Weaponsmith Archive

As being a master smuggler on one character and a ws on my other. I can tell you this I was working for an armorsmith (I know not a ws but kinda the same). He paid me 2k per slice. Most of the time it was about 900+ per setting. Then out of the blue he asked me if I wanted more cash and so I didn't turn it down (I think he was getting burnt out on stocking vendors and what not with sliced stuff) so he started paying me 5k per slice.

So in your case I would say dicuss a price with a smuggler and agree on it. If they get that super 35% damage slice perhaps throw them a bouns of a couple g's. Alot of us smugglers are in the profession for the profession not the money.

Hope it helps.

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Lurax wrote:

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Grisbilen wrote:

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Lurax wrote:

pay them WELL. Give them free krayt pistols. Cherish your smuggler(s) because slicing is the most boring and mundane activity you can think of and a bulk slicer with any staying power is practically non-existant.

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Did you master your crafting profession without grinding? in that case: /salute

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no, I ground my ass off for my title. And I'm grinding FS crafting as well.

But grinding has an end in sight, and once you reach the light at the end of the tunnel, you're done for good, and better off for it. Slicing is pure grinding, with no end in sight. Just more grinding for more chump change. Ask yourself if you'd be willing to spend an hour crafting and only make 200k. Considering an hour of crafting usually translates into millions for us (tens of millions for some of us /chuckle), I think it's retardedly arrogant to suggest a smuggler is being greedy for wanting more than a pittance for his toils.

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An hour grinding? In what way, shape, or form does it take an hour to slice a few crates? When I still had smuggler I would slice crates of 25 in a few minutes... Radial, click the selection and hit enter thru 3 windows, drop item in either speed or damage slice pack. This takes about 6 seconds when you get in a groove, maybe 10 now that you have to take the stuff out of crates. And anybody that thinks about 2800 worth of profit per 10 seconds (can use grinding materials on smuggler tools since quality doesn't matter) is too little to get them on a shuttle is just nuts...

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MrSensitive wrote:

Ha, touched a nerve eh?

My time is worth more than yours, and that is fine with me

I sell mediocre slices on my own sliced weapons vendor at 10k over the base price of the item, and I sell them frequently. It is unfortunate that we can't choose whether we want a speed or damage slice, but that is hardly the fault of the smuggler. It seems like people just get all pi$$y when they can't whip out a calculator and know precisely what numbers they are going to end up generating prior to shelling out their paltry sum for my time.

10k per slice, if you don't like it (I will forego explaining the reasoning) you can feel free to waste time trying to find another smuggler who will do it for 5k or 3k.

Time is credits and less than 10k isn't worth my time. Slicing is extremely important to combat as it stands now, and the people doing that slicing are _not_ properly compensated. For any current smugglers that are reading, give it a shot. Start charging 10k per single slice and work deals from there. Add morons to your ignore list that don't believe it is worth it and you will enjoy your game time more. Half the tells, twice the money and none of the frustration.

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You touched a nerve with your arrogant tripe like that.

It takes maybe 3 minutes to find a smuggler willing to slice for 5k or less...hate to burst your bubble.

And you don't explain your reasoning because I already ripped it up just above...didn't you read it? Probably not since you still feel justified.

No service is worth 250k for at most 5-10 minutes at most...especially not one that requires no skill, no preparation, and no overhead. Get a clue. Better yet, just try and make it as an AS/WS/Doc/Chef and find out what a real service to the benefit of combat is. I'm sure you'd be banned from every vendor on your server and get no contracts if you told your suppliers that your time slicing was worth more than theirs crafting.

I only wish that smugglers could make money smuggling (as it should be) so your kind would stop complaining about the honest smugglers that slice for a reasonable amount by saying that they're hacks and undercutting the market.

Also notice that your little plea for attention and probably support on the smuggler forum only got you smugglers saying that 5k would be the max, and that 10k is absurd...lol Guess that little ploy backfired, eh?

Message Edited by MrSensitive on 10-29-2004 09:35 AM

Fringe benefits is something to consider too.

The weaponsmith I am slicing for, he keep me stocked up on WUK and AUK (not only thoses I need for the contract, he keep me stocked up on them, period) and on ressources needed for the tools he can't make (molecular clamps and laser precision knives). His reasoning is, since thoses are not affected by the quality of the ressources and he always have a lot of low quality ressources gathering dust, he is helping me and himself.

So, not only what he is paying me is for my time, pure profit for me, but what I charge others for slicing is 100% profit too since I do not pay for my tools. In the long run, it is a BIG fringe benefit.

Then he pay me according to the slicing level. x for a below 20% slice, y for a between 20% and 29% slice, and z for a 30%+ slice. I will let him talk about precise numbers if he so choose, do not feel it is my place to do so.

Message Edited by LaughingWolf on 10-29-2004 10:23 AM

First off, you should know that your initial argument holds no water. Relativism doesn't work. By the same measure I could come up with an argument for stealing from or killing innocent people and say that just because my reasoning doesn't match yours doesn't mean that it's less valid. When there are two opposing views, one is correct. Since you went this route when I pressed you instead of coming up with a valid counter point, simply shows that you likely don't have one...as I pointed out.

On the issue of skill, perhaps this definition will demonstrate what I was talking about.

"The familiar knowledge of any art or science, united with readiness and dexterity in execution or performance, or in the application of the art or science to practical purposes; power to discern and execute; ability to perceive and perform; expertness; aptitude; as, the skill of a mathematician, physician, surgeon, mechanic, etc."

You may not think of it as skill, but a good WS spends many hours and a great deal of resources researching methods of experimentation, how different stats will work in different items (example: when one of the resources doesn't have a critical stat, it seems to become more important for the others), how much weapon HAM customers are willing to put up with for higher range mods, etc. I might even say that I don't consider ability at a twitch based game like JTL to constitute skill since there is little that can be learned to sharpen it. It's mostly a matter of youth and reflexes. Not much to boast about...though youth will often tend to boast about youth... Learning to experiment advanced weapon stocks on your own and creating a 0.32/40-40 stock after about an hour of attempts on the other hand...hell, I still have fun pointing it out to a friend that can't get his above 35-35...

Finally, on the matter of overhead...did I read that right...did you call AUKs and WUKs hard to come by? Your 10k per slice isn't enough to pull the crates of 25 for 3k off the bazaar or vendor? Keep reaching, I'm sure you can come up with something better than that. Otherwise you might just want to let this one die...

Oh, and to maybe help you wrap your head around things...here's an example of why the mission grinding doesn't factor in. Would you pay a cardiac surgeon $50,000 to change the oil in your car because that's what he could make doing a surgery? No? Didn't think so. And as for being entitled to more because of the cost of the weapon...do you charge less to slice newbie calamari's first DH-17 carbine that he bought for 2.5k on bazaar? Oh, that's right...you put him on ignore...guess that means no. I could run business like that too, but I have this thing called a conscience that keeps me from trying to steal off into the night with as much as I can get a hold of... You may have millions more, but I feel good knowing that I run an honest business and don't take advantage of people when I may be the only smuggler around.

Message Edited by MrSensitive on 10-29-2004 11:02 AM

Message Edited by MrSensitive on 10-29-2004 11:42 AM

Just wondering...what part of innocent didn't you understand? It seems that you don't understand what relativism means either, so let me educate you on that one too.

"A theory, especially in ethics or aesthetics, that conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute but are relative to the persons or groups holding them."

This is the sort of argument that people use to justify murder of the innocent by bringing up ritual killings and tribal warfare in places like southeast Asia and Africa. It's a good example of where you get when you cut loose from reality and argue in abstracts. Thank you, but I guess I'll just be the ignorant one that believes in you right to live regardless of relativist arguments that could be leveled to show otherwise. Oh, and calling me ignorant while altering my argument and repeating your belief in relativism is not a valid counterpoint...sorry...

As for throwing in the insult, it still doesn't change the fact that your objection to my original comment on skill was refuted by the very definition of the word. Researching and working at making better products is just like learning about the design of an engine and working at servicing it in the example. In a twitch game like JTL without a real base map with terrain advantages and the such to learn to use to your advantage, it's pretty much completely about raw reflexes...nothing to tune or practice...either you have it or you don't. That's actually why I suspect JTL will be short lived for most people... It's very one-dimentional

As for the example being idiotic...I would think that even an idiot would be able to figure it out...perhaps I need to explain. If that surgeon is qualified to both operate on your heart and change the oil in your car (though I didn't know changing oil required a qualification), just as you are both able to run missions for money and slice items, then should his possible income in the operating room be reflected in offering the different service of changing oil? The answer (I would hope) is of course not.

Actually, is seems like now I touched a nerve... But my time still isn't worth more than yours. If you can get away with overcharging and not have it weigh on you, go for it. Just don't go calling the rest of us chumps for not wanting to rip people off. That's not giving equal weight to our side of the issue if we choose to charge less, and thus not being a good relativist. And before you try it, I have no problem with saying that you're wrong since I've been saying this whole time that relativism is BS.

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MrSensitive wrote:

LaughingWolf:

That is a great way to do business too. Basically it comes down to playing however you like. My guidelines (emphasis on my) are fairly black and white but for people I know and certainly for friends, deals like that are great. I just don't want to haggle with every "joe bag o' donuts" off the street that wants to work special deals for WUKs if I slice half a crate of weapons.

Other people have posted that they will let the smuggler pick a couple weapons/armor pieces from the lot in exchange for their services, offer resources, tip extra for a desirable slice etc etc. Again, for me this is all case by case and I will do it for the in game people that I like. I am not unreasonable, just stubborn

My black and white rules apply to this scenario.

Potential Customer: "I need 3 pistols sliced"

me : "10k per, where are you?"

Angry customer: "what? that is totally f$%$$ unreasonable! I paid 2k yesterday!"

me: "/addignore"

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Message Edited by MrSensitive on 10-29-2004 11:02 AM

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But of course, you do business as you see fit, and a custommer who start swearing and cursing at me when I give him/her my prices would get added quick on my ignore list too.

And yes, the weaponsmith I work with is a friend. I think that having set prices for the general public is good (with maybe a set discount price for guildies, etc), but that for long term contracts, it is definitively case by case. I know very well that the deal I have with my friend suit me, and him, very fine, but might not fit another smuggler, or weaponsmith.

Message Edited by LaughingWolf on 10-29-2004 01:05 PM

Message Edited by MrSensitive on 10-29-2004 01:26 PM