Weaponsmith Archive

the new loot is cool, drops are about right I would say and I dont think things are overpowered at all. People have to stop acting in this reactionary manner and look at building things and not knocking them down as soon as they appear.

if you think about this logically this is the best way to get crafting back on the players mind. if there is new loot, they go loot it, if it makes a weapon they want to know if it can make on better than what they have, they get one crafted and it adds 5 points of DPS and some cool accuracy, they bin the looted trando suppressor and adk you crafted with love and hugs featherweight fwg5, they go off and pwn everyone in sight. 2 weeks later they loot one of those funny looking things that make cool weapons but, hmm, the stats are a little bit higher, they give you a call and .... [I do accept that the previous paragraph would assume some plan and insight on the part of the devs/SOE and that previously this has been proven to be a fatally flawed assumption ]

A steady increase in stats, few points at a time, over a period will mean people want new guns - ffs could it be any simpler than that ? Add to that more new schems and we are off again

I would love multiple damage types and AP to return, but this combat engine does not support them (hence they went), better use of elemental damage would help (enhancers and loot for this maybe?)

The days of mass production are over but there is a future and its looking ok tbh.

We dont need things nerfing we need everything else fixing.

The question should be asked from the non-WS POV, too.

What happens when a player no longer 'needs' anything from all this high end ground content? Running around with capped adk'd weps and a suit of RIS, what is left in the ground game to do? No reason to go after more krayt/gorax/gdks/etc because they can't ever get better then what they have, after a point one really doesn't need to d it for the credits, and otherwise fighting with the same gear day in and day out gets stale. Chase new slice tools, or other new content/loot? Kinda pointless.

So whats left? Change professions / do more mindless grindng just to force yourself into a change of pace? How often can one do that?

Its nice that they added some new components, but its only a temporary blip allowing for an extra few weeks of things to chase.

The issue that caps that are so easily reachable are bigger then just a WS losing a bit of business or selling fewer cl54 weps, but I do agree they suck and are bad for the game.

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Hairycarpet wrote:
the new loot is cool, drops are about right I would say and I dont think things are overpowered at all. People have to stop acting in this reactionary manner and look at building things and not knocking them down as soon as they appear.

if you think about this logically this is the best way to get crafting back on the players mind. if there is new loot, they go loot it, if it makes a weapon they want to know if it can make on better than what they have, they get one crafted and it adds 5 points of DPS and some cool accuracy, they bin the looted trando suppressor and adk you crafted with love and hugs featherweight fwg5, they go off and pwn everyone in sight. 2 weeks later they loot one of those funny looking things that make cool weapons but, hmm, the stats are a little bit higher, they give you a call and .... [I do accept that the previous paragraph would assume some plan and insight on the part of the devs/SOE and that previously this has been proven to be a fatally flawed assumption ]

A steady increase in stats, few points at a time, over a period will mean people want new guns - ffs could it be any simpler than that ? Add to that more new schems and we are off again

I would love multiple damage types and AP to return, but this combat engine does not support them (hence they went), better use of elemental damage would help (enhancers and loot for this maybe?)

The days of mass production are over but there is a future and its looking ok tbh.

We dont need things nerfing we need everything else fixing.

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Umm, these loots are capping the damage and SAC easily. Some people are even getting the speed about as close to cap as they can with slices. Then.......what? That's it. This argument has nothing.

And have they released any schems for weapons that have a higher damage cap? Don't think so. Would be pretty stupid since it would negate the whole purpose of having a damage cap in the first place. Once you get a multi-capped ALR, E11, DL44XT, or Featherweight, that's it.

Still not the point though. They shouldn't have given us loot that let us hit these caps in the first place. You should only be hitting one cap with the best possible resources and loot for that stat, and that row of experimentation maxed out...but instead they kept upping the loot to cater to this "I want uber" attitude and spiting the crafting process along the way.

2.22 speed
1063 max damage
73 sac

e11mk2... now... whats the slice cap for speed on an e11?

Games like this work on a principle of providing a visible horizon to a player, aiding the player move towards the horizon and then moving the horizon on a little. People need to stop thinking its the end of the game because craft/loot weapons are capped - the CAP CAN CHANGE, the mobs can change, player health can change - they only need to change a little every so often to keep things advancing. The world has to be constantly changing or it lacks continuous play value. Personally I see great benefit in a game where loot is good and not so very rare and then a little time later things are moved on a little, just enough to creat player aspiration for the newer pistol with 960 max dmg, but not enough to render the guy with 948max damage useless. If you let people sit and party too long on the horizon they get bored and go look for another party.

The cap isn't going to change. Health isn't going to change. They just changed it in the CU...that huge thing that they so lamely tested and pushed out. The thing that was supposed to balance everything. If they started changing stuff again to "move the horizon" they would risk screwing this all to heck and needing to do another CU...hence why they put on the hard caps. If they meant for them to be soft caps, they would have let us slice past them.

On top of that, what you're talking about is turning loot into content...and I think you might be on to something. Know what? It sucks. They need to work on more real content and knock off these pointless grinding distractions.

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TheLemming wrote:

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Muzz wrote:

Yeah let's remove them.

I trust that after their removal you will, in the name of consistency, also be petitioning for the removal of krayt tissues, as these enable us to make weapons that are vastly superior to anything else.

You say they seem to be everywhere. Seem is the important word there, and you confirm this in your next sentence... i've had a few people asking what stats guns would hit with theirs.... a few people. So, they're not everywhere then. This publish has been live for five days now, the missions are being farmed, and you've had a few people asking.

The sky is hardly falling is it.

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I normally only have 1-2 people contact me about krayt per day. I've had more than that per day contact me about these.

Did I hit too close to the mark on the first part? I think I did. Let me lay it out. These loots are useful in 2 ways. The first is that they allow hack WS with bad resources to make weapons that good smiths have already been making with krayt and gorax. The second is that they allow good WS to cap multiple stats of weapons and removing any element of interest or ability in weapon production. You don't need to know anything about what you're making. You don't need to know anything from the person you're making it for. You just need to slap it all in and charge an insane amount for "teh ub0rest weapon evah!"

And actually, I would also agree that krayt has become too powerful. Remember when we used to see a couple -0.3/+30 tissues and a very rare set of +100 tissues? Now I have people come to me for a couple weapons made with +150 tissues, and they give me 5 or so sets of tissues from 70 to 100+ because they "don't have room" and they're still holding a few more sets of +120 for later.

Oh yeah, and a couple of the people that I had talk to me about guns from the BH loot weren't even BH...they had BH friends give them extra. Yeah, really rare.

Also note that I never said the sky is falling. This was just a really freakin stupid move that seems to have people so focused on the money they can make from making "uber" guns with crazy loot that they lost all interest in actually working on their craft to become a better smith.

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You didn't hit too close to the mark at all, actually I am confused by the contradictions in your posts. Will you be requesting the removal of krayt tissues too?? Or not?? You agree that they are too powerful now also.

Oh my god, BH have given some of their friends some EPCs that they've looted. Yet you go on to say that you are regularly given sets of krayt tissues. So they're not too common then??

And please, give it a rest with the ub3r l337 comments about 'hack' WS. You're making yourself look pompous. You know nothing about my weapons, their quality, my resources or how long I have been a WS.

Your inference is that it's only the less capable WS that like these items. As you're obviously the self-appointed spokesman for the WS elite I humbly tip my hat to you and apologise for liking these items.

I'll get back to making myuseless without EPC / RC weapons.

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Ragnaat wrote:
The question should be asked from the non-WS POV, too.

What happens when a player no longer 'needs' anything from all this high end ground content? Running around with capped adk'd weps and a suit of RIS, what is left in the ground game to do? No reason to go after more krayt/gorax/gdks/etc because they can't ever get better then what they have, after a point one really doesn't need to d it for the credits, and otherwise fighting with the same gear day in and day out gets stale. Chase new slice tools, or other new content/loot? Kinda pointless.

So whats left? Change professions / do more mindless grindng just to force yourself into a change of pace? How often can one do that?

Its nice that they added some new components, but its only a temporary blip allowing for an extra few weeks of things to chase.

The issue that caps that are so easily reachable are bigger then just a WS losing a bit of business or selling fewer cl54 weps, but I do agree they suck and are bad for the game.

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Your first point is somewhat moot. Without these new enhancements players ALREADY WERE running around with the best possible ADK'd weapons that could be made, namely krayted. Did that stop players going after more krayt and gorax loot? Nope.

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ShugFlurry wrote:
2.22 speed
1063 max damage
73 sac

e11mk2... now... whats the slice cap for speed on an e11?

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May I ask what min damage was on this?

Have to love the attitude that new more powerful loots shouldn't be brought into the game because it renders previously crafted items obsolete. This has alwaysbeen the casesince the game started. Was there this outcry when the Geo Labs were introduced?? After all it rendered alot of previously crafted melee weapons obsolete, and some ranged weapons.

If improvements in loots and resultant crafts are unwelcome why not just remove enhancements completely??

/nerf innovation

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Muzz wrote:

Have to love the attitude that new more powerful loots shouldn't be brought into the game because it renders previously crafted items obsolete. This has alwaysbeen the casesince the game started. Was there this outcry when the Geo Labs were introduced?? After all it rendered alot of previously crafted melee weapons obsolete, and some ranged weapons.

If improvements in loots and resultant crafts are unwelcome why not just remove enhancements completely??

/nerf innovation

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There has never been weapon caps either...

I dont know what you craft for, but one of the things that drives me is to continually improve upon my product and while these new Enhancers are great for this, they are also the end of that.

Unless they take away the caps (which I cant see them doing as they want to be able to control our abilities to make (in their opinion) overpowered weapons) I can now see the end of the road for my career I now have the option of capping every weapon ingame most with ease and to me that gets dull pretty fast.

Also another thing I like about wsing is debatting with the costumer what sort of weapon he would like and make the weapon that suit him and his template perfectly. With the new loot this is almost void.

As a last point with the ADK and the ability to get triple capped weapons where do you see our future marked? I dont. I have trust in the devs to introduce some sort need for more than 1 weapon and thus I aint shouting doom and gloom over these new components and now that they are ingame I dont want to see them nerfed as nerf is not the way to go.

Id like to see them changed to min dam enhancers or melee damage enhancers however or perhaps Elemental dam enhancers. I dont understand th reasoning behind introducing these at all.

You got to admit thou that we stand in a different situation now, than when geolab was introduced with adk and caps. Also I dont call this innoovation I call it lack of ímagination. Innovation would have been adding loot did something different than what is allready ingame. Perhaps SAC reducers that could go in barrels (would need a slot for enhancers) That would have ccreated the asme result as now, but at least have givenus something new

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Summerflame wrote:

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Muzz wrote:

Have to love the attitude that new more powerful loots shouldn't be brought into the game because it renders previously crafted items obsolete. This has alwaysbeen the casesince the game started. Was there this outcry when the Geo Labs were introduced?? After all it rendered alot of previously crafted melee weapons obsolete, and some ranged weapons.

If improvements in loots and resultant crafts are unwelcome why not just remove enhancements completely??

/nerf innovation

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There has never been weapon caps either...

I dont know what you craft for, but one of the things that drives me is to continually improve upon my product and while these new Enhancers are great for this, they are also the end of that.

Unless they take away the caps (which I cant see them doing as they want to be able to control our abilities to make (in their opinion) overpowered weapons) I can now see the end of the road for my career I now have the option of capping every weapon ingame most with ease and to me that gets dull pretty fast.

Also another thing I like about wsing is debatting with the costumer what sort of weapon he would like and make the weapon that suit him and his template perfectly. With the new loot this is almost void.

As a last point with the ADK and the ability to get triple capped weapons where do you see our future marked? I dont. I have trust in the devs to introduce some sort need for more than 1 weapon and thus I aint shouting doom and gloom over these new components and now that they are ingame I dont want to see them nerfed as nerf is not the way to go.

Id like to see them changed to min dam enhancers or melee damage enhancers however or perhaps Elemental dam enhancers. I dont understand th reasoning behind introducing these at all.

You got to admit thou that we stand in a different situation now, than when geolab was introduced with adk and caps. Also I dont call this innoovation I call it lack of ímagination. Innovation would have been adding loot did something different than what is allready ingame. Perhaps SAC reducers that could go in barrels (would need a slot for enhancers) That would have ccreated the asme result as now, but at least have givenus something new

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Have you seen any triple-capped weapons? If so, how many? These things are a rare drop, it will take forever to equip everyone who wants a weapon made with them. Forever and eternity to equip everyone with triple-capped. They do not automatically triple-cap, or even double-cap. The very high end ones will double cap yes, but they are a rare drop within a rare drop.

You say you find capping dull. Weapons are now routinely SAC capped (or within a point or two). Players had ADK'd weapons previous to these drops.

A different enhancer may be an idea yes. The thing that is annoying me most about the outcry is people complaining that the drops are unbalancing. They are no more unbalancing than other looted weapon enhancements.

One poster mentioned that 'who would want a non-enhanced weapon now these are here' (or words to that effect) while in the same post commenting that he was regularly given krayt tissues. Huh?? How does that work then??Krayt tissuesare obviouslyan enhancement that are now so common-all-garden that they are now tossed away like a trinket.

edit... After all that, one thing I forgot. I have been a WS for over a year, my motives for crafting are that it's far and away the best part of the game. The attitudes of some posters (and Summerflame I am in now way referring to you particularly here) that they are somehow better crafters or more dedicated crafters because they are opposed to these items doesn't wash, it smacks of pomposity.

Message Edited by Muzz on 08-09-2005 10:10 PM