Weaponsmith Archive

---

Helios_SOE wrote:

Basic components can go into weapons that call for advanced, but advanced components can not go into weapons that call for basic. One of the big reasons for this change is that the advanced components can seriously throw a low level weapon out of line, which isnon-optimal when trying to balance low-level content. It will also reinforce the fact that low-level smiths can compete in the supply of low-level combatants.

---

To me, this seems a good way to help balance the novice smiths against the master ones. It's not outrageous, and seems fair.

Maybe eventually I can actually get ON the server to test and can bring back some more information. It's pretty frustrating being a professional "correspondent" and having zero information about these kinds of changes to my profession. =(

I'm definately not a fan of Bowcasters not being any use in higher end stuff.

Perhaps maybe multiple types of Bowcasters certified at different levels of Rifleman... or perhaps lower the godawefully huge Stat bonuses for Wookies and give them a "level appropriate" certification based on their Health bar progression... as a Wookie gets better at combat in general they get to use the higher end bowcasters.

I'm just sick of seeing wookies with T21's or anything but bowcasters.

This will be an interesting change ... I take it to mean that some weapons, for example, will require Blaster Power Handlers (non-Advanced) and will not be able to take the advanced version?

Time to start stocking up on materials to make those regular components ...

---

Barb-Wire wrote:

the DH17 was the rebel equivelent of the Imperial E11 under the current CU both are freeking useless once you hit novice carbine.... *sigh* i thought that iconic weapons would be useful through out the skill levels. silly me. back to everyone lugging around the same sad mix of weapons. a DL44 in the hands of a master smuggler should be effective while the exact same DL44 in the hands of a novice should not.

you guys are making the same mistake you did before. basically it forces everyone to use the same weapon once you hit master.

---

*****

This is exactly right. If you want to see a mix of weapons in the hands of people you can't make them almost all energy and now expect people to use one that does less averall damage. I've been looking at the DPS on those, and can't figure out why I would even bother to use some of them. In the current game I enjoy running around witha DL 44, or a power5 pistol, because they actually look Star Warsy... but after the CURB goes live... those same weapons in the hands of my master pistoleer/master Smuggler will be garbage..

and personally, I think that most of the new pistols look terrible.. as a Master Smuggler, I'm not going to run around with that hair dryer looking Renegade. No offense to the art person who did that, but it's really terrible... and the Intimidator.... If I wanted a carbine, I'd pick up a carbine.. pistols = small.. 1 handed.. if it looks wierd for them to be carried one handed.. ala T21ish.. then rethink the look of it.

/endrant

Message Edited by mindspat on 04-01-2005 10:12 AM

---

Karzon_X wrote:

This is exactly right. If you want to see a mix of weapons in the hands of people you can't make them almost all energy and now expect people to use one that does less averall damage. I've been looking at the DPS on those, and can't figure out why I would even bother to use some of them. In the current game I enjoy running around witha DL 44, or a power5 pistol, because they actually look Star Warsy... but after the CURB goes live... those same weapons in the hands of my master pistoleer/master Smuggler will be garbage..

---

---

Helios_SOE wrote:

---

Blackmoore wrote:

Are the recipes for the current weapons staying the same? Thanks.

---

One thing I can think of off hand is that you won't be able to use advanced components in weapons that call for basic.

---

Two scenarios for you Helio...

You have a basic weapon with advanced components in your inventory when CU goes live. What happens? Weapon useless, weapon greatly reduced in power, weapon greatly enhanced in power, etc.

You have a crate of basic weapons with advanced components in you inventory, you pull out one of the weapons and it "insta-crafts" Tm - TH itself. What happend? Weapon stuck in crate (like the infamous heat pistol incident), weapon insta-crafts but is useless, weapon instacrafts with greatly reduced power, weapon instacrafts with greatly enhanced power, etc.

Thanks,

Bryan1138

---

mindspat wrote:

Maybe eventually I can actually get ON the server to test and can bring back some more information. It's pretty frustrating being a professional "correspondent" and having zero information about these kinds of changes to my profession. =(

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, what gets me is that there's players who lay claim to a need or desire to be involved although they lack the efforts to identify a work around. Sorry to post a semi flame...

As for ANYONE who wants to log in:

Click TC-5, if no log occures then you should cancel the attempt then immediatly reattempt. You shoudl be able to log on within 3-7 tries. I looged on even though the server was reported as locked due to excesive players. I was able to log in at wil using this method.

If someone is going to help they should be able to deviate from normal occurances and express ingenuity when "supporting" the community. (again, sorry to flame. I'm just a little anoyed of the correspondents who have lately been expressing a childish and unprofessional /rant relating to "wah! I cant log on! I'm a corresponant! I want my free ice cream!)

Mindspat / Igrat

WS / Jedi

Message Edited by mindspat on 04-01-2005 10:12 AM

---

Would you rather your correspondent logged on or some guy who logged on saw a "Nightsister Energy Lance" went WOW then quit since he couldnt equip it?

---

sabacc1000 wrote:

---

Karzon_X wrote:

This is exactly right. If you want to see a mix of weapons in the hands of people you can't make them almost all energy and now expect people to use one that does less averall damage. I've been looking at the DPS on those, and can't figure out why I would even bother to use some of them. In the current game I enjoy running around witha DL 44, or a power5 pistol, because they actually look Star Warsy... but after the CURB goes live... those same weapons in the hands of my master pistoleer/master Smuggler will be garbage..

---

First off, DPS is almost certainly not going to be the sole criterion of weapons anymore. Things like HAM matter.

Second, the stats you're using to make these wild accusations are based solely on weapons pulled off the frogs. They're just for initial testing purposes. Those will most certainly not be the stats on the crafted weapons, so making any kind of judgments based off them is just silly.

The items available and testing being done right now are on the new player experience only. Once we get some better information, or perhaps are able to craft one of these weapons using actual resources, then we can take a look at what might need to be tweaked. But before that, speculation about arbitrary numbers with absolutely no play-testing is really premature.

---

I have played with frog weapons before, so generally they are about average for crafted weapons, so saying that they would add weapons that don't reflect server dynamic is probably off base. Adnt eh dps base on those weapons is taken off from the damage and speed of those same weapons.. 35-40 damage .. speed 2... So, it's an average... that's what I'm looking at.. the dps listed on the weapon is just some eye candy for the lazy or math imparred.

Any nothing I said was anywheres near a "wild accusation" you post is a little closer to that than mine..

There is no reason to believe that the "new player experience" should change the dynamic of the system when you progress, only the stats should change... if that's no thr case, then this system is really broken... but, since I'm right, it isn't.

So, a DL44 now only does at an average rate 50-100 points of ebergy damage a shot (don't remember what it actually was) at a speed of one shot every 2 seconds.. per the pistol stats.. (these are the weapons they gave us, and we are to test with these weapons, so conclusions should be based on testing materials, not abstract unknows such as what happens when it goes live.) The DE-10, a master cetification weapon does 300-700 points of energy damage at one shot every 2 seconds.... same action cost....

Now, since this is a testinf phase, and there is no reason to believe that they would give us weapons that were not on par with the system, Why would I possibly want to use the DL44 EVER after I get the certification for a pistol that does higher damage?

That is why I don't see this as a change at all, it's just emasculating the lower certification weapons, This discussion, that is actually being read by at least 1 developer, might be able to change this problem. Trying to stomp on someone else for their preveved problem is not constructive.

---

Karzon_X wrote:

I have played with frog weapons before, so generally they are about average for crafted weapons, so saying that they would add weapons that don't reflect server dynamic is probably off base.

I've seen the frog weapons range from just about right, to base, to wildly high, so i really don't trust anything from them. And even if they do reflect what the developers think will be appropriate levels of crafted items, the biggest problem with the current live system is that the original development team hugely underestimated the extent to which we would be able to squeak out extraordinary stats. Any tweaking that needs to be made (and trust me, there'll be tweaking) will need to be based off of how crafted weapons measure up, not what the frogs are spitting out.

Adnt eh dps base on those weapons is taken off from the damage and speed of those same weapons.. 35-40 damage .. speed 2... So, it's an average... that's what I'm looking at.. the dps listed on the weapon is just some eye candy for the lazy or math imparred.

I wasn't implying that you were simply reading off the DPS calculation from the weapon, but rather that the new system will incorporate cost/benefit tradeoffs with things like HAM costs, and how these numbers all work into the calculation during special moves, and that a simple consideration of damage and speed, in something as simplistic as an average, will no longer yield a heuristic quality assessment applicable to all weapons.

If the new speed formula is actually non-linear, for example, then two guns of the same DPS, but one of specialized in damage, and the other in speed, will behave markedly different with regard to different specials that operate at different speeds. So there may, in fact, be a use for a speedier weapon that may not be quite as high in DPS, in the right situation. (Yeah, i know that's vague, but without actual numbers to work with, I'm sorta at a loss for specifics).

Any nothing I said was anywheres near a "wild accusation" you post is a little closer to that than mine..

Sorry, that wasn't meant so much for you as for some others that have been getting crazy about this. I've been reading a lot of posts, I'm a bit tired, and I lost track of what I was addressing. I apologize for that.

There is no reason to believe that the "new player experience" should change the dynamic of the system when you progress, only the stats should change... if that's no thr case, then this system is really broken... but, since I'm right, it isn't.

So, a DL44 now only does at an average rate 50-100 points of ebergy damage a shot (don't remember what it actually was) at a speed of one shot every 2 seconds.. per the pistol stats.. (these are the weapons they gave us, and we are to test with these weapons, so conclusions should be based on testing materials, not abstract unknows such as what happens when it goes live.) The DE-10, a master cetification weapon does 300-700 points of energy damage at one shot every 2 seconds.... same action cost....

What I meant was that I'm guessing only the 2-3 weapons that we're actually able to use have been adequately brought into line. I don't know how the frogs work, coding-wise, but if it requires individual effort for each weapon, then there's no reason to think that, with everything they have to do still, that they wouldn't leave aligning the rest of the weapons for when they're appropriate. If they were using high stats weapons for some sort of internal testing, for example, they may just not have found the time to get back to it, since they're not really needed yet.

Now, since this is a testinf phase, and there is no reason to believe that they would give us weapons that were not on par with the system, Why would I possibly want to use the DL44 EVER after I get the certification for a pistol that does higher damage?

That is why I don't see this as a change at all, it's just emasculating the lower certification weapons, This discussion, that is actually being read by at least 1 developer, might be able to change this problem. Trying to stomp on someone else for their preveved problem is not constructive.

I'm really just trying to play devil's advocate until we have personal testing knowledge of the higher end combat / weapons. Anything that came off as more than purely debate was unintended.

---

---

mindspat wrote:

Maybe eventually I can actually get ON the server to test and can bring back some more information. It's pretty frustrating being a professional "correspondent" and having zero information about these kinds of changes to my profession. =(

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, what gets me is that there's players who lay claim to a need or desire to be involved although they lack the efforts to identify a work around. Sorry to post a semi flame...

As for ANYONE who wants to log in:

Click TC-5, if no log occures then you should cancel the attempt then immediatly reattempt. You shoudl be able to log on within 3-7 tries. I looged on even though the server was reported as locked due to excesive players. I was able to log in at wil using this method.

If someone is going to help they should be able to deviate from normal occurances and express ingenuity when "supporting" the community. (again, sorry to flame. I'm just a little anoyed of the correspondents who have lately been expressing a childish and unprofessional /rant relating to "wah! I cant log on! I'm a corresponant! I want my free ice cream!)

Mindspat / Igrat

WS / Jedi

Message Edited by mindspat on 04-01-2005 10:12 AM

---

Ya I'm sure Felton clicked to log in just once then quit...
/sarcasm off

---

sabacc1000 wrote:

As of yet, we're unable to get WS skills, so we can't see the schematics.

---

/|\ Crystal Clear

This talk about "Fenton" and "Correspondents", "whining" because they cannot get on to TC doesn't even make sense,even if he/she could, alot of things are disabled, blocked or locked & thus leaving everyone, including them in the dark (this upsets me, Im no correspondent and wish he/she had more info than I do). These aligations (of whining, and having unprofessional attidutes. because they postedwith humanity) areunfounded, or just total misinterpritation on a few persons behalf.