Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Logix: Care to address this?
Ikour wrote:
Being a new weaponsmith, I am unaffected by this, but I thought I'd weigh in after reading it all.
1. You can't just bug the devs over and over and overuntil they do something. Most of the time, that gets you ignored really really fast. I think Logix has it right waiting for a response. If she were to demand one over and over, it would either A. make it longer in coming or B. make the devs much less likely to listen to anything she says in the future or C. both A and B.
2. If she did take a stance along the lines of "you guys will have to deal with this", it's probably because that is the one truth here. No matter what you say or do, the devs will make their decision based on the information presented to them. Your excessive buying of prenerf FWGs won't sway them. Your arguments won't. The arguments ofevery other weaponsmith, including our correspondant, won't. Their decision is final, so all affected will have to deal with it. Just like those of us (including me) who have characters with 2 combat profs will have to deal with the defenses not stacking. If you can't handle it, quit. I can see where they could have repaid you in some way for the inconvenience. Other than that, they are doing the right thing for game balance.
3. On the issue of all this loot being better than what we make....I don't like it, but I understand it. If all the components you needed for advanced parts and advanced guns spawned regularly with great stats, we would have everyone runing around with uber weapons and there woud be no balance whatsoever. You have to wait it out, check for good resources every so often, and get the best you can. Becoming a master isn't the hard part, it's tracking down those really good resources and getting them while you can. I was lucky and fell into a lot of great materials, but I am constantly on the lookout for better, hopping planets and just opening up survey tools to see if anything useful may have spawned. Uber loot is great and all, but I'd rather go out and get some good materials I can rely on.
Ikour
1. Actually that is exaclty what you do. How do you think it gets changed in the first place?
2. Exactly...my thinking is that it was done on purpose...hence the e-mail if changes. If they change it back they will declare it a bug that they fix. If it was an adjustment they felt the need to make, they will make a statemnet about a month from now...they are waiting to see how pissed off we are by it at this point.
3. they are adding loot drop compnents just a hair lower than what can currently be crafted, yo tell me when does it stop...diffferent conversation for a differnent thread...my guess is without some hardline protesting, master carbein guys will be taking weaponsmith so the can slap thier weapons together a month from now.
I have played my master weaponsmith a grand total of about 30 minutes since last Friday. I kind of lost interest. Why bother with "new schematics" when they'll just be stealth nerfed anyway, and the smith correspondent will just say "deal with it", and call me an exploiting loser or something. I really think there is a large TRUST component to all this, something the new smiths should think about, and I guess Logix in a round-about way is starting to agree. Though not doing much about it.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
You can add which ever name to "Mr. Madison" you'd like, even mine I don't care, but I think that quote sums up what this thread has turned into.
I think many of you are making too big a deal over this, and if it is really bothering you that bad, sit back and think why you play this game, and if it is affecting your thoughts to be upset over a silly issue, maybe you should stop.
Every game I've played I played for fun, the second I would get upset over a change and let it leak to the boards or to other people, I did the best thing I could do to make a point. I quit and stopped giving them my money.
and Logix, keep yer chin up, you are doing a good job maintaina calm and cool head here. I was in your shoes for a different game, so I know exactly what you're going through. Just keep up the good work, and dont let those who have no idea what you go through to get the Devs listen get you down.
Reldun wrote:
Bottom line, Logix slacked, I am hoping I have lit enough of a fire under them to get the job done....that is probably inflammatory..oh well.
You should consider having Wepps campaign for Weaponsmith Correspondent then.
MordeusCorporis wrote:
My question is why? Why stop guns rightfully made from being used in the game? They would have decayed on there own over time just like the T-21's first made that were overpowered. I don't remeber reading anywhere that you can't possess or keep crates of nerfed guns so whats this talk about we were warned?
I think the vast majority of the Live servers still could not make T21s at the time the T21 nerf occured, due to resource limitations. Additionally, those few servers that did have the resources still did not have T21s in such wide abundance, because they were so resource-intensive. So being that T21s were so scarce, it probably would have been overkill for them to waste time to code in a pre-nerf-T21-nerf.
As for why they did it with FWG5s, et al, we can only speculate. These weapons were different, because they were made during a time in which the economies of most servers were plentiful and rich in high-quality resources. And these weapons weren't hard to make like the T21, meaning it's no heavy feat for one smith to stockpile thousands of these weapons in preparation for the nerf.
So, there's a ton of these weapons still in circulation and the question arises about new Weaponsmiths and the disadvantage they have. They weren't present back before these weapons were nerfed, so they don't have the opportunity to get an edge on their business with pre-nerf weapons. They can't compete with unsliced FWG5s that have 30 max damage over theirs, making it a pretty limited market. Of course, this is just speculation; this could all be an unintentional bug caused by a missed line of code.
The problem with them doing this is not just the lack of player reimbursals, it's the fear that they'll do it again. Like with these looted schematics, if they suddenly decide they don't want us making so many of these guns and prevent us from opening those crates. Which is why the schematics issue is so important, to prevent Weaponsmiths from losing thousandsof resources and potential businessas a result of an unanswered question.
Thx for your response on some of my questions. On your point that this might be a missed line of code and an unitentional bug, No way! The email messgae you get when you try to remove an item is specific and intentionally put there. The Devs knew what they were doing when they did this. Be there no doubt about that.
Are you going to bring this issue to the devs to address since so many ppl are effected by this and quite upset?
As for new weaponsmiths being effected, ;ets face the facts. It's 3 guns out of almost 40. I'm sure new weaponsmiths won't be impacted in an adverse way over this. These items will decay over time no matter how many are still in game. They've been in game for the last 8 months and the games been just fine I'm sure the game can survive an few more months with this gun still in the game.
Logix wrote:
MordeusCorporis wrote:
My question is why? Why stop guns rightfully made from being used in the game? They would have decayed on there own over time just like the T-21's first made that were overpowered. I don't remeber reading anywhere that you can't possess or keep crates of nerfed guns so whats this talk about we were warned?
I think the vast majority of the Live servers still could not make T21s at the time the T21 nerf occured, due to resource limitations. Additionally, those few servers that did have the resources still did not have T21s in such wide abundance, because they were so resource-intensive. So being that T21s were so scarce, it probably would have been overkill for them to waste time to code in a pre-nerf-T21-nerf.
As for why they did it with FWG5s, et al, we can only speculate. These weapons were different, because they were made during a time in which the economies of most servers were plentiful and rich in high-quality resources. And these weapons weren't hard to make like the T21, meaning it's no heavy feat for one smith to stockpile thousands of these weapons in preparation for the nerf.
So, there's a ton of these weapons still in circulation and the question arises about new Weaponsmiths and the disadvantage they have. They weren't present back before these weapons were nerfed, so they don't have the opportunity to get an edge on their business with pre-nerf weapons. They can't compete with unsliced FWG5s that have 30 max damage over theirs, making it a pretty limited market. Of course, this is just speculation; this could all be an unintentional bug caused by a missed line of code.
The problem with them doing this is not just the lack of player reimbursals, it's the fear that they'll do it again. Like with these looted schematics, if they suddenly decide they don't want us making so many of these guns and prevent us from opening those crates. Which is why the schematics issue is so important, to prevent Weaponsmiths from losing thousandsof resources and potential businessas a result of an unanswered question.
Now then...can you set aside personal bias and move forward to get us an answer on this? TH mentioned something vaguely the other day about chef crates...he is always vague...because generally he doesn't know unless someone else tells him first. That last paragraph whether you meant it as such sums up the entire nine pages...there is a dividing line...new smiths who felt they couldn't compete with the prepatch weapons....vs. old smiths who had them PLUS new smiths who realize that by opening this door they are unleashing pandora's box...it sets a precendent that anything can change at any given time.
It seems to me, and I might be wrong...although the evidence supports my theory...you support the newer smiths that are unhappy trying to compete in the established market. I don't think some of you get it though...I was the 5th master on my server....the other 4 smiths? no longer around...one of them is back after a 3 month break. Resources change....smiths stop smithing...but some of the new smiths want to change things...they don't seem to realise eventually they will be the old smiths. You can bet on the fact that eventually there will be some more weapons added and when they are you will be making them just as good as anyone else, and thanks to this change, they will yanked away from you just like these fw's, scatters, and launchers were yanked away from us. I hope the correspondent who is in charge then has the moral fiber to ask why it happened.
Message Edited by Reldun on 02-19-2004 12:26 AM
Reldun wrote:
1) get some dev answers to the crate issue...not your opinions...actually post a few times and remind them its an issue
2) dont let other correspondents openly accuse us of cheating and do nothign to correct them
3) learn to take some criticism without throwing out personal insults.
4) If you can climb into my ass and argue with me you can argue on the correspndent forum...or can you only argue when it deosnt count?
5) Stick to the topic of arguement ans stop trying to change it...never said you tried to get schems nerfed...so lets stay on topic hmk?
1.) Responses are not that fast. If a post ina Pipeline thread designed to get immediate responses, combined with separate posts made from other Correspondents on the same issues do not receive a response within a week, it's unlikely that waving a gigantic "FIX THIS" banner in front of Thunderheart would have gotten us a response. Moreover, that thread isn't that long; it's barely just three posts into two-pages-long. You are going to have to be more reasonable in your expectations. As I said, it's all up to SOE to determine how quickly they are going to answer these questions. If you want them to give us answers quickly, you're going to have to take it up with them.
2.) We cannot say it's not cheating because we don't know it's not cheating. Bear in mind, cheating is not what Weaponsmiths determine, it's what Developers determine. It's for that same reason that I'm not encouraging people to run out and try to make these schematics, I don't want a fire lit up if it turns out that the Developers consider it an exploit.
3.) I made no personal insults. I did not call you full of poo, I did not call you a slack..rear, I didn't call you a nincompoop or a meaniehead. Though, I do suggest that the more constructive you are yourself and the more reasonable your claims, the better response you will receive. You also chose to bring this to the public, I did not.
4.) I've noticed developers are less likely to read a flamewar, so I try to avoid inciting one in the Correspondent forums. Bad mojo.
5.) It was implied, I defended it. Perhaps I misread, sorry.
Damn people give the guy a break. None of you have any idea of the responsibility entitled to being a representitive for a very large body of people to a very small body of people (reading all the posts and deciding whats important etc). May i point out that Logix is correct in assuming that the fewer and more direct messages the better. The devs will know to take him seriously if he is not constantly nagging them for every little issue that people get their panties in a wad about. You need to remember also that this is in fact a GAME, and to question ones competance over a single thread that was later disreguardedis completly ignorant. I assume logix cannot speak his mind to you folks being his position, but if i were him i would hold up the fingers inbetween the thumb and pinky and ask you to read between the lines.
*this is the last post i will make on this thread feel free to flame me all you want, you will just be proving your stupidity*