Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Proof that the players DO NOT know what they want
I am a 12pt WS. BUT, I am a 12 pt WS because I teamed up with another WS and we share everything. While my partner is crafting right now using our clothing I did some experimentation with 10 points. I was able to achieve "almost" the same stats that I achieved pre-patch. 2-3 points different on final assembly and 1 or same with many componets. Yes, 10 point WS will have lower stats. I agree that the economy is is horrible and stuff sells for outrageous prices. (Partly to blame because of trade forums)
In the current system can a 10 pt ws make profit. Absolutely. What do most people sell their weapons for. 10 cpu? 20 cpu. More like around the 50-70 cpu mark. So any WS with "lower" stat weapons can still make a profit just won't be as much as a profit.
In either system I had an advantage over a 10 pt WS. Logix, you said that customers don't look at condition and ham. I disagree. I sell 100-150 weapons a day on my vendor alone. (Not even including what my partner sells) There are a bunch ofother WS in the same area as me and I know that they don't sell the same volume as I do (Except for 2 that are about the same 12 pt ws as well). Why? Because it is known that we have better range, better ham, more condition.
EdOWar wrote:
And who the hell are you to claim you speak for the 'silent' crafters? If 90% of the smiths on the forums opposed these changes, then sure as hell about the same percentage of 'silent' smiths oppose them too. It's called statistics, you may learn about it some day.Slim Vargo, CorbantisWheee flames. You want to argue statistics with me? Alright lets do it. If you could somehow run a regression analysis to determine how well the views presented on the boards reflect the views of the games population you would end up with a low enough of an R-squared as to make the board's views statistically insignificant. The reason is pretty straightforward, posters on this forum are a self-selecting group, thus they can not be used as an accurate sample.
But I took your challenge. Previously on Wanderhome the best ABPHs that could be made were 20/40, today with 12 skill points I started pumping out 21/42s. I then dropped down to 11 skill points and made identical 21/42s. When I dropped down to 10 skill points I was back to making 20/40s. If I only used 3 skill points the result wasnt very good... so maybe you have a point there, lol. I love making T21s, its the rifleman in me, so I've messed around with them a bit today, I can make the same 416 T21 with 11 skill points that I can with 12 points, it just takes a few more attempted combines. With the introduction of WS toolkits you only need to come up with +7 skill point tapes to be at 11 points, I dont see how this is such a horrible burden on the community.
Look I have resources that date back to July, I mined them myself with my fleet of 10 personal harvestors, only a few k of each are left granted but when looking at this new system suddenly it makes a difference that I have a stock of the best of the best that has ever spawned. Isnt that the way it should be?
As it is now a smith who started on our server 6 weeks ago is almost indistinguishable from a smith who started 3 months ago and within a few points of a smith who started when the game went live. Complete market homogeny... this obviously is not the way the system was meant to work.
This just goes to show that some masters are only in it for themselves...what they deserve, and how big they want to inflate thier egos. No sense of responsiblity to thier community, "oh gee I can make my mon cal pee shooter have 2 more points of damage, screw everyone else". I can spit out more damage on pretty much everything I have made today...at the cost of other stats which are just as important in the long run... I can't believe some of you are crying about how you DESERVE to be able to add 2 more points of damage. And somehow we are the whiners? As an eleven soon to be 12 point smith I was against this change from the beginning I want to compete with other smiths, not have an unfair advantage over them. Selfish and self centered the lot of you.
How are your HAM costs on these new "much more powerful weapons"? How about accuracies? Some of you are as bad as a noob marksman "Speedanddamagespeedanddamagespeedanddamge!!!" gah you make me ill.
Message Edited by Reldun on 03-16-2004 03:27 PM
Reldun wrote:Selfish and self centered the lot of you.
How are your HAM costs on these new "much more powerful weapons"? How about accuracies? Some of you are as bad as a noob marksman "Speedanddamagespeedanddamagespeedanddamge!!!" gah you make me ill.
Accuracy is identical. HAM is 4 to 6 points higher on average which is completely irrelevant to most customers. Remember them? The customer? They are banging down the doors for the new guns, the customers love this change. But a few vocal WS's disaprove because it changes the status quo... now whos being "selfish and self centered"?
Message Edited by Gnosis on 03-16-2004 04:38 PM
Siymon wrote:
In the current system can a 10 pt ws make profit. Absolutely. What do most people sell their weapons for. 10 cpu? 20 cpu. More like around the 50-70 cpu mark. So any WS with "lower" stat weapons can still make a profit just won't be as much as a profit.
Logix wrote:
The patch changed nothing about resource-dependency. You have bad resources, you will make bad guns. Weaponsmiths know the second they try to sell weapons: Top-of-the-line resources are a #1 priority. Nothing changed here; the dependency is as high as it could ever be. The thing that changed was skill-tape dependency. Skill tapes make the gun now, not resources.
Resource dependency did change. Prior to today, minor differences in resource stats did not make a difference in weapons or components. Now, they do make a difference, which gives the longtime smiths the advantage that they should have since they have the great resources that spawned 4-6 months ago.
For example, on power handlers, prior to today, using 925 OQ Polymer made no difference over using 1000 OQ Polymer. Now it does, as it should.
As such, weapons are now more resource dependent as they should be.
Lol, isn't it pointless to have this argument now. These changes will be rolled back tomorrow by overwelming popular demand. There are valid points on both sides of the argument it just doesn't matter anymore. If you were in favor of the changes you should have voiced your opinion while it still matter. You didn't (or very few of you did), so get over it and move on.
Isis
TeeBee wrote:
As I posted elsewhere 10pt smiths like myself are now well and truely stiffed, the 12 pointers are making schematics as fast as they can (a 12pt WS friend sent me a tell saying he had 50 ABPH schematics and was making more as we spoke). Once they reverse the changes it will take months for the schematics being made today to filter through the system and even if you should get that +2 in the meantime you still cant compete because the changes will have been reversed.
The changes alone were bad, the reversal with 1 days play is just disasterous.
Yes, I see this as disasterious myself....although, my customer base is loyal enough to keep me afloat. So Unless they do a hotfix nerfing the schematics made today, your right, the 12 pointers will have even more of an edge on the market for a good while. Oh well...I'll just enjoy being a good ol' friendlysmith like I always do.
Cordalis wrote:
Yes, I see this as disasterious myself....although, my customer base is loyal enough to keep me afloat. So Unless they do a hotfix nerfing the schematics made today, your right, the 12 pointers will have even more of an edge on the market for a good while. Oh well...I'll just enjoy being a good ol' friendlysmith like I always do.
MilkToast wrote:Lol, isn't it pointless to have this argument now. These changes will be rolled back tomorrow by overwelming popular demand. There are valid points on both sides of the argument it just doesn't matter anymore. If you were in favor of the changes you should have voiced your opinion while it still matter. You didn't (or very few of you did), so get over it and move on.
Isis
I wouldn't be so sure about that
JustG wrote:>This is an opportunity for you all to play with the changes for a day, so in case we ever want to go down this road again, you will better understand what it is we want to do.Best,- g
LLJK_Griz wrote:
Siymon wrote:
In the current system can a 10 pt ws make profit. Absolutely. What do most people sell their weapons for. 10 cpu? 20 cpu. More like around the 50-70 cpu mark. So any WS with "lower" stat weapons can still make a profit just won't be as much as a profit.
Did you ever try selling things at non-master? No one buys them, because they're crap. This would be no different. If 12-point itemsbecome the new standard, then 10-point and everything below becomes crap, and no one will buy it.