mill credits", "3 Jedi for sale cheap, will take food for trade". These are all veteran gamers, guild leaders, beta testers, the kinds of players that MMO designers listen to and make games specifically for - and they're all unhappy. Not a single person I've spoken to is happy right now.
This entire process is fatally flawed. It's flawed because there have been consistent promises made to this community by the Community Relations staff that major changes to the game would be discussed in the community and that we would have some kind of say over them. There's a reason why there are "In Dev", "In Testing" and "In Concept" forums on these boards. But they weren't used here.
Do you even understand the magnitude of what you're doing? If you don't right now, you will when you get the metrics back on how many accounts were cancelled today.
Stop this process now. Get community feedback. Ignore the focus groups and the exit polls and LISTEN to your community. Focus groups and polling is all well and good - I use it myself. But nothing beats getting out in and amongst the actual people who play this game and hearing what they think about this. Make these changes gradual. Do them a little at a time, so that people can get used to them and integrate them into their playstyle. The game was made in a day, it doesn't need to be remade in a day.
Better yet, don't go forward with the changes at all - save them for Star Wars Galaxies II - The Search for More Money. (I hope you all get the reference).
For the sake of all of us who have put so much into this game, and even for those players who simply log in once in a while, kill a few stormtroopers but pay their $15 a month for it, reconsider these changes and allow the community a chance to respond and contribute to the process.
This is our game. It is our money and it is our free time. Respect us. Give us the opportunity to affect this process in a meaningful, cooperative way. It is the very least that we have earned through our dedication and loyalty to this game.
BRISC RUBAL
While I cannot claim that I speak on behalf of the entire community, I do believe that my comments here will reflect much of what most of the veterans of this game feel at the release of the upcoming "game enchancements" information today.
To start off, for those who don't know me, I am a veteran SWG player. I tracked the game prior to release, and pre-ordered the Collector's Edition on the first day. I have played this game since day one. I own three accounts, all of which I have leveled myself. One is a Jedi, the others are non-Jedi characters. Two of those accounts are currently active (for the time being). I served as the Scout Correspondent from July 2003 until February of 2005, being the second longest serving Correspondent in the game. I attended the first Fan-fest in Anaheim (I live in Washington, DC) and I attended the Correspondent Summit in Austin, where I met Julio, Tiggs, and reintroduced myself to many of the rest of the design team that I had met at Fan-fest, including Thunderheart, Keldarin, GreenMarine (no longer with SOE) and many others. I alpha tested Jump-to-Lightspeed, and beta tested Rage of the Wookies and the Trials of Obi-Wan. I do believe that all of these experiences lend significant emphasis and credability to the opinions I want to express here.
I have reviewed the FAQ, as well as Julio's letter to the community. While it took a while to understand the magnitude of what is happening here, I have come to grips with it.
These game changes, in my opinion, represent a serious breach of trust with the community and fail to take into account the efforts that the veterans of this community have made in the game.
It is a slap in the face to announce these changes - changes which may take effect within three weeks or less to the game - ONE DAY after a new expansion that many of us have purchased copies of, some multiple copies of, was released. The dust has not even settled on The Trials of Obi-Wan, and now we are being presented with changes that will completely change the way the game looks, feels and is played. In my mind, this is little better than a virtual bait-and-switch perpetrated on the entire community.
I am well aware of the development process, thanks to my work as a Correspondent. I know that these changes must have been in the pipeline for months, particularly if all of the coding will be completed in less than one months time. The Combat Balance/Upgrade/Revamp that I assisted with and helped to shape in Austin at the Summit and throughout the process took over a year and half to develop, code and complete. Yet this entire process was done in secret, including all of the PR preparations made by Tiggs and the SOE Community Relations staff, and sprung on the community without an inkling two days after the expansion was released.
In real life, I'm a lobbyist, and I've been working in Washington for 10 years. So I've seen a lot of conspiracy theories come and go. And If I were a cynic, I would say that this was a carefully timed announcement, designed to hit the community right after the expansion was released, so that SOE and LEC could have gotten the money for the expansion from as many veterans as possible, hoping that that capital would keep the game going through the massive wave of cancellations from those same veterans when changes of this magnitude were announced. And once all the veterans are gone, marketing could focus on bringing new players to the game, who had no knowledge of the previous two years and wouldn't have a problem with what you've done here. I hope to God that that's just the anger talking here, because if any part of what I've said is just true, it would represent the biggest rip-off of an entire gaming community in the history of the gaming industry.
I feel cheated and ripped off. And I think I speak for a large portion of the community when I say that.
And this is how I feel strictly based on the timing of the announcement. The actual changes you are proposing are worse.
Changes of this magnitude, less than 6 months after changes of a similiar magnitude, make it hard for me to accept that this game will still be Star Wars Galaxies. If anything, these game enchancements seem to be attempting to turn SWG into some kind of amalgamation of World of Warcraft, Planetside and Knights of the Old Republic. This isn't why I play SWG, and isn't why I've stuck with this game for two years.
And while I recognize that we veterans will receive "elder" buffs and status in the game, that's not enough. How do you begin to repay someone for the hundreds and thousands of hours they've spent playing this game, building up credits, skills, guilds, equipment, etc. and then wiping away everything they've accomplished in less than a month? I can't tell you the number of days I've taken off work to play SWG, or ignored a deadline or got an extension on a project just to stay out a bit later in a great XP group. All of that is for naught - you are invalidating most of what I've accomplished in the game in two years and in return, I get a special buff. That's not enough.
Rangers were promised a complete revamp less than a month ago, with outlines and changes that got many of them excited about the game again. Now, Rangers have been removed. The profession that I advocated on behalf of for nearly two years, Scout, is gone. The hours and hours I spent writing and rewriting guides for the community on the profession are now worthless.
And worse than the fact that the changes can't begin to compensate for what I'm losing, you're destroying what has kept most people in this game as long as we've been here - the community.
And its already happening. I recently cancelled my World of Warcraft account (even after the news of their new expansion) to come back to SWG full time, and one of the main reasons I cited was the community. My guild on Bloodfin, which is comprised of approximately 60 players with probably close 150 accounts all-together has almost fallen apart IN THE SPAN OF FIVE HOURS. Just looking through my ventrilo, I see people with comments of "5 accounts cancelled", "3 accounts cancelled", "Anybody want to buy 100 mill credits", "3 Jedi for sale cheap, will take food for trade". These are all veteran gamers, guild leaders, beta testers, the kinds of players that MMO designers listen to and make games specifically for - and they're all unhappy. Not a single person I've spoken to is happy right now.
This entire process is fatally flawed. It's flawed because there have been consistent promises made to this community by the Community Relations staff that major changes to the game would be discussed in the community and that we would have some kind of say over them. There's a reason why there are "In Dev", "In Testing" and "In Concept" forums on these boards. But they weren't used here.
Do you even understand the magnitude of what you're doing? If you don't right now, you will when you get the metrics back on how many accounts were cancelled today.
Stop this process now. Get community feedback. Ignore the focus groups and the exit polls and LISTEN to your community. Focus groups and polling is all well and good - I use it myself. But nothing beats getting out in and amongst the actual people who play this game and hearing what they think about this. Make these changes gradual. Do them a little at a time, so that people can get used to them and integrate them into their playstyle. The game was made in a day, it doesn't need to be remade in a day.
Better yet, don't go forward with the changes at all - save them for Star Wars Galaxies II - The Search for More Money. (I hope you all get the reference).
For the sake of all of us who have put so much into this game, and even for those players who simply log in once in a while, kill a few stormtroopers but pay their $15 a month for it, reconsider these changes and allow the community a chance to respond and contribute to the process.
This is our game. It is our money and it is our free time. Respect us. Give us the opportunity to affect this process in a meaningful, cooperative way. It is the very least that we have earned through our dedication and loyalty to this game.
BRISC RUBAL
ShugFlurry
Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:51 am
#56
I think youll find that money is all they love and thats what they will probably receive.
SeaRaptor
Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:21 pm
#57
ShugFlurry wrote:
Heres a question:
Why do you believe it is worth shafting crafters who have poured more time into this game than many of the devs. I swear I have played this game, been in-game, posted more, thought more planned more than any dev.
WHY?
Oh yeah.. greed... damn cardinal sins.
I'd love to see them answer this.
It's been good knowing you guys. You're a great bunch. I haven't played Galaxies in months, but it's a shame to think that this forum won't exist before too much longer, since Weaponsmithing won't exist but for another 2 weeks or so.
SeaRaptor
Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:39 pm
#59
Howdy Dawin. I come back every now and then to see what's up. Today it's been mainly to rant at SOE and express sympathies to crafters and merchants, since they've just been told that their money and playstyle are no longer welcome in Star Wars Galaxies.
Munitionsmaster
Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:58 pm
#60
My advice to all current WS who are staying:
Grind, make and stockpile all the weapons from all the resources you have for the next couple weeks. When the times comes go full combatant. You can still be a merchant with the stockpile and get the benefits of once being some one who helped your community.... *Crys*
Grind, make and stockpile all the weapons from all the resources you have for the next couple weeks. When the times comes go full combatant. You can still be a merchant with the stockpile and get the benefits of once being some one who helped your community.... *Crys*
Muzz
Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:11 pm
#61
I think this is FANTASTIC news.
Just kidding.
So, we're getting EQ2 crafting. Admittedly we've all suspected this from the way it has all been nerfed and dumbed down. Generic crafting of non-decay items here we come!! Well, not me.
This is their admission that the CU didn't work and I suspect their way of thinning out Jedi. Considering that this MUST have been in development for some time they must have realised the screw-up CU made very soon after it went live. Well, they are in the last chance saloon now, even the most blindly devoted fanboi must surely acknowledge that.
My major concern with this is how I am going to spend the $30 a month I will be saving. My Architect account has just been cancelled and this one will be when I can dispose of all my stuff (and there's alot).
edit.... Oh, and even if I was staying, I certainly wouldn't waste my time on TC, I stopped playing there a long time ago, they never take notice of bug reports, we all know how many reported bugs make it live every time. Inflexible deadlines are more important to SOE than a quality product.
Just kidding.
So, we're getting EQ2 crafting. Admittedly we've all suspected this from the way it has all been nerfed and dumbed down. Generic crafting of non-decay items here we come!! Well, not me.
This is their admission that the CU didn't work and I suspect their way of thinning out Jedi. Considering that this MUST have been in development for some time they must have realised the screw-up CU made very soon after it went live. Well, they are in the last chance saloon now, even the most blindly devoted fanboi must surely acknowledge that.
My major concern with this is how I am going to spend the $30 a month I will be saving. My Architect account has just been cancelled and this one will be when I can dispose of all my stuff (and there's alot).
edit.... Oh, and even if I was staying, I certainly wouldn't waste my time on TC, I stopped playing there a long time ago, they never take notice of bug reports, we all know how many reported bugs make it live every time. Inflexible deadlines are more important to SOE than a quality product.
Message Edited by Muzz on 11-03-2005 08:13 AM
Implementor
Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:46 pm
#62
Imaridril wrote:
Liakhara wrote:
from here:
Tiggs wrote:
How are weapons changing in the new system (stats, relevant usage, etc.)?
Weapons now have two stats – damage and range. Some select weapons have an elemental damage value added.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=nge_discussion&message.id=3064
Man, even if weaponsmiths still have a market, just imagine how dumbed down crafting is going to be with only two stats on a weapon? Did they even listen to ANY of the complaints about the CU when coming up with the NGE? Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Experimentation is completely gone from crafting, and all crafters do in the NGE is assemble looted components.
I think this is exactly what is going to happen. great resources, SEAs, experimental know-how will be gone, fill in tge slot with whatever hit enter will be the new way. i'll be making my own response to this thread and travesty soon here. need to collect my thoughts, as i have a few choice words to say
Message Edited by Implementor on 11-03-2005 12:48 AM
ShugFlurry
Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:06 pm
#63
Munitionsmaster wrote:
My advice to all current WS who are staying:
Grind, make and stockpile all the weapons from all the resources you have for the next couple weeks. When the times comes go full combatant. You can still be a merchant with the stockpile and get the benefits of once being some one who helped your community.... *Crys*
You sir are a psychic, Munitionsmaster, isnt that what the title is post-nge?
StrandedonEarth
Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:14 pm
#64
Well Crys, I guess you won't be asked to make any more ABLL grinding kits for FS crafting grinders, assuming you made any more after my batch. I kept the pack labelled "This is the End!!", but now I think I'll move it to the front door of my shop.
Village getting removed, so what happens to all the FS skills people earned? What a waste of time for the Devs that put the village together. I actually thought the village was one of the better features in the game, although I'll understand if people thought it could use a little tweaking.
Only 2 stats on weaopns, I assume scopes will be useless then? No HAM/SAC cost, or is that gonna be a fixed value for each type of weapon?
I sure am glad I didn't buy TOOW. I was getting bored of the game anyways, and while it sounds like the new combat system could fix that, the dumbing down of other parts of the game and the backhanded way it's being presented more than negates that.
Does this mean the people that were responsible for the failed CU all got fired?
Munitionsmaster
Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:41 pm
#65
ShugFlurry wrote:
Munitionsmaster wrote:
My advice to all current WS who are staying:
Grind, make and stockpile all the weapons from all the resources you have for the next couple weeks. When the times comes go full combatant. You can still be a merchant with the stockpile and get the benefits of once being some one who helped your community.... *Crys*
You sir are a psychic, Munitionsmaster, isnt that what the title is post-nge?
Lol...ya.... 
*crys*
I picked it because I knew I wanted to be a Weaponsmith fromthey day I came to SWG. Now I will leave the profession Iso dearlylove. Will use my respec token after my stock pile and then be a WS no more.