Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Capped SAC, capped damage, capped speed +ADK..now what?
ShugFlurry
Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:51 pm
#27
KraftyOne wrote:
Mor-Dan wrote:
KraftyOne wrote:
ShugFlurry wrote:
2.22 speed
1063 max damage
73 sac
e11mk2... now... whats the slice cap for speed on an e11?
May I ask what min damage was on this?
should be around 480-490, unless a form fitted stock was used.
Maybe we'll find out what Sunrunner's version looks like later.
428 actually.. that was at full experimentation... ? 480 sounds like a ALR min damage stat.
FriedSquid
Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:19 pm
#28
Mor-Dan wrote:
fried squid, you crack me up dude. you must be that guy on full tilt poker that calls me all-in when i have pocket rockets and you have 6/4 off suit. sure, you may win in the short run, but over the long term this short sightedness of yours is going to cause many problems.
how many people on ahazi today can afford to own 2 triple capped pistols, rifles, and carbines with ADKs? 10? 15? see, that's not even the right question, but it's what you are asking and answering. that's the immediate effect. the real question to be asking here is, how long until the main playing base has a full arsenal of triple capped weapons that are ADK'd? 3 months? probably not. 6 months? still unlikely. 1 year? now we may be getting close. this is a feasible scenario over this period of time. then again, in a year you'll have made your money. no skin off your back, huh? let the others worry about it.
economies, real or virtual, are not built on today, they are built on tomorrow (tomorrow being a metaphor for "the future"). supply and demand is existent no matter which universe you are in. the prices for these type of weapons will drop over time as the rich begin to fill their needs, leaving only the middle class as buyers, and they can only afford half of what the rich were paying. then they get their stuff, and now you only have newbies to buy. well you certainly can't sell stuff like this for 100k, now can you? i guess we'll have to hold onto everything for months at a time before it can be sold for what we consider a reasonable price.
will you even be a weaponsmith at this time next year? heck, i can't even say i know that i will be! but it doesn't change my position. i started this game July 2, 2003 with the aspiration to be a weaponsmith. not a great one, not the best ever, just a weaponsmith. i enjoy my job. i love working with people. i'm just hate what they have done to the product i have for sale. my goal is the long term viability of the Weaponsmith Profession. if you are too short sighted to see what dangers are in the road for us as a community, then perhaps we already have your answer for if you will still be in this profession next year...
You're not reading between the lines, Mor-Dan.
This game adds content or it dies. Period. I don't know if I'll be a WS in a year. I don't even know if I'll beplaying this game in oneor two more months. I've beena WSfor about a month and a half. BUT, my viewpoint is much different from yours because I have reached the point - in such a short time - where I can craft weapons to within a hair's breadth of as good as the best WS's on my server, if not slightly better in case of good weather / moon phase. It took a lot of effort and credits, but it was possible. I am absolutely sure that I've stocked up onmore of these power cells and casings than anyone else on my server. (6-7 sets total) I'm good at acquiring what I need to craft and craft well.... I make some of the best ship parts on my server even after entering the game late.
Now. As to what I see as the future for developmentwithin this game : Damage Type and Elemental Damage Will Matter More. There Will Be More Schems. What I wish you were pushing for harder is things like the Trando Rifle in the Avatar- it can be done, but it needs a WS along with some high end (HIGH end) combat to get to. Anyone can afford it given time and effort and teamwork.... I talk to a LOT of people who want me to do custom builds and I charge them a flat fee. I'm not really looking to make millions, I'm looking to build the best weapons around.
So I want these high end customers to come back again and again and again. To go out and 'spendlong hourshunting krayts'. (camping and grinding more slowly than normal) and then redistribute their wealth back tome for a new weapon afterI buy the tissue and the circle continues again and again? Doesn't usually work that way for me. They either buy one UBER weap that will last them through long hours of Jedi killing, Pup it and adk it, and go kill Jedi with it, or they ask where the grind weapons are. I then say, "Somewhere else, I hate factory runs with fiddly bits."
What's going to bring them back to me is if I can craft something that does some elemental damage, or works better than what they've got. Not that they've decided they want a little more speed at the expense of SAC. If they had wanted that, they'd have asked for that in the BEGINNING. They want something with actual different functionality, and 3 crafts of the same weapon isn't really what they're interested in...
Game changes and better items make excited and buying customers, not more of the same.
There is no way I would have spent this entire weekend attempting to loot high end krayt tissue. I'm just not interested. But tracking down BH targets for 12+ hours on end, and getting 0 casings or cells? Yeah, I'll do that, for some reason.
And as a side note - ADK's on my server have risen in price by 3-4M in the last week. That's a full 50% increase from the previous price. It is simply not possible to assemble the huge number of ADK's people suddenly want.
These weapons will become 'middle class' weapons if the components stick around at their current stats. Prices have already dropped to 1M or so per casing / cell, and a non-ADK'd weapon for 1.5M or so creds (my guess at an eventual price - although I also guess that this price will drop barring a nerf) isn't that bad a deal as credits get more plentiful. I fully expect prices to go back up after the incessant farming ends, or loot elsewhere gets better.
And before you knock 1.5M as a 'non-middle-class' item, remember how much meat, eggs, milkand hide are available on dant in bulk. Remember how much money is available in space. Remember how much money is brought into the game nowvia missions. Remember how easy it is to contract mine. I estimate average income to be something like 200-300k / hr. I've certainly made 3x that with my alt.
Imaridril
Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:07 pm
#29
As a non-weaponsmith, I don't think the problem is the new loots. I think the problem is just that the new lootsmakeplainly clear the major faults of thepost-CU weapon crafting system. The devs need to change the hard caps to soft caps, they need to redo the elemental damage system so that players actually have a need to own more than one gun, and they need to put optimum range back in so that rilfes aren't always better than carbinesand carbine aren't always better than pistols.
Mor-Dan
Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:42 pm
#30
FriedSquid wrote:
Mor-Dan wrote:
fried squid, you crack me up dude. you must be that guy on full tilt poker that calls me all-in when i have pocket rockets and you have 6/4 off suit. sure, you may win in the short run, but over the long term this short sightedness of yours is going to cause many problems.
how many people on ahazi today can afford to own 2 triple capped pistols, rifles, and carbines with ADKs? 10? 15? see, that's not even the right question, but it's what you are asking and answering. that's the immediate effect. the real question to be asking here is, how long until the main playing base has a full arsenal of triple capped weapons that are ADK'd? 3 months? probably not. 6 months? still unlikely. 1 year? now we may be getting close. this is a feasible scenario over this period of time. then again, in a year you'll have made your money. no skin off your back, huh? let the others worry about it.
economies, real or virtual, are not built on today, they are built on tomorrow (tomorrow being a metaphor for "the future"). supply and demand is existent no matter which universe you are in. the prices for these type of weapons will drop over time as the rich begin to fill their needs, leaving only the middle class as buyers, and they can only afford half of what the rich were paying. then they get their stuff, and now you only have newbies to buy. well you certainly can't sell stuff like this for 100k, now can you? i guess we'll have to hold onto everything for months at a time before it can be sold for what we consider a reasonable price.
will you even be a weaponsmith at this time next year? heck, i can't even say i know that i will be! but it doesn't change my position. i started this game July 2, 2003 with the aspiration to be a weaponsmith. not a great one, not the best ever, just a weaponsmith. i enjoy my job. i love working with people. i'm just hate what they have done to the product i have for sale. my goal is the long term viability of the Weaponsmith Profession. if you are too short sighted to see what dangers are in the road for us as a community, then perhaps we already have your answer for if you will still be in this profession next year...
You're not reading between the lines, Mor-Dan.This game adds content or it dies. Period. I don't know if I'll be a WS in a year. I don't even know if I'll beplaying this game in oneor two more months. I've beena WSfor about a month and a half. BUT, my viewpoint is much different from yours because I have reached the point - in such a short time - where I can craft weapons to within a hair's breadth of as good as the best WS's on my server, if not slightly better in case of good weather / moon phase. It took a lot of effort and credits, but it was possible. I am absolutely sure that I've stocked up onmore of these power cells and casings than anyone else on my server. (6-7 sets total) I'm good at acquiring what I need to craft and craft well.... I make some of the best ship parts on my server even after entering the game late.Now. As to what I see as the future for developmentwithin this game : Damage Type and Elemental Damage Will Matter More. There Will Be More Schems. What I wish you were pushing for harder is things like the Trando Rifle in the Avatar- it can be done, but it needs a WS along with some high end (HIGH end) combat to get to. Anyone can afford it given time and effort and teamwork.... I talk to a LOT of people who want me to do custom builds and I charge them a flat fee. I'm not really looking to make millions, I'm looking to build the best weapons around.So I want these high end customers to come back again and again and again. To go out and 'spendlong hourshunting krayts'. (camping and grinding more slowly than normal) and then redistribute their wealth back tome for a new weapon afterI buy the tissue and the circle continues again and again? Doesn't usually work that way for me. They either buy one UBER weap that will last them through long hours of Jedi killing, Pup it and adk it, and go kill Jedi with it, or they ask where the grind weapons are. I then say, "Somewhere else, I hate factory runs with fiddly bits."What's going to bring them back to me is if I can craft something that does some elemental damage, or works better than what they've got. Not that they've decided they want a little more speed at the expense of SAC. If they had wanted that, they'd have asked for that in the BEGINNING. They want something with actual different functionality, and 3 crafts of the same weapon isn't really what they're interested in...Game changes and better items make excited and buying customers, not more of the same.There is no way I would have spent this entire weekend attempting to loot high end krayt tissue. I'm just not interested. But tracking down BH targets for 12+ hours on end, and getting 0 casings or cells? Yeah, I'll do that, for some reason.And as a side note - ADK's on my server have risen in price by 3-4M in the last week. That's a full 50% increase from the previous price. It is simply not possible to assemble the huge number of ADK's people suddenly want.These weapons will become 'middle class' weapons if the components stick around at their current stats. Prices have already dropped to 1M or so per casing / cell, and a non-ADK'd weapon for 1.5M or so creds (my guess at an eventual price - although I also guess that this price will drop barring a nerf) isn't that bad a deal as credits get more plentiful. I fully expect prices to go back up after the incessant farming ends, or loot elsewhere gets better.And before you knock 1.5M as a 'non-middle-class' item, remember how much meat, eggs, milkand hide are available on dant in bulk. Remember how much money is available in space. Remember how much money is brought into the game nowvia missions. Remember how easy it is to contract mine. I estimate average income to be something like 200-300k / hr. I've certainly made 3x that with my alt.
believe you me, i hear you. i want more stuff like the trando rifle. we were PROMISED more stuff like this in the CU alpha, to the tune of about 8-10 NEW schematics. there was a rumor going around in anaheim as to what happened that we didn't get all those schems, but i am not at liberty to repeat it, since it is still a rumor. but that's what i want. more lootable weapons that can also be crafted. not just be crafted, but be crafted and require mid to high end enhancers to match or exceed looted stadards, making both have value. these are all things i posted in my original statements to the dev team upon becomming the Correspondent. but, as i was told by the one who preceeded me, the wheels turn slow. it has only been about 4 months since i became Corr, and a few of the initial things we asked for have come to fruition, but most are still (hopefully) just hanging out in the pipeline. thanks to leakers who can't keep their mouths shut even under an NDA, we don't get near the level of communication we once did, but that's life. what it is obvious you missed from my statements is that in a year it is feasible that all these top end weapons from all the ADKs in the game from players who quit it is possible that no one but n00bs will need a base weapon anymore. that means everything in the game is on a continuing course of degrading value. one day this will be just like EQ, where if you aren't already uber when you start, you can forget about ever getting there unless you pretend to be a chick, or someone knows you, because people won't have anything to do with a level 46 wizar... err... rifleman. one day, they'll all be jedi and BH and nothing else will matter. the changes made and this new loot is taking the game out of the hands of crafters and putting it in the hands of looters. it's going to be January 2004 all over again (when krayt priced really started sky rocketing on my server). then, it will turn into June 2004, which is when the bottom fell out of the krayt market on anything that wasn't at least 100dmg. it's even worse right now. nothing has value unless it is over 125dmg. do you know how hard it was to find 110dmg krayt pre-CU? it was next to impossible. now the millions get shelled out for 150+, and then these power cells come in, starting at 156 (the first set i saw). everything i have seen since then is 170+, and i have seen 12 loot drops of this in stuff brought to me, and received tells/email asking about it from 15 other players. it drops, and even though it isn't as frequent as krayt, it is always higher by average in damage and speed mod, and then has the SAC to go along with it.
you've only been doing this prof for nearly two months, so i don't expect you to fully understand. i just ask you to trust those of us who have been dealing with this economy for over a year that we know what we are talking about. this is bad for the game, it's bad for our community, and it is destructive in the long term, not helpful. there will be those who make their millions, and then everyone else willbe stuck holding the bomb just before it goes off. i am concerned for those 'smiths who aren't masters yet that will out. i am concerned for those who buy up this stuff and get left holding the bag when something changes like it always does. i am not worried about me. i want the people of this profession to go on doing what they love without fear of a crashing market, and these new loots do not help this.
Mor-Dan
Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:07 am
#31
KraftyOne wrote:
ShugFlurry wrote:
2.22 speed
1063 max damage
73 sac
e11mk2... now... whats the slice cap for speed on an e11?
May I ask what min damage was on this?
should be around 480-490, unless a form fitted stock was used.
KraftyOne
Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:14 am
#32
Mor-Dan wrote:
KraftyOne wrote:
ShugFlurry wrote:
2.22 speed
1063 max damage
73 sac
e11mk2... now... whats the slice cap for speed on an e11?
May I ask what min damage was on this?
should be around 480-490, unless a form fitted stock was used.
Maybe we'll find out what Sunrunner's version looks like later.
Mor-Dan
Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:21 am
#33
fried squid, you crack me up dude. you must be that guy on full tilt poker that calls me all-in when i have pocket rockets and you have 6/4 off suit. sure, you may win in the short run, but over the long term this short sightedness of yours is going to cause many problems.
how many people on ahazi today can afford to own 2 triple capped pistols, rifles, and carbines with ADKs? 10? 15? see, that's not even the right question, but it's what you are asking and answering. that's the immediate effect. the real question to be asking here is, how long until the main playing base has a full arsenal of triple capped weapons that are ADK'd? 3 months? probably not. 6 months? still unlikely. 1 year? now we may be getting close. this is a feasible scenario over this period of time. then again, in a year you'll have made your money. no skin off your back, huh? let the others worry about it.
economies, real or virtual, are not built on today, they are built on tomorrow (tomorrow being a metaphor for "the future"). supply and demand is existent no matter which universe you are in. the prices for these type of weapons will drop over time as the rich begin to fill their needs, leaving only the middle class as buyers, and they can only afford half of what the rich were paying. then they get their stuff, and now you only have newbies to buy. well you certainly can't sell stuff like this for 100k, now can you? i guess we'll have to hold onto everything for months at a time before it can be sold for what we consider a reasonable price.
will you even be a weaponsmith at this time next year? heck, i can't even say i know that i will be! but it doesn't change my position. i started this game July 2, 2003 with the aspiration to be a weaponsmith. not a great one, not the best ever, just a weaponsmith. i enjoy my job. i love working with people. i'm just hate what they have done to the product i have for sale. my goal is the long term viability of the Weaponsmith Profession. if you are too short sighted to see what dangers are in the road for us as a community, then perhaps we already have your answer for if you will still be in this profession next year...
how many people on ahazi today can afford to own 2 triple capped pistols, rifles, and carbines with ADKs? 10? 15? see, that's not even the right question, but it's what you are asking and answering. that's the immediate effect. the real question to be asking here is, how long until the main playing base has a full arsenal of triple capped weapons that are ADK'd? 3 months? probably not. 6 months? still unlikely. 1 year? now we may be getting close. this is a feasible scenario over this period of time. then again, in a year you'll have made your money. no skin off your back, huh? let the others worry about it.
economies, real or virtual, are not built on today, they are built on tomorrow (tomorrow being a metaphor for "the future"). supply and demand is existent no matter which universe you are in. the prices for these type of weapons will drop over time as the rich begin to fill their needs, leaving only the middle class as buyers, and they can only afford half of what the rich were paying. then they get their stuff, and now you only have newbies to buy. well you certainly can't sell stuff like this for 100k, now can you? i guess we'll have to hold onto everything for months at a time before it can be sold for what we consider a reasonable price.
will you even be a weaponsmith at this time next year? heck, i can't even say i know that i will be! but it doesn't change my position. i started this game July 2, 2003 with the aspiration to be a weaponsmith. not a great one, not the best ever, just a weaponsmith. i enjoy my job. i love working with people. i'm just hate what they have done to the product i have for sale. my goal is the long term viability of the Weaponsmith Profession. if you are too short sighted to see what dangers are in the road for us as a community, then perhaps we already have your answer for if you will still be in this profession next year...
raindog_mx
Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:25 am
#34
Let me be optimistic on this, I am not weaponsmith,but a regular client.
...Well maybe you don't buy any other weapon of thatparticular ADK'ed model, but then ,there is the people who loves weapons and like to have more than one, and use them for different kinds of PVP and PVE , and not all have ADK's for all their nice weapons (like me)
Also there's the players who changes their template often, and needs new weapons to fit their combat prof.
I think good Weaponsmits will have lots of workFOREVER
Dessin
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Edited by raindog_mx on 08-09-2005 12:37 PM
Zandergeef
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:35 am
#35
If you cap SAC, damage, speed and then throw an ADK on the weapon it looks like you have won the weaponsmithing game.
I think what some people need to do is take a step back and figure out why they play this game and why do they play this game as a weaponmsith. Do you play this game as a weaponsmith to make money? I like to make money but I have much more fun just playing the game.
Overall I think everything will be fine. Sure youll have some guy who has 20 ADK's and is super uber but those people tend to not last forever and move along to other games. There will always be a need for weaponsmiths, esspecially ones who are good. New people will come and want good weapons. Veterans will come who sold there ADK's for credits.
I think what some people need to do is take a step back and figure out why they play this game and why do they play this game as a weaponmsith. Do you play this game as a weaponsmith to make money? I like to make money but I have much more fun just playing the game.
Overall I think everything will be fine. Sure youll have some guy who has 20 ADK's and is super uber but those people tend to not last forever and move along to other games. There will always be a need for weaponsmiths, esspecially ones who are good. New people will come and want good weapons. Veterans will come who sold there ADK's for credits.
Muzz
Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:19 am
#36
Where are these fabled triple-capped weapons? I've never seen a screenie of one or even heard of one ingame.
ShugFlurry
Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:35 am
#37
I've hit double cap with 1.95 speed carbine (after slice). Not sure what the cap is though.
KraftyOne
Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:14 am
#38
ShugFlurry wrote:
KraftyOne wrote:
Mor-Dan wrote:
KraftyOne wrote:
ShugFlurry wrote:
2.22 speed
1063 max damage
73 sac
e11mk2... now... whats the slice cap for speed on an e11?
May I ask what min damage was on this?
should be around 480-490, unless a form fitted stock was used.
Maybe we'll find out what Sunrunner's version looks like later.
428 actually.. that was at full experimentation... ? 480 sounds like a ALR min damage stat.
This is why too big a deal is being made about this. I would still prefer my 504-1046 elite cabine over 428-1063 any day, especially when you take into account a damage PUP, and an adrenal boost. So unless you can get the min damage up on these, the best weapons had already been made. Just because these look better on the surface doesn't make them the true perfect weapon. I am only speaking for carbines and likely rifles here. I have seen featherweights and scatters that are far better than what were made before.
ShugFlurry
Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:34 am
#39
KraftyOne wrote:
ShugFlurry wrote:
KraftyOne wrote:
Mor-Dan wrote:
KraftyOne wrote:
ShugFlurry wrote:
2.22 speed
1063 max damage
73 sac
e11mk2... now... whats the slice cap for speed on an e11?
May I ask what min damage was on this?
should be around 480-490, unless a form fitted stock was used.
Maybe we'll find out what Sunrunner's version looks like later.
428 actually.. that was at full experimentation... ? 480 sounds like a ALR min damage stat.
This is why too big a deal is being made about this. I would still prefer my 504-1046 elite cabine over 428-1063 any day, especially when you take into account a damage PUP, and an adrenal boost. So unless you can get the min damage up on these, the best weapons had already been made. Just because these look better on the surface doesn't make them the true perfect weapon. I am only speaking for carbines and likely rifles here. I have seen featherweights and scatters that are far better than what were made before.
That pre-cu? I tried crafting max min damage but w/o damage stocks looted/post-cu pre-nerf no Elites I have are in that min damage range.