Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Capped SAC, capped damage, capped speed +ADK..now what?
ShugFlurry wrote:
That pre-cu? I tried crafting max min damage but w/o damage stocks looted/post-cu pre-nerf no Elites I have are in that min damage range.
Message Edited by KraftyOne on 08-10-2005 09:05 AM
Muzz wrote:
Where are these fabled triple-capped weapons? I've never seen a screenie of one or even heard of one ingame.
While I haven't actually triple capped a weapon yet I've gotten darn close.
Featherweight...
940 max damage
1.7 speed(12% slice)
65 SAC
377 base unmodded DPS.
Laser Rifle...
1153 max damage
2.26 speed(sliced)
82 SAC
don't recall base DPS on this right off hand, but I know my modded DPS with a speed pup on this baby is 922 and I'm not even a master rifleman 
.
KraftyOne wrote:
ShugFlurry wrote:
That pre-cu? I tried crafting max min damage but w/o damage stocks looted/post-cu pre-nerf no Elites I have are in that min damage range.
This was definately crafted post-CU by Mor-Dan, and damage sliced for 8%. What i based my purchase on was the elite that had the highest min with the max high enough to slice cap max damage. The min would have been 467 pre slice i believe.Edit: speed is 2.32, and i just located a screenshot if you would like to see it.Message Edited by KraftyOne on 08-10-2005 09:05 AM
How long post-cu?
ShugFlurry wrote:
KraftyOne wrote:
ShugFlurry wrote:
That pre-cu? I tried crafting max min damage but w/o damage stocks looted/post-cu pre-nerf no Elites I have are in that min damage range.
This was definately crafted post-CU by Mor-Dan, and damage sliced for 8%. What i based my purchase on was the elite that had the highest min with the max high enough to slice cap max damage. The min would have been 467 pre slice i believe.
Edit: speed is 2.32, and i just located a screenshot if you would like to see it.
Message Edited by KraftyOne on 08-10-2005 09:05 AM
How long post-cu?
You'd have to ask him. I've had it for around a month. I bought it, along with several others to test out the new slicing system. This seemed to be the best combo. I imagine you would have to get to at least 470-1063 to compare to this.
jason67 wrote:
Muzz wrote:
Where are these fabled triple-capped weapons? I've never seen a screenie of one or even heard of one ingame.
While I haven't actually triple capped a weapon yet I've gotten darn close.
Featherweight...
940 max damage
1.7 speed(12% slice)
65 SAC
377 base unmodded DPS.
Laser Rifle...
1153 max damage
2.26 speed(sliced)
82 SAC
don't recall base DPS on this right off hand, but I know my modded DPS with a speed pup on this baby is 922 and I'm not even a master rifleman
While being nice weapons these are nowhere near being triple-capped even after slicing.
Most WS cap at least one stat when crafting basic unenhanced weapons, yet cry for the end of the game and / or the profession when enhanced weapons are double-capped. The above weapons(pretty damned good ones) indicatethere is still a long way to go to triple-cap even with the EPCs and RCs.
Ya damage cap on the pistol is roughly 967 as I recall, so a few points off that, but from the weapons cap post the speed should be capped at 1.73, and I'm hitting 1.7.
Muzz wrote:
jason67 wrote:
Muzz wrote:
Where are these fabled triple-capped weapons? I've never seen a screenie of one or even heard of one ingame.
While I haven't actually triple capped a weapon yet I've gotten darn close.
Featherweight...
940 max damage
1.7 speed(12% slice)
65 SAC
377 base unmodded DPS.
Laser Rifle...
1153 max damage
2.26 speed(sliced)
82 SAC
don't recall base DPS on this right off hand, but I know my modded DPS with a speed pup on this baby is 922 and I'm not even a master rifleman
While being nice weapons these are nowhere near being triple-capped even after slicing.
Most WS cap at least one stat when crafting basic unenhanced weapons, yet cry for the end of the game and / or the profession when enhanced weapons are double-capped. The above weapons(pretty damned good ones) indicatethere is still a long way to go to triple-cap even with the EPCs and RCs.
Muzz wrote:
Personally I find large blocks of text difficult to read, but each to their own I suppose. Perhaps I should do a google and find out what these "book" things are. Can you recommend me some easy ones to start with, perhaps with alot of pictures incase they're too difficult for me at first. /unequip my sarcasm too
Now, getting back to serious mode, I think the debate on these items has run its course. Points, arguments and counter-arguments have been presented by both sides.The future of these items is in the hands of the Devs so it's a pointless exercise to some extent, they'll make their decision one way or the other.
It is refreshing to engage in a reasoned discussion without the thread deteriorating into aflamefest.
I think the problem is that the real problem doesnt lie with these enhancers.
The real problem lies with the Devs needs/wishes to control our ability to better ourself.
My greatest fear is stagnation and Im afraid that the ADK and these amazing enhancers along with the hardcaps will eventually lead to this.
Before CU the sky was the limit, now we have hard caps and relatively easy access to enhancers that will reach these and that is the real problem as I see them.
I dont want these nerfed (as nerfing never seems to bring anything good witth it) I want new possibiliies to better my weapons
- Elemental damage that matters (Mob vulnerability)
- Legendary (but very rare) Enhancers that breaks damage cap (Like the Yellow Pre Cu Barrels)
- Reverse Engineering of skilltapes into Weapon Enhancers that gives weapons skillmods
- Unlocking of Schematics based on time you have been a WS (We need something for sticking with the profession)
- Resources should have an even greater impact on the weapon (so even with great enhancers tehre would be a significant difference between smiths that has devoted their time to collect the very best and those that doesnt take pride in this aspect of the WSing)
I dont mind more looted enhancers as I am a STRONG believer of interdependency (this is after all a MMORPG ), but with the above features Veteran Smiths should still be able to stand out and be rewarded for their commitment t the profession even with younger smith being able to craft decent weapons with Loot enhancers (and without)
I think this whole debat has gone sour cause we look at the situation from different perspectives without facing the major problem. We have focused on these enhancers when really the problem lies much deeper in the build of our profession post CU, POST ROTWand POST ADK
Summerflame wrote:
Muzz wrote:
Personally I find large blocks of text difficult to read, but each to their own I suppose. Perhaps I should do a google and find out what these "book" things are. Can you recommend me some easy ones to start with, perhaps with alot of pictures incase they're too difficult for me at first. /unequip my sarcasm too
Now, getting back to serious mode, I think the debate on these items has run its course. Points, arguments and counter-arguments have been presented by both sides.The future of these items is in the hands of the Devs so it's a pointless exercise to some extent, they'll make their decision one way or the other.
It is refreshing to engage in a reasoned discussion without the thread deteriorating into aflamefest.
I think the problem is that the real problem doesnt lie with these enhancers.
The real problem lies with the Devs needs/wishes to control our ability to better ourself.
My greatest fear is stagnation and Im afraid that the ADK and these amazing enhancers along with the hardcaps will eventually lead to this.
Before CU the sky was the limit, now we have hard caps and relatively easy access to enhancers that will reach these and that is the real problem as I see them.
I dont want these nerfed (as nerfing never seems to bring anything good witth it) I want new possibiliies to better my weapons
- Elemental damage that matters (Mob vulnerability)
- Legendary (but very rare) Enhancers that breaks damage cap (Like the Yellow Pre Cu Barrels)
- Reverse Engineering of skilltapes into Weapon Enhancers that gives weapons skillmods
- Unlocking of Schematics based on time you have been a WS (We need something for sticking with the profession)
- Resources should have an even greater impact on the weapon (so even with great enhancers tehre would be a significant difference between smiths that has devoted their time to collect the very best and those that doesnt take pride in this aspect of the WSing)
I dont mind more looted enhancers as I am a STRONG believer of interdependency (this is after all a MMORPG
I think this whole debat has gone sour cause we look at the situation from different perspectives without facing the major problem. We have focused on these enhancers when really the problem lies much deeper in the build of our profession post CU, POST ROTWand POST ADK
TheLemming wrote:
Muzz wrote:
TheLemming wrote:
Muzz wrote:
Yeah let's remove them.
I trust that after their removal you will, in the name of consistency, also be petitioning for the removal of krayt tissues, as these enable us to make weapons that are vastly superior to anything else.
You say they seem to be everywhere. Seem is the important word there, and you confirm this in your next sentence... i've had a few people asking what stats guns would hit with theirs.... a few people. So, they're not everywhere then. This publish has been live for five days now, the missions are being farmed, and you've had a few people asking.
The sky is hardly falling is it.
I normally only have 1-2 people contact me about krayt per day. I've had more than that per day contact me about these.
Did I hit too close to the mark on the first part? I think I did. Let me lay it out. These loots are useful in 2 ways. The first is that they allow hack WS with bad resources to make weapons that good smiths have already been making with krayt and gorax. The second is that they allow good WS to cap multiple stats of weapons and removing any element of interest or ability in weapon production. You don't need to know anything about what you're making. You don't need to know anything from the person you're making it for. You just need to slap it all in and charge an insane amount for "teh ub0rest weapon evah!"
And actually, I would also agree that krayt has become too powerful. Remember when we used to see a couple -0.3/+30 tissues and a very rare set of +100 tissues? Now I have people come to me for a couple weapons made with +150 tissues, and they give me 5 or so sets of tissues from 70 to 100+ because they "don't have room" and they're still holding a few more sets of +120 for later.
Oh yeah, and a couple of the people that I had talk to me about guns from the BH loot weren't even BH...they had BH friends give them extra. Yeah, really rare.
Also note that I never said the sky is falling. This was just a really freakin stupid move that seems to have people so focused on the money they can make from making "uber" guns with crazy loot that they lost all interest in actually working on their craft to become a better smith.
You didn't hit too close to the mark at all, actually I am confused by the contradictions in your posts. Will you be requesting the removal of krayt tissues too?? Or not?? You agree that they are too powerful now also.
Oh my god, BH have given some of their friends some EPCs that they've looted. Yet you go on to say that you are regularly given sets of krayt tissues. So they're not too common then??
And please, give it a rest with the ub3r l337 comments about 'hack' WS. You're making yourself look pompous. You know nothing about my weapons, their quality, my resources or how long I have been a WS.
Your inference is that it's only the less capable WS that like these items. As you're obviously the self-appointed spokesman for the WS elite I humbly tip my hat to you and apologise for liking these items.
I'll get back to making my useless without EPC / RC weapons.
Reading comprehension. Learn it.
First, I never said that I like getting krayt as you imply by saying there are contradictions. In fact, I said that it too has become overpowered in both quantity and quality. If you want me to assert a direction from this, I will. Krayt should be as rare as it once was. It used to be that I could maybe get a set of tissues or two in a long day with a friend, a couple maulers, and his ATST. It could take weeks to see anything around 100. Not to mention that most of this time was spent running around looking for spawns since those were hard to even find. This left WS free to refine their craft to what people say they want. Then, every once in a while, someone would bring krayt and they could pull out all the tricks and customize the product to just what the customer wants. IMO, it was a lot better than this loot obsessed mess that it has become.
I didn't imply that only less capable WS like these. That was point 1. (I won't imply anything here about how you took that one to heart) If you kept reading to point 2 you would see that I also said good WS that want a quick buck by multi-capping weapons want them too...want them to make weapons that bypass all need for asking what the customer needs in their weapon, and tweaking to meet those standards. Once that's gone, you have assembly monkeys. That's the key point you can't get through your thick skull! You spend your time chasing the SEAs, resources, and knowledge of how to tune weapons for the needs of certain people...then, bam...you have people bringing you loots like these and saying, "Fill her up." Or you buy loots like these and make crazy money. Well, maybe I'm crazy, but I like working on my craft, not just assembling loot and making money. That whole element is becoming lost in this profession, and it's being stolen by stronger and stronger loots.
You're obviously not able to engage in reasoned debate without resorting to playground abuse, therefore I won't reply to the rest of the obvious flaws in your argument.
/tiphat
Mor-Dan wrote:
FriedSquid wrote:
Mor-Dan wrote:
fried squid, you crack me up dude. you must be that guy on full tilt poker that calls me all-in when i have pocket rockets and you have 6/4 off suit. sure, you may win in the short run, but over the long term this short sightedness of yours is going to cause many problems.
how many people on ahazi today can afford to own 2 triple capped pistols, rifles, and carbines with ADKs? 10? 15? see, that's not even the right question, but it's what you are asking and answering. that's the immediate effect. the real question to be asking here is, how long until the main playing base has a full arsenal of triple capped weapons that are ADK'd? 3 months? probably not. 6 months? still unlikely. 1 year? now we may be getting close. this is a feasible scenario over this period of time. then again, in a year you'll have made your money. no skin off your back, huh? let the others worry about it.
economies, real or virtual, are not built on today, they are built on tomorrow (tomorrow being a metaphor for "the future"). supply and demand is existent no matter which universe you are in. the prices for these type of weapons will drop over time as the rich begin to fill their needs, leaving only the middle class as buyers, and they can only afford half of what the rich were paying. then they get their stuff, and now you only have newbies to buy. well you certainly can't sell stuff like this for 100k, now can you? i guess we'll have to hold onto everything for months at a time before it can be sold for what we consider a reasonable price.
will you even be a weaponsmith at this time next year? heck, i can't even say i know that i will be! but it doesn't change my position. i started this game July 2, 2003 with the aspiration to be a weaponsmith. not a great one, not the best ever, just a weaponsmith. i enjoy my job. i love working with people. i'm just hate what they have done to the product i have for sale. my goal is the long term viability of the Weaponsmith Profession. if you are too short sighted to see what dangers are in the road for us as a community, then perhaps we already have your answer for if you will still be in this profession next year...
You're not reading between the lines, Mor-Dan.
This game adds content or it dies. Period. I don't know if I'll be a WS in a year. I don't even know if I'll beplaying this game in oneor two more months. I've beena WSfor about a month and a half. BUT, my viewpoint is much different from yours because I have reached the point - in such a short time - where I can craft weapons to within a hair's breadth of as good as the best WS's on my server, if not slightly better in case of good weather / moon phase. It took a lot of effort and credits, but it was possible. I am absolutely sure that I've stocked up onmore of these power cells and casings than anyone else on my server. (6-7 sets total) I'm good at acquiring what I need to craft and craft well.... I make some of the best ship parts on my server even after entering the game late.
Now. As to what I see as the future for developmentwithin this game : Damage Type and Elemental Damage Will Matter More. There Will Be More Schems. What I wish you were pushing for harder is things like the Trando Rifle in the Avatar- it can be done, but it needs a WS along with some high end (HIGH end) combat to get to. Anyone can afford it given time and effort and teamwork.... I talk to a LOT of people who want me to do custom builds and I charge them a flat fee. I'm not really looking to make millions, I'm looking to build the best weapons around.
So I want these high end customers to come back again and again and again. To go out and 'spendlong hourshunting krayts'. (camping and grinding more slowly than normal) and then redistribute their wealth back tome for a new weapon afterI buy the tissue and the circle continues again and again? Doesn't usually work that way for me. They either buy one UBER weap that will last them through long hours of Jedi killing, Pup it and adk it, and go kill Jedi with it, or they ask where the grind weapons are. I then say, "Somewhere else, I hate factory runs with fiddly bits."
What's going to bring them back to me is if I can craft something that does some elemental damage, or works better than what they've got. Not that they've decided they want a little more speed at the expense of SAC. If they had wanted that, they'd have asked for that in the BEGINNING. They want something with actual different functionality, and 3 crafts of the same weapon isn't really what they're interested in...
Game changes and better items make excited and buying customers, not more of the same.
There is no way I would have spent this entire weekend attempting to loot high end krayt tissue. I'm just not interested. But tracking down BH targets for 12+ hours on end, and getting 0 casings or cells? Yeah, I'll do that, for some reason.
And as a side note - ADK's on my server have risen in price by 3-4M in the last week. That's a full 50% increase from the previous price. It is simply not possible to assemble the huge number of ADK's people suddenly want.
These weapons will become 'middle class' weapons if the components stick around at their current stats. Prices have already dropped to 1M or so per casing / cell, and a non-ADK'd weapon for 1.5M or so creds (my guess at an eventual price - although I also guess that this price will drop barring a nerf) isn't that bad a deal as credits get more plentiful. I fully expect prices to go back up after the incessant farming ends, or loot elsewhere gets better.
And before you knock 1.5M as a 'non-middle-class' item, remember how much meat, eggs, milkand hide are available on dant in bulk. Remember how much money is available in space. Remember how much money is brought into the game nowvia missions. Remember how easy it is to contract mine. I estimate average income to be something like 200-300k / hr. I've certainly made 3x that with my alt.
believe you me, i hear you. i want more stuff like the trando rifle. we were PROMISED more stuff like this in the CU alpha, to the tune of about 8-10 NEW schematics. there was a rumor going around in anaheim as to what happened that we didn't get all those schems, but i am not at liberty to repeat it, since it is still a rumor. but that's what i want. more lootable weapons that can also be crafted. not just be crafted, but be crafted and require mid to high end enhancers to match or exceed looted stadards, making both have value. these are all things i posted in my original statements to the dev team upon becomming the Correspondent. but, as i was told by the one who preceeded me, the wheels turn slow. it has only been about 4 months since i became Corr, and a few of the initial things we asked for have come to fruition, but most are still (hopefully) just hanging out in the pipeline. thanks to leakers who can't keep their mouths shut even under an NDA, we don't get near the level of communication we once did, but that's life. what it is obvious you missed from my statements is that in a year it is feasible that all these top end weapons from all the ADKs in the game from players who quit it is possible that no one but n00bs will need a base weapon anymore. that means everything in the game is on a continuing course of degrading value. one day this will be just like EQ, where if you aren't already uber when you start, you can forget about ever getting there unless you pretend to be a chick, or someone knows you, because people won't have anything to do with a level 46 wizar... err... rifleman. one day, they'll all be jedi and BH and nothing else will matter. the changes made and this new loot is taking the game out of the hands of crafters and putting it in the hands of looters. it's going to be January 2004 all over again (when krayt priced really started sky rocketing on my server). then, it will turn into June 2004, which is when the bottom fell out of the krayt market on anything that wasn't at least 100dmg. it's even worse right now. nothing has value unless it is over 125dmg. do you know how hard it was to find 110dmg krayt pre-CU? it was next to impossible. now the millions get shelled out for 150+, and then these power cells come in, starting at 156 (the first set i saw). everything i have seen since then is 170+, and i have seen 12 loot drops of this in stuff brought to me, and received tells/email asking about it from 15 other players. it drops, and even though it isn't as frequent as krayt, it is always higher by average in damage and speed mod, and then has the SAC to go along with it.
you've only been doing this prof for nearly two months, so i don't expect you to fully understand. i just ask you to trust those of us who have been dealing with this economy for over a year that we know what we are talking about. this is bad for the game, it's bad for our community, and it is destructive in the long term, not helpful. there will be those who make their millions, and then everyone else willbe stuck holding the bomb just before it goes off. i am concerned for those 'smiths who aren't masters yet that will out. i am concerned for those who buy up this stuff and get left holding the bag when something changes like it always does. i am not worried about me. i want the people of this profession to go on doing what they love without fear of a crashing market, and these new loots do not help this.