Weaponsmith Archive

Message Edited by mindspat on 04-01-2005 05:51 PM

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sabacc1000 wrote:

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Karzon_X wrote:

I have played with frog weapons before, so generally they are about average for crafted weapons, so saying that they would add weapons that don't reflect server dynamic is probably off base.

I've seen the frog weapons range from just about right, to base, to wildly high, so i really don't trust anything from them. And even if they do reflect what the developers think will be appropriate levels of crafted items, the biggest problem with the current live system is that the original development team hugely underestimated the extent to which we would be able to squeak out extraordinary stats. Any tweaking that needs to be made (and trust me, there'll be tweaking) will need to be based off of how crafted weapons measure up, not what the frogs are spitting out.

Adnt eh dps base on those weapons is taken off from the damage and speed of those same weapons.. 35-40 damage .. speed 2... So, it's an average... that's what I'm looking at.. the dps listed on the weapon is just some eye candy for the lazy or math imparred.

I wasn't implying that you were simply reading off the DPS calculation from the weapon, but rather that the new system will incorporate cost/benefit tradeoffs with things like HAM costs, and how these numbers all work into the calculation during special moves, and that a simple consideration of damage and speed, in something as simplistic as an average, will no longer yield a heuristic quality assessment applicable to all weapons.

If the new speed formula is actually non-linear, for example, then two guns of the same DPS, but one of specialized in damage, and the other in speed, will behave markedly different with regard to different specials that operate at different speeds. So there may, in fact, be a use for a speedier weapon that may not be quite as high in DPS, in the right situation. (Yeah, i know that's vague, but without actual numbers to work with, I'm sorta at a loss for specifics).

Any nothing I said was anywheres near a "wild accusation" you post is a little closer to that than mine..

Sorry, that wasn't meant so much for you as for some others that have been getting crazy about this. I've been reading a lot of posts, I'm a bit tired, and I lost track of what I was addressing. I apologize for that.

There is no reason to believe that the "new player experience" should change the dynamic of the system when you progress, only the stats should change... if that's no thr case, then this system is really broken... but, since I'm right, it isn't.

So, a DL44 now only does at an average rate 50-100 points of ebergy damage a shot (don't remember what it actually was) at a speed of one shot every 2 seconds.. per the pistol stats.. (these are the weapons they gave us, and we are to test with these weapons, so conclusions should be based on testing materials, not abstract unknows such as what happens when it goes live.) The DE-10, a master cetification weapon does 300-700 points of energy damage at one shot every 2 seconds.... same action cost....

What I meant was that I'm guessing only the 2-3 weapons that we're actually able to use have been adequately brought into line. I don't know how the frogs work, coding-wise, but if it requires individual effort for each weapon, then there's no reason to think that, with everything they have to do still, that they wouldn't leave aligning the rest of the weapons for when they're appropriate. If they were using high stats weapons for some sort of internal testing, for example, they may just not have found the time to get back to it, since they're not really needed yet.

Now, since this is a testinf phase, and there is no reason to believe that they would give us weapons that were not on par with the system, Why would I possibly want to use the DL44 EVER after I get the certification for a pistol that does higher damage?

That is why I don't see this as a change at all, it's just emasculating the lower certification weapons, This discussion, that is actually being read by at least 1 developer, might be able to change this problem. Trying to stomp on someone else for their preveved problem is not constructive.

I'm really just trying to play devil's advocate until we have personal testing knowledge of the higher end combat / weapons. Anything that came off as more than purely debate was unintended.

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No harm done... I think I was probably reading into it more than I should have.. I was talking in the planetary chat on TC5... and the trolls there must have been getting to me... I also should spellcheck my posts... so many typos..

From what I gather there are going to be less damage modifiers applied to specials, as the specials will try to add more to the strategy.. i.e. states and such... So, from what I'm seeing the way they have tiered the power of the class is through more powerful weapons at different tiers. So a scout blaster will be to a martksman as a DE-10 is to a pistoleer.. I personally do not like this idea. I would like to see a better veriety of weapons at the upper level. So what it seems that they have done is, to add verietry, add a few more weapons at the top level... all with the same stats, so you don't have a veriety of choices, just weapon skins.. (which I think look like crap)

If it were me I'd just scrap all the weapoins as we have them now and completely redo the certifications, and alot of the weapon skins.. but then again, my WS toon dosn't have a million weapons stocked up

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mindspat wrote:

Maybe eventually I can actually get ON the server to test and can bring back some more information. It's pretty frustrating being a professional "correspondent" and having zero information about these kinds of changes to my profession. =(

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Well, what gets me is that there's players who lay claim to a need or desire to be involved although they lack the efforts to identify a work around. Sorry to post a semi flame...

As for ANYONE who wants to log in:

Click TC-5, if no log occures then you should cancel the attempt then immediatly reattempt. You shoudl be able to log on within 3-7 tries. I looged on even though the server was reported as locked due to excesive players. I was able to log in at wil using this method.

If someone is going to help they should be able to deviate from normal occurances and express ingenuity when "supporting" the community. (again, sorry to flame. I'm just a little anoyed of the correspondents who have lately been expressing a childish and unprofessional /rant relating to "wah! I cant log on! I'm a corresponant! I want my free ice cream!)

Mindspat / Igrat

WS / Jedi

Message Edited by mindspat on 04-01-2005 10:12 AM

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mindspat wrote:

Well, what gets me is that there's players who lay claim to a need or desire to be involved although they lack the efforts to identify a work around. Sorry to post a semi flame...

As for ANYONE who wants to log in:

Click TC-5, if no log occuresthen you should cancel the attempt then immediatly reattempt. You shoudl be able to log on within 3-7 tries. I looged on even though the server was reported as locked due to excesive players. I was able to log in at wil using this method.

If someone is going to help they should be able to deviate from normal occurances and express ingenuity when "supporting" the community. (again, sorry to flame. I'm just a little anoyed of the correspondents who have lately been expressing a childish and unprofessional /rant relating to "wah! I cant log on! I'm a corresponant! I want my free ice cream!)

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I tried your method for over an hour last night; you're hardly the only one who knows to cancel and immediately re-attempt if the "connecting to galaxy" box doesn't change over immediately. It did not work. I eventually gave up out of frustration and disgust, mostly because we all knew this was going to happen.

The point I'm trying to make here is that this community looks to me for answers, and not being able to provide them is frustrating. I believe that's what I said originally. I'm glad that other members of the WS community are willing and able to bring us information, but it makes me feel as if I'm not doing my "job" and that I'm letting you guys down even though it's due to circumstances beyond my control.

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RWC wrote:

Felton: Are the Devs talking to you much or at all about the changes?

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ShugFlurry wrote:
Felton: was there an actual Alpha where you played the CU? Or is this going to be your first taste of what its actually like?

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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SlaserX wrote:

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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Blackmoore wrote:

Are the recipes for the current weapons staying the same? Thanks.

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One thing I can think of off hand is that you won't be able to use advanced components in weapons that call for basic.

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That's... annoying. Is the opposite true too? Sometimes I like throwing non-advanced items in place of advanced ones.

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Basic components can go into weapons that call for advanced, but advanced components can not go into weapons that call for basic. One of the big reasons for this change is that the advanced components can seriously throw a low level weapon out of line, which isnon-optimal when trying to balance low-level content. It will also reinforce the fact that low-level smiths can compete in the supply of low-level combatants.

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Minerunner wrote:
I'm definately not a fan of Bowcasters not being any use in higher end stuff.

Perhaps maybe multiple types of Bowcasters certified at different levels of Rifleman... or perhaps lower the godawefully huge Stat bonuses for Wookies and give them a "level appropriate" certification based on their Health bar progression... as a Wookie gets better at combat in general they get to use the higher end bowcasters.

I'm just sick of seeing wookies with T21's or anything but bowcasters.

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Woah woah woah... back up the trolly. "godawefully huge stat bonuses" ?!?! Where did this come from?

I agree though... the only major problems with the caster right now is it cant hit for as good as a T21, and it has no AP (yay). I'm all in favor for any kind of wook buffs... we need it =X

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Fellstaff wrote:

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Minerunner wrote:
I'm definately not a fan of Bowcasters not being any use in higher end stuff.

Perhaps maybe multiple types of Bowcasters certified at different levels of Rifleman... or perhaps lower the godawefully huge Stat bonuses for Wookies and give them a "level appropriate" certification based on their Health bar progression... as a Wookie gets better at combat in general they get to use the higher end bowcasters.

I'm just sick of seeing wookies with T21's or anything but bowcasters.

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This actually brings up a general idea that would be great.

'Racial progression'. Giveevery orat least some of theraces a progression tree. As they get 'stronger' within professiong they get free (no skill point) boxes within their racial progression. this would be similar to the existing Force progression tree that advances as you gofrom force sensitive to jedi initiate to jedi padawan, etc. This would let Wookiees gain certs for new bowcasters or armor without tying it to a specific profession, though special abilities with the bowcaster would require some proficiency with ranged weapons ( a wookiee might be able to use the best bowcaster if they're a TKM, but they won't be able to do more than a basic ranged attack unless they have skill boxes in ranged professions).

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That sounds cool... it's probably a good idea, but the biggest issue there is, not all wooks use rifles (infact, not many of them do) o.-

I'm sure if the Caster could compete against the T21, then you'd see a bunch more, but it looks like just the opposite happened here :/

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SlaserX wrote:

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Fellstaff wrote:

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Minerunner wrote:
I'm definately not a fan of Bowcasters not being any use in higher end stuff.

Perhaps maybe multiple types of Bowcasters certified at different levels of Rifleman... or perhaps lower the godawefully huge Stat bonuses for Wookies and give them a "level appropriate" certification based on their Health bar progression... as a Wookie gets better at combat in general they get to use the higher end bowcasters.

I'm just sick of seeing wookies with T21's or anything but bowcasters.

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This actually brings up a general idea that would be great.

'Racial progression'. Give every or at least some of the races a progression tree. As they get 'stronger' within professiong they get free (no skill point) boxes within their racial progression. this would be similar to the existing Force progression tree that advances as you go from force sensitive to jedi initiate to jedi padawan, etc. This would let Wookiees gain certs for new bowcasters or armor without tying it to a specific profession, though special abilities with the bowcaster would require some proficiency with ranged weapons ( a wookiee might be able to use the best bowcaster if they're a TKM, but they won't be able to do more than a basic ranged attack unless they have skill boxes in ranged professions).

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That sounds cool... it's probably a good idea, but the biggest issue there is, not all wooks use rifles (infact, not many of them do) o.-

I'm sure if the Caster could compete against the T21, then you'd see a bunch more, but it looks like just the opposite happened here :/

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