Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: How much should I pay for a slicing contract?
Page 4 of 4
Lurax
Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:12 am
#40
TheLemming wrote:
An hour grinding? In what way, shape, or form does it take an hour to slice a few crates? When I still had smuggler I would slice crates of 25 in a few minutes... Radial, click the selection and hit enter thru 3 windows, drop item in either speed or damage slice pack. This takes about 6 seconds when you get in a groove, maybe 10 now that you have to take the stuff out of crates. And anybody that thinks about 2800 worth of profit per 10 seconds (can use grinding materials on smuggler tools since quality doesn't matter) is too little to get them on a shuttle is just nuts...
Lurax wrote:
Grisbilen wrote:
Lurax wrote:
pay them WELL. Give them free krayt pistols. Cherish your smuggler(s) because slicing is the most boring and mundane activity you can think of and a bulk slicer with any staying power is practically non-existant.
Did you master your crafting profession without grinding? in that case: /salute
no, I ground my ass off for my title. And I'm grinding FS crafting as well.
But grinding has an end in sight, and once you reach the light at the end of the tunnel, you're done for good, and better off for it. Slicing is pure grinding, with no end in sight. Just more grinding for more chump change. Ask yourself if you'd be willing to spend an hour crafting and only make 200k. Considering an hour of crafting usually translates into millions for us (tens of millions for some of us /chuckle), I think it's retardedly arrogant to suggest a smuggler is being greedy for wanting more than a pittance for his toils.
you haven't done slicing recently have you? It doesn't automatically use clamps, knives, and kits from the crate anymore, you have to decrate the weapons, then decrate each tool, then slice. You run into inventory issues when slicing more than 15 or so (and that's if you're inventory's empty). I've been borrowing a friend's smuggler account to slice my own stuff, it's not fun, it's time consuming, and there's no way in hell I'd be willing to do it for 5k a slice. Doing janta missions is more fun, with better pay, and the chance of decent loot now and then.
It's kinda like armorsmiths wanting to be stubborn about what they offer for wooly hide. Sure maybe you can convince all the other armorsmiths to pay less and lower the accepted price of hide all over the server.....but then all the rangers/hunters are gonna get meat for docs instead and you've damaged your entire profession and lost valuable suppliers.
It took me about an hour to slice 5 crates of T21s...I'll be making a couple million more from the damage sliced guns than I would have by selling them unsliced, soI deemed it worth my time. However, for 400k or whatever you guys are suggesting a smuggler *should* make for this work, I can't see it being worth my time.
MrSensitive
Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:27 am
#41
That is spoken like a surgeon coming out to change my oil. 
I mean that in a good way Lurax (in case you haven't been reading the essays on philosophy that Lemming and I have been babbling on in).
I mean that in a good way Lurax (in case you haven't been reading the essays on philosophy that Lemming and I have been babbling on in). Time is worth something, and it is worth a great deal more than quite a few people are willing to pay.
TheLemming
Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:38 pm
#42
I simply used dictionary.com because it seemed like you were having trouble with what the words meant...so far you finally seem to have come around to the fact that crafting does include the factors listed to define skill, and smuggler does not. We can finally dispense with that one. And remember, you're the one that brought it into question.
As for the definition...it seems you don't understand it. You were arguing that everyone's view is equally corect when you said, "My reasoning is _exactly_ that _my_ reasoning. If it doesn't work for somebody else, so be it." The issue of an armed man versus an unarmed man was one that you created to pervert my attempt to explain just what this kind of relativism leads to, and why it doesn't work. If you will remember, I said innocent. Your example of a man shooting at you isn't very innocent now is it? My argument was in reference to a single set of circumstances (ie. the murder of an innocent man) and the multiple, contradicting views on the justice of that which would be spawned by a relativist. Just like the situation we have here. I said your argument was false, you said that your argument was sound using the relativist defense that all arguments are equally sound. If you can't draw the lines and connect the dots, I don't know if I can do it for you...
I didn't pretend to be intelligent by the way...I just saw someone that does not understand the concept that he is using and tried to explain them using a somewhat reputable resource. This little stab doesn't change the fact that so far we've seem to come to an understanding on the first issue (skill), and you still have no idea (or are intentionally trying to distort) of the meaning of relativism. Thinking for one's self is the application of knowledge...something that I'm trying to give you so that you don't keep abusing concepts and pretending that it's ok because all opinions are equally valid when yours comes into question. This is an egocentric manner of thinking, and very childish...you might want to work on it.
Most interestingly, when you say that "Even given your absurd surgeon argument, do you think a surgeon would come off the golf course to change your oil for 15.00? His or her time is worth more than that. Which was my original point anyway." you have just made the point that you shouldn't be a smuggler...you should just be running missions and not bother with slicing. I would fully endorse this one and tell you to have fun with that and leave the crafting and slicing to those of us that enjoy it and don't have to make arguments for charging more than the job is worth.
Finally, I'll try one more time to explain how you don't seem to contemplate relativism. Killing someone in self defense is perfectly fine, as well as killing someone in the defense of another. I take no issue with that since multiple assessments on MULTIPLE situations (one being murder of innocent people and the other being murder of a threatening person) is not relativism, though it would be a relative assessment of justice by comparing the circumstances in the two situations. Relativism is the argument used to say that multiple assessments of a SINGLE situation (such as the murder of innocent people...my original comment) are equally valid, and therefore there is no right answer.
Frankly, I'm done with you. It gets so very annoying trying to reason with someone that mixes insults with twisting arguments to either make no sense or suit their purposes...though it may not be intentional as it would seem you really don't understand the concepts at discussion.
The point before all this was that 3-5K for slicing is the generally accepted rate. Most smugglers agree and it seems an entirely fair amount for the service. Gratuity over this when you get a few slices that will give you extra profit is entirely up to you, though it will make that smuggler much more accepting of future offers or work. Those that don't want to slice for the generally accepted fee should just go and grind janta missions instead of using that as an excuse to overcharge, and leave the slicing to those that want to.
As for the definition...it seems you don't understand it. You were arguing that everyone's view is equally corect when you said, "My reasoning is _exactly_ that _my_ reasoning. If it doesn't work for somebody else, so be it." The issue of an armed man versus an unarmed man was one that you created to pervert my attempt to explain just what this kind of relativism leads to, and why it doesn't work. If you will remember, I said innocent. Your example of a man shooting at you isn't very innocent now is it? My argument was in reference to a single set of circumstances (ie. the murder of an innocent man) and the multiple, contradicting views on the justice of that which would be spawned by a relativist. Just like the situation we have here. I said your argument was false, you said that your argument was sound using the relativist defense that all arguments are equally sound. If you can't draw the lines and connect the dots, I don't know if I can do it for you...
I didn't pretend to be intelligent by the way...I just saw someone that does not understand the concept that he is using and tried to explain them using a somewhat reputable resource. This little stab doesn't change the fact that so far we've seem to come to an understanding on the first issue (skill), and you still have no idea (or are intentionally trying to distort) of the meaning of relativism. Thinking for one's self is the application of knowledge...something that I'm trying to give you so that you don't keep abusing concepts and pretending that it's ok because all opinions are equally valid when yours comes into question. This is an egocentric manner of thinking, and very childish...you might want to work on it.
Most interestingly, when you say that "Even given your absurd surgeon argument, do you think a surgeon would come off the golf course to change your oil for 15.00? His or her time is worth more than that. Which was my original point anyway." you have just made the point that you shouldn't be a smuggler...you should just be running missions and not bother with slicing. I would fully endorse this one and tell you to have fun with that and leave the crafting and slicing to those of us that enjoy it and don't have to make arguments for charging more than the job is worth.
Finally, I'll try one more time to explain how you don't seem to contemplate relativism. Killing someone in self defense is perfectly fine, as well as killing someone in the defense of another. I take no issue with that since multiple assessments on MULTIPLE situations (one being murder of innocent people and the other being murder of a threatening person) is not relativism, though it would be a relative assessment of justice by comparing the circumstances in the two situations. Relativism is the argument used to say that multiple assessments of a SINGLE situation (such as the murder of innocent people...my original comment) are equally valid, and therefore there is no right answer.
Frankly, I'm done with you. It gets so very annoying trying to reason with someone that mixes insults with twisting arguments to either make no sense or suit their purposes...though it may not be intentional as it would seem you really don't understand the concepts at discussion.
The point before all this was that 3-5K for slicing is the generally accepted rate. Most smugglers agree and it seems an entirely fair amount for the service. Gratuity over this when you get a few slices that will give you extra profit is entirely up to you, though it will make that smuggler much more accepting of future offers or work. Those that don't want to slice for the generally accepted fee should just go and grind janta missions instead of using that as an excuse to overcharge, and leave the slicing to those that want to.
CaptianBananaHammock
Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:56 pm
#43
Had a smuggler, and am thinking of going weaponsmith. Would I pay 10k for a slice? Yes. I did the Slicing grind, or what could be considered the grind. I used all locked containers since my Clan saves them all for smugglers. It's not fun, I was naked with my laser knifes and clamps and full inventory of Containers. It is a ***** to do. I charged 8k to people I didn't know. Not 10k but close.
And about the whole smuggler thing and money. Why do you think smugglers become smugglers? Its good money. You should make more money doing an illegal thing then a straight thing(think drug dealing, Higher pay, Higher Consequence.)
Now about lemming and Mr. Sensitive.
Mr. Sensitive-Values his time. Thinks others should too. He charges 10k per slice if you don't like it, find someone else. If you complain he ingores you.
Lemming-Doesn't. Wants to be charged less. It's his right to disagree and he is free to find a cheaper slicer.
This is all there is to it. No arguing or griping. Put away the hand bags and just live with it. It's your choice to pay what you pay. Your not gonna change any ideas. You can infulence but that is about it. And as far as doctor goes. I can pay 635k for 6 Crates 5 Packs. I costs me 700 per staff buff so in all it would cost 4200 for me to break even. I charge 12k thats 7800 profit off that set or 1300 Profit per buff.
Why do I charge 7.8k? For my time, note that most buff sets can run 10-20k changing the profit from 5.8k-15.8k. Thats alot for their time. A slicer asks a nice average of 10k to keep up? not too much IMO. on a side note 7.8kX31(buffs per pack on average)=1.209mil Profit. If you were a grinder buffer with good canape,brandy and mind buffs, You could burn through the crates in like 4 hours of non stop customers. It takes on average I would say a 1min30secs to slice a weapon at 10k a pop= 3 hours to make 1.2mil. That however is not including the decrate time and the inventory shuffle.
Interesting if I don't say so my self.
So as a future weaponsmith yes I can see myself paying 10k a slice. Chances are I could use or sell a weapon even if it was speed sliced.
P.S.- I think some servers might have more stuff then others, I know it took me like 2 hours before I finally found a good shop that sells smuggler stuff, And barely any on the bazaar.
And about the whole smuggler thing and money. Why do you think smugglers become smugglers? Its good money. You should make more money doing an illegal thing then a straight thing(think drug dealing, Higher pay, Higher Consequence.)
Now about lemming and Mr. Sensitive.
Mr. Sensitive-Values his time. Thinks others should too. He charges 10k per slice if you don't like it, find someone else. If you complain he ingores you.
Lemming-Doesn't. Wants to be charged less. It's his right to disagree and he is free to find a cheaper slicer.
This is all there is to it. No arguing or griping. Put away the hand bags and just live with it. It's your choice to pay what you pay. Your not gonna change any ideas. You can infulence but that is about it. And as far as doctor goes. I can pay 635k for 6 Crates 5 Packs. I costs me 700 per staff buff so in all it would cost 4200 for me to break even. I charge 12k thats 7800 profit off that set or 1300 Profit per buff.
Why do I charge 7.8k? For my time, note that most buff sets can run 10-20k changing the profit from 5.8k-15.8k. Thats alot for their time. A slicer asks a nice average of 10k to keep up? not too much IMO. on a side note 7.8kX31(buffs per pack on average)=1.209mil Profit. If you were a grinder buffer with good canape,brandy and mind buffs, You could burn through the crates in like 4 hours of non stop customers. It takes on average I would say a 1min30secs to slice a weapon at 10k a pop= 3 hours to make 1.2mil. That however is not including the decrate time and the inventory shuffle.
Interesting if I don't say so my self.
So as a future weaponsmith yes I can see myself paying 10k a slice. Chances are I could use or sell a weapon even if it was speed sliced.
P.S.- I think some servers might have more stuff then others, I know it took me like 2 hours before I finally found a good shop that sells smuggler stuff, And barely any on the bazaar.
Lurax
Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:14 pm
#44
Slicing is the only reason to completely master smuggler, there are no mods, schematics, or skills granted in that master box, except better slices...I've gone through a handful of smugglers who did slicing for me for 1-3k per slice...none lasted, they all moved onto other professions because smuggler as a whole wasn't rewarding enough to justify the skillpoints invested.
Plus, slicing is a dependant market...you can't slice whenever you feel like it, you have to find people who need slicing done. Missions you can go and grab at your leisure.
Tell me, would you rather be a strong combat profession, and make a lot of money whenever your want, or a weak combat profession and make mediocre money when you're needed? You said you dropped smuggler yourself, so I guess that answers the question doesn't it?
I'm not a smuggler, never have been.There's no greed involved in my argument, I'm just calling it like I see it. And the way I see it is, unless people start paying more money to smugglers, there just isn't enough appeal to slicing to bother mastering smuggler in the first place.
TheLemming
Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:15 am
#45
Lurax wrote:Slicing is the only reason to completely master smuggler, there are no mods, schematics, or skills granted in that master box, except better slices...I've gone through a handful of smugglers who did slicing for me for 1-3k per slice...none lasted, they all moved onto other professions because smuggler as a whole wasn't rewarding enough to justify the skillpoints invested.Plus, slicing is a dependant market...you can't slice whenever you feel like it, you have to find people who need slicing done. Missions you can go and grab at your leisure.Tell me, would you rather be a strong combat profession, and make a lot of money whenever your want, or a weak combat profession and make mediocre money when you're needed? You said you dropped smuggler yourself, so I guess that answers the question doesn't it?I'm not a smuggler, never have been. There's no greed involved in my argument, I'm just calling it like I see it. And the way I see it is, unless people start paying more money to smugglers, there just isn't enough appeal to slicing to bother mastering smuggler in the first place.
I guess I'm not done with you if you want to invoke me again.
I'll say again that it's a choice if they want to master smuggler. If all they want is money, it's true that there are much easier ways. How many times do I have to say this? Why won't it sink in? I get my slicing done by people that still have smuggler because they like to do slicing (though usually on the side with a second account).
As to why I dropped smuggler, I stated why. You just didn't read it I guess. It's called disillusionment with a class. It has nothing to do with making more money. In fact, I'm thinking about picking up an account that a friend dropped to make a smuggler again since I miss the RP value of the class along with the slicing for people. When you hit that 34% damage slice on a friend's new enhanced weapon...that just makes all the crap worth while for me. Then again, I always did have a gambler's mentality.
Frankly, I'm insanely disappointed in all of you. Your first concern in all of this is money. So you make millions in the game...how does that matter? So you can pay millions for a rug adhesive or acklay bone in an auction? It's this very greedy mission grinder mentality that killed the economy in this game with insane inflation. Try looking for a class that you can play and like, or do some quests, or even get a group of new players together so you can relive the game when a trip to the beetle cave was a wild adventure...before it became all about grinding to get "uber loot" and "uber armor" with 1% more base and 2% more stun protection that costs 500k+ more per suit (does it matter? "OMGWTFHAX, you n00b, that 4rm0r = teh pwnz0r"), or acting like having millions more than someone else in the game made you special. I'd rather be broke on my ass having fun healing goofie newbies as they kill kreetles than jumping out of my AV21 to take out a janta lair then /mount AV21 to the next one since I have to hurry to the next mission so I can clear my 3 million for the buff and watch my toon's e-peen grow with his bank account. Money means nothing...look at Donald Trump...all the money in the world and he's still a loser/psycho with a chia pet hairpiece.
...and I just have to add it to the other one...if you thought the slice grind was painful, I hope to heck you're ready to throw the TOS out the window for a third party clicker since otherwise you'll have a bear of a time with WS...though I guess being bitter from a grind you hate doing and wanting to pass that to the customer seems to be in season... I prefer the bitterness that can only come from repeated lies and insults from the game's developers...much more throw you mouse exciting.
MrSensitive
Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:26 am
#46
My god. I wishI had a soapbox as high as yours.
It is Saturday morning now, and I am fairly hungover so this will be my last post on the matter as debating/arguing with you is like eating air... what's the point.
At no point in time did I concede that weaponsmithing or smuggling required skill, however I do appreciate the word bending.
I pointed out a very succinct example and drew from the same third party source the information that relativism can in fact be more than just a single person's perception and that varying external situations can change what becomes acceptable. I am not going to continue to debate with somebody who speaks like a politician and refuses to even acknowledge a point.
My time, many people's in game time is worth more to them than you would like to admit. It isn't about not slicing, it isn't about hating the grind and taking it out on people, it is about making the in game credits that a character in my galaxy would want to make. The real world surgeon doing oil changes on the weekend is the perfect example here. If that surgeon _loves_ changing oil than good for him, charge 10 dollars per change, wash your hands and go to the operating room. I guess this is the type of person you describe when you say that some enjoy the "spin of the wheel" aspect to slicing. Ultimately, if becoming a smuggler isn't about money, than why is it a profession. In case you are wondering why that is highlighted, here is your dictionary.com definition ofthe word:
Profession: "An occupation or career". Last time I checked, I was in my career because I am making money, this is what I use to survive and to cut out my piece of the world. If I felt I wasn't making enough money doing what I was doing, I would go to a different employer. (person a: pays 2k / person b: pays 10k). The very nature of smuggling describes this perfectly. If I wanted to take things from point a to b, for average pay, I would be a truck driver. However I want more pay, so I take illegal things and do it forhigher rewards. A loose description given the fact that we don't actually have anything to smuggle in swg, but hopefully the point is still there for you
It isn't like we choose a profession and then a set of hobbies in this game. We choose multiple professions, or dabble in those professions to benefit ourselves or our friends. As somebody else pointed out, there is no reason to master smuggler as a profession other than slicing (or the RP value if that is your thing). .
A point regarding economy, I am sure you like crafting as a weaponsmith, however I also have to assume that you don't just give away your weapons. If the game isn't about credits, than why dont' you? Shouldn't you be in it for the thrill of the craft? I have to imagine that your bank account is pleasantly padded and all this "tripe" about the game not being about credits applies to others but not you.
By the way, if you are trying to incite anger in people when you make BS commentslike: "trying to do this for you" "trying to educate you", good job. I consider it deeply insulting that some ass that just got out of philosophy 101 has the ego to think he can teach me something about my own nature. Keep your condescending drivel to thepoor soulsin your life that may truly be impressed by it.
After all this wasted time, the point remains, that my time is worth more to me than 5k per slice. I know for a fact that I am not alone on that, and I know for a fact that there are plenty of smiths that also understand that and they won't bore me with philosophical pseudo-intellectual preachings. You can keep posting on this, and I am sure you will jump at the opportunity to bend my words all the while secure in the knowledge that I won't be posting in this thread again.
Lurax
Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:41 am
#47
Lemming....it's called "capitalism"
welcome to life.
Message Edited by Lurax on 10-30-2004 10:41 AM
Wargfang
Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:12 pm
#48
This worked well for me
30% or better 5k per
25% or better 4k per
Rest 3k per. Gave the slicer 3 bags valled 5k, 4k and 3k (two of these !) and off he went. Worked out real well.
If he sliced special builds (Krayt, Scythes) he got 10k flat fee and then I tipped him 20% of final sale price.
I reckon over 2 months he probably got 20 million off me and free weapons for life
Jakron
Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:09 pm
#49
i gave a armorsmith /smugler friend of mine a +4 assembly tape and a mil. hes my personal slicing bish for life now.
hes a lucky slicer to rofl . got like 20 things sliced, 25-35 everyone, al my nym vk's damage hah
Ivann
Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:01 pm
#50
I did not feel like dealing with all of this drama, so I am a master WS/Smuggler. Just slice my own weapons. I have only one vendor of mixed sliced weapons...and several vendors of everything else. Sliced weapons usually sell well.. accept for the junk slices.. that i usually charge the same price as normal..... and they still sell. people fell they are getting a discount.
___Ivann Bezerker- 12point Master Weaponsmith / Master Smuggler___
cerVantes77
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:04 am
#51
Something nobody has mentioned yet in this thread is that fact that Smugglers might have charged you 3-5k per slice in the past but with the new Smuggler nerf in P10 we have to pull out each individual clamp,WUK/AUK, and knife to slice ONE weapon. This is what drove my alt which is a Master Smuggler to only slicing my weapons solely now. I can't imagine earning 3-5k per slice for something that takes 4 times as much work as before. Bring back crate slicing and you'll see prices driven back down and both professions happier.
BloodMonk
Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:39 pm
#52
Keep treating smugglers as cheap slicing monkey's and you'll be having a hard time finding one....I for one dropped slicing for the public pretty fast due to the attitude they have...
And any WS with a sliced weapons vendor who complains about the lower sliced weapons just need to stop selling...not only for the fact that you make up for them MORE then sufficient with the good slices....but you'll also sell A LOT more weapons if you only sell unsliced weapons (and it's better bizz for smugglers too).
I also have a slicing contract (down to 4000 smuggler), we agreed on 3k per slice for my consumable weapons (grenades, rockets and such) AS they have very limited use...all the other weapons/armor whatever I pay him 10k.
Any smuggler who slices a loot weapon for me get's a nice tip, up to a few 100k for a 30%+ slice. Heck I even tipped 50K for 19% a few times, just because it was the right damage type.
Slicing is the only way to make money, for a serious skillpoint investment....selling faction is also an option, but you can only have 2 or 3 faction selling smugglers per server...
The profession is broke beyond belief...even then STILL gets nerf after nerf....people threat you worse then their dog when it's about slicing....
BE NICE TO YOUR SMUGGLER OR YOU WILL LOG ON ONE DAY WITHOUT FINDING ONE
PS: I never go to a 100c/% smuggler...they ruin the proffesion for everyone else
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