Weaponsmith Archive

Thread: Logix: Care to address this?

Reldun
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:48 pm
#40






Logix wrote:

1.) Responses are not that fast. If a post ina Pipeline thread designed to get immediate responses, combined with separate posts made from other Correspondents on the same issues do not receive a response within a week, it's unlikely that waving a gigantic "FIX THIS" banner in front of Thunderheart would have gotten us a response. Moreover, that thread isn't that long; it's barely just three posts into two-pages-long. You are going to have to be more reasonable in your expectations. As I said, it's all up to SOE to determine how quickly they are going to answer these questions. If you want them to give us answers quickly, you're going to have to take it up with them.


2.) We cannot say it's not cheating because we don't know it's not cheating. Bear in mind, cheating is not what Weaponsmiths determine, it's what Developers determine. It's for that same reason that I'm not encouraging people to run out and try to make these schematics, I don't want a fire lit up if it turns out that the Developers consider it an exploit.


3.) I made no personal insults. I did not call you full of poo, I did not call you a slack..rear, I didn't call you a nincompoop or a meaniehead. Though, I do suggest that the more constructive you are yourself and the more reasonable your claims, the better response you will receive. You also chose to bring this to the public, I did not.


4.) I've noticed developers are less likely to read a flamewar, so I try to avoid inciting one in the Correspondent forums. Bad mojo.


5.) It was implied, I defended it. Perhaps I misread, sorry.








1) How fast was your reply to me? I asked you directly...I climbed into your rear end directly and you responded directly. Maybe you shoud try this tact on the corr. forum.


2) Another player can not say it is cheating. BUT they are. Again, perception...maybe you think its wrong...doesn't matter...a very simple "this is how it currently works"...would have shut that thread down. You are right...the dev's decide what is cheating and what isn't...but they do listen to arguements...and you did not give a counterpoint...you let another player badmouth us and get away with it.


3) You called me a propagandist...heh and meant it in a bad way. I am ex-military...so I am blunt..my wording is blunt. I do not believe in writing three sentances when one will suffice. If I use foul language it is to get people's attention. I am not attmpting to insult you personally, nor to insuate things about your personal life. I am only referring directly to what I see and describing things as I see them. Right now things are FUBAR....look it up if you dont know what that means...


4) Will touch on this at the end.


5) Apology accepted...we got off topic...thats not what this thread was about...



Ok now:


I feel we are making progress


You are starting to show me some fire. Which is good. I think I might have pissed you off a tad...which in this case is also good. What I am asking for you to do with this, is while you are thinking I am a tool that is just here to poke you in the eye, go back into the correspondent forum and use the exact same emotion and rational that you have used to deal with me and deal with TH. Correct the jedi correspondent..explian to him how current schems work. You don't have to agree with me with the crate situation but at the very least can't you start a ne wthread to get TH's attention like I did here to get yours? Can't you tell him that while you are in favor of the change spme of us smiths aren't and explain to him why? Neither of us are devs...TH is the middle man...explain to him why some of us are pissed off. Quote some of the posts in the 9 page thread. I am not asking you to do anything more than what your job requires. ANd yes, I guess I am accusing you of falling short on this particular topic....c'mon...you can't honestly think you have worked as hard as you can on this up to this point...don't say that...you know it's not true.

Message Edited by Reldun on 02-19-2004 12:51 AM



Reldurpa
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Longest running MWS of Flurry... 12 point smith... yadda... all that good stuff.
Redguard
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:51 pm
#41

Obviously some one has a bug up ones behind:


What real issue are you getting at Reldun? I mean you've dance around with the problems and voiced your complaints. It appears that you're not over getting shafted by the crated FWG5 issue (If it even is an issue)Now you take offense to someone pointing out that a flaw in the game may be a potential dupe. So how should Logix react? Declare flame war on the correspondent in question or bully TH into giving him word ona decision that probably hasn't been made yet?


It just seems to be that nobody has a handle on this problem yet but rather than trying to seek a solution you want to cast blame. Sure, Logix did himself no favors by stating his opinion on the crated gun issue but you know what he's not a minority. The crated FWG5's were broken and detrimental to the game so now they may be gone and I say good riddance. I could care less that you had all this income potential sitting in crates around your house. You took a risk when you hoarded them. You played the game and the devs ended it. Even I don't like the way they ended it but I do so much enjoy the outcome.


If this were any other game those guns would have been gone the day of the nerf. Unfortunately the devs here try to play nice and folks like you crap all over them for it. Had they been hardasses and rendered the guns ineffective on nerf day then hell we wouldn't be in this fix now would we. You wouldnt be bitching about your uberguns/buttloads of credits being taken away because you wouldnt have had the opportunity to play the game you've been playing.


Jester has a right to voice this concern and I for one wasn't expecting an answer right away. I'm not even sure if the dev's have decided what to do. On one hand it's a good idea for craftersto have the ability to mass produce these items. The problem is that it cheapens the gaming experience for the combat characters. They're expecting to get something rare and unusual. If these guns can be mass produced then they are neither rare or unusual.


You're criticism of Logix has been far from fair. It's fairly obvious that you didn't even read some of his responses to other players who had similar questions. I can also think of no other correspondent that has had a crappier weekend with everyone fuming about the FWG5 issue. He deserves credit for not telling us all probably what he thinks of a number of us by now.That iscalled profesionalism Reldun and he's exhibited it in spades. With us it's called common courtesy, something that you're sorely lacking.






Given the choice between style over substance. I'll take a sandwich.
Logix
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:51 pm
#42






Reldun wrote:
What took you so long to say that? I hope you said it in the correspndent forum as well...thats the first thing I have heard you say on this that makes sense, thanks for agreeing with me...to an extent atleast.




In that 9-page-long thread, all I did was provide a justification for why the Developers would have done this, just like I did in this thread, because it was asked. People were questioning why they could have done thisto them and I provided possible explanations. That doesn't mean I don't think the way they went about it was right, but I do feel they did have a reason behind doing it. It wasn't just five guys sitting at a round-table trying to decide the best way to piss off Weaponsmiths, which would probably warrant throwing in the towel.They probably thought it was a measure that they needed to take for the better of the game. However, some folk read that as "personal bias getting in the way of your job" and such nonsense, when it wasn't. I just felt that there was probably a good reason they had for doing this when everyone else assumed they had no reason. That does not mean I am conspiring against you, I am just promoting alternative discussion that many people might have overlooked in the situation.


Some sort of free Holocron or something should have appeared in your inventory though, at the very least. But as I said, this issue is made even more pertinent when the looted schematic thing is brought into consideration, with the idea that "they did it once, they can do it again." Neither of these problems are a low-priority for me, in fact, I think the Developers are aware of both of them. It's just a matter of them taking five minutes out to post and say, "Hey, this is what's going to happen." If it's not responded to in the next couple of days, I'll post another post in the new Pipeline thread and a separate new thread requesting they look at the damn post already and give me an answer.

LLJK_Griz
Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:10 pm
#43

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=33119&page=10


TH says it's a bug and they're having meetings next week to figure out how to fix it, so the crates should be fixed or we get reimbursed sometime in the next two months. They get around to things, they just take forever.


2) anyone who knows anything about crafting knows that it is not a dupe, and whining about it is a pointless waste of everyone's time


3) if they didn't screw up the forums, no one would have read CorrDisc and no one would be making these ridiculous demands. lay off the correspondents and let them do their jobs instead of trying to force them to post garbage in their forum.



POKEY THE PENGUIN SIG REMOVED BY GARVA BECAUSE "Just because you are crafty enough to get around the technicality of it being a .jpg or .gif does not mean it is not an image, it is not ascii art, it is an image" SO HERE IS MY NEW SIG.
HUGE UGLY SIG
CaLVines
Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:05 pm
#44

Edit:

Logix is not our main issue now. The upcoming experimentation changes are.

Logix, no matter if the accusations here were right or wrong, this is your chance to proof us all that your are a good correspondant

Message Edited by CaLVines on 02-20-2004 12:00 PM

boceifus2000
Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:28 pm
#45


"3) if they didn't screw up the forums, no one would have read CorrDisc and no one would be making these ridiculous demands. lay off the correspondents and let them do their jobs instead of trying to force them to post garbage in their forum."


That's the whole problem. They DID screw up the forumns and now the cat is out of the bag. The only correspondants that intrest me are the WS and Pistoleer. Since the mistake was made with the forumns we found out some truths about what is(or not) going on.It is hard to "let" somebody do their job when they arent' doing it.



Colonel Boceifus Gadian (BotD)
Retired
Quote: I have seen too much death in my lifetime...

Balanor Gadian
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LLJK_Griz
Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:07 pm
#46

The rifleman correspondent says: To correspond on behalf of a profession has little to do with the correspondent "forum". Those forums are basically for updates and debates between the correspondents. 90% of all official corresponding is handled in PMs or out of game E-mail. There is also another section called Correspondent Delevopement which is where Devs speak one on one with each Correspondent.



POKEY THE PENGUIN SIG REMOVED BY GARVA BECAUSE "Just because you are crafty enough to get around the technicality of it being a .jpg or .gif does not mean it is not an image, it is not ascii art, it is an image" SO HERE IS MY NEW SIG.
HUGE UGLY SIG
Messerboii
Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:17 am
#47

I'm afraid I'll have to go along with Logix on this one. I think they've done a fairly good job, putting a lot of time and effort into attempting to make weaponsmithing better for all of us. Let me remind you Reldun, that this is a game. And ONLY a game. The fact that Logix does put in the time, earns my respect. None of the correspondents need to, its not their fault the game is in such sorry shape, its the developers and managment. Not the volunteers, I mean really. Its like blaming the manager of a franchise store, for having a crappy product, when the head office won't send them anything BUT that product. The correspondents are a go-between for the public and another go-between. Of course its not going to be a perfect system.


People need to either relax, pay the lowly $0.50 per day and enjoy the game, or move on. Name calling and accusations do nothing but hinder progress and waste time and energy, as this thread has done. I hope to never see one like this again in the WS forum.


Cheers Logix.




Sarhyn
DarthClaimore
Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:15 am
#48



I've read every post in the thread, both parties (the only parties that matter anyway) have both been respectful to each other. It did not degenerate into the usual flame war, this is probably what has kept most trolls out of the mix, most of the usuals didn't have the attention span to read what was really being said, so they decided to troll on a different thread.


Since the "argument" seems to be over, I am anxiously awaiting results.


My only troll comment is... If Reldurpa found access to a forum that he/she knew wasn't supposed to be accessed by them, were they exploiting by entering said forum and reading the messages that were never intended to be read by anyone but correspondents and developers?


Your honor, this has nothing to do directly with this case, but goes toward credibility.


EEMAN
Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:18 am
#49

enough with the he said she said's. I need the following from my corrospondent


1) a NEW post asking point blank and as BLUNT as possible that asks if this is even a silent nerf or a bug. TH claims it is a bug and the chefs are getting the exact same email message when they try and pull food.


2) a NEW post in the corrospondent forum with the topic of 'Featherweight Dupe' and just merely state that it is not a 'dupe'. That choise of word is incorrect and prompts bannings when in fact the crux of the issue is that currently the looted schematic gives the option to generate a factory schematic and it is currently unknown if this is by design or not.



now i will explain #1 because someone pointed the arguement of a mail message they receive. On some of those cheating websites that run forums theres a bunch of complaining of getting this same message whenever they tried to access weapons in which they made a schematic with a non-serialized krayt tissue so that they could upgrade their current tissues (this bug is fixed however old crates were still around and I do recall a dev mentioning trying to remove these from the game). IT is completely possible that whatever program logic that flags this function in the running game code could be spilling onto crates of other items for whatever reason .. thereby making pre-nerf weapons and other chef foods give this email that was intended for some other items entirely. Thats merely a possibility should this turn out to be a bug as to how it could be a bug and yet you get an email about it.




Omosack
Master Weaponsmith
Master Shipwright
Better Homes and Guns - in the Chilastra Galaxy

- It's time the devs end the bitter fighting by giving the community a Non Jedi server. We have a few servers with TINY populations that could be changed to this ruleset. I support this idea because it punishes noone. - You can support it too. Click Here!
Ikour
Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:07 am
#50

^ That there about sums it up. So the pistoleer corrspondent went and made a fuss about it. Great. How come it's not fixed yet?If he's doing such a great job and Logix is doing a terrible one for not yelling and screaming about it, where are the results? If you want to demand something from someone, it's not a good idea to do it to someone who can tell you to *edit* off any time they please and have zero negative results from it. It's better to be nice to those people usually.



Ikour


MonroeThanes
Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:55 am
#51

i am appalled that logix let the jedi corespondent get away with accusing us of cheating. its ridiculous to allow that to happen. its a very serrious charge to level at someone, especially when the one bringing the charges doesnt understand what he is talking about (need i remind us all of congress's "Golden Fleece Award"?).


logix you should step down because of this, when you allow a colleague to accuse us of cheating then your not serving the weaponsmith comunity. Iwould likea recall, we need a new corespondent since the current one obviously doesnt care about the people she is representing.



I'm Monroe Thanes and I approve of this message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Democrat! They've got a traitor and an ambulance chaser this time around!
Ikour
Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:11 am
#52

I hardly think the devs will hold people making schematics out of those schematics against us for one very simple reason. They never forbade it in any way before the schematics came out. When most master weaponsmiths make a weapon, they make a schematic. Same for any other crafting profession. It was never specifically forbidden, and the jedi correspondent was obviously talking about something (weaponsmithing) he knows nothing about. I can't imagine the devs are clueless about their own game and how it is played. They know that it isn't duping. They may have overlooked a small detail when releasing the schematics, but they are busy people. At worst, your schematics for these weapons will prove as useless as old FWG5s. Stop acting as if Logix did something wrong by not getting into a childish argument with someone who didn't have a clue what they were talking about.


Ikour


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