Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: The ADK Discussion
Summerflame wrote:
KammaRocca wrote:
Considering the average time a player subscribes to a MMORPG before he gets bored and leaves the game, I'd much rather sell one rifle for 14 millionup frontand never see the customer again than possibly sell 28 for even 500k over time simply because it would take over a year to make the same amount at the lower price(and that's assuming the customer is still playing the game the entire timeand doesn't buy from another weaponsmith.)
One piece of advice I learned from my economics class is it's always better to have the lump sum up front than paid in installments, especially in a situation where the payments might not be constant. If I were a weaponsmith, I'd probably even sell pre-ADK'd weapons and cash in twice.
Message Edited by KammaRocca on 10-22-2005 04:18 PM
yeah if you are only in it for the credits that would probably be okay, but most of us play out of love for the profession and for the crafting in itself
Another bit of advice I learned from my economics class is that if everybody is doing what's best for themselves, everybody will be better off.
Looking in from the outside, I see a high demand for quality weapons but a low supply. Every ADK'ed weaponlowers the demand for high-quality weapons, but also increases the supply. The decrease in demand and increase in supply lowers the market price of said weapons. In the meantime, every ADK'ed weapon decreases the available supply of ADK's and raises the price of ADK's. If you graph the supply and demand curves, there is a point where it becomes cheaper to just keep buying weapons than it is to buy an ADK. It is also, incidentally, the reason that rising ADK prices are actually more indicitive of deflation than inflation.
That being said, here is the single best idea to pass on to the devs regarding ADK's ever: Increase loot drop rates for high-quality weapon components and resource concentrations and ADK's become a non-issue. That drives weapon supply up while simultaneously reducing the impact of ADK's on the profession (ADK's and weapons are really substitute goods--the demand for an ADK is really a demand for whatever is being protected in disguise).
Or if you want a solution without the devs even becoming involved at all, work with your suppliers to bring prices down. Show your friendly neighborhood bounty hunter how he can benefit if he sells you those enhanced power cells for a lower price--bounty hunters offering me even one finely crafted toolset did wonders in bringing my slicing prices down to nothing when I was a smuggler(and I'm still a sucker for finely crafted toolsets even though I dropped smuggler entirely).You just have to figure out what bounty hunters are suckers for.
KammaRocca wrote:
....
Good points.
Something else to consider is that the current increase in the price of ADK's is probably due to an increasing number of jedi that have started to build good sabers and want to protect them as well as people wanting to protect their +25 attachments in clothes and armor. (0 condition may not last forever)
In both cases the items being protected cost far more then your best loot made weapons. Soon it will make little sense to be using them on regular weapons since the price people are willing to pay to protect sabers and rare attachments hasn't been reached yet. If it cost 100m in good pearls to get four perfect tunes 99m for an ADK may make sense.
Message Edited by fabkins on 10-22-2005 12:17 PM
To answer the forum correspondant question, I dont see that ADKs really effect me negatively much. I am one of the WS that sells high end expensive weapons but frankly when i need a money boost and actually put some effort into production I made a good amount of money (80mil in just over a week) by selling mainly weapons 500k-4mil.
It was a fully time exercise and my fighting character never got out in that period at all. So if I was dedicated to crafting I could certainly make money and enjoy providing the community with weapons at a more affordable price (yes 500k-4mil is the new affordable price lol).
The side of the business I MOST enjoy however is making the high end where people are going to ADK the weapon, money is no object and we try to break new boundaries in weapon stats. If you get rid of the ADK (i know the thread isnt saying that) I would see that side of the business go away as people arent going to spend either the effort and money into making a weapon that will be a piece of mush in 6 weeks.
I also follow the forum auctioneconomy a lot and my observation is that ADKed weapons are hard to trade or sale. Ive personally traded a few and its a royal pain in the butt. I still however think that an ADKed weapon being bio-linked to its owner is a cool idea but doubt it will make substentialdifference to the profession.
Message Edited by fabkins on 10-23-2005 01:24 AM
Forget about nerfing ADK's.... God we don't need more nerfs...
How about getting the Dev's to give more variance to melee weapons?
I would love to have more range on a 2H weapon
or
Damage and speed to match a riflemans weapon
or
Sac to match any ranged toons weapons
Me not being able to sell my Chest plate with my +25's cause it's ADK or my uber hammer (ADK'D) cause I want go Fencer or Ranged etc.. is wrong
ADK's are like a storage vault for some my cash... I craft but I love combat too! All my toons by ton's of weapons, armor, food, spice, etc...
You need more variation, greater loot enhancers, and the chance of Uber variance when you get the perfect roll of the dice.... It might make me pay to have 30 uber hammers made if thier was even a chance of an uber above cap weapon.
funny....i remember i had ONE weapon to do all my damage in pvp.....what was it...oh thats right..STUN....granted now the only types u have now are kinetic and energy...but i have seen several customers asking me for both kinetic AND energy guns.....i never recall making a weapon for someone precu to have a specific damage other then a STUN weapon....before CU everyone was eithe rpistols or rifles...toting around a Jawa Ion Rifle or a Geo Blaster. Ive noticed a huge increase in other professions since the CU...i dont agree with everything about the CU but i do agree with the fasct that they shifted everything away from stun damage....
Imaridril wrote:
As both a weaponsmith and a combat player, I say that there's no reason to change the ADK at all. Even if all ADKs were removed completely from the game, weaponsmith would still have MAJOR issues. The following are all issues that I think impact theweapon market MUCH MORE than ADKS...
1. No Variation Between Weapons - Most players only need to have a single weapon in their arsenal to do everything. Pre-CU there was a wide range of damage types, and players had an incentive to carry a mix of weapons for different situations. That is no longer the case post-CU.
ofcourse the number can not be greater than 1 per account.As I already stated I got 10 ADKs, this represents 7 people that no longer play so yes the average is 1 adk per account... but the real average is 3.3 ADKs per active acount 2 of which are pure crafters that have no use for them so it really equals 10 ADKs per combat toon.
Dekka1 wrote:
shilo2 wrote:
How old are you? have you even began basic math?
I am stating an average. sure some people may not even have an ADK, but im talking about averages. Look at the birth rates, for the States the birth rate is something like 2.5
How is that possible when some people dont even have kids, and how do you have .5 of a kid?
Its an average, not a solid number.
The average per person, at its best, cannot be more than one per person for ADKs. Simple as that. People quit, sure, and some may leave their ADKs on their toon and others may sell, some (and at this time most, I'd wager) people are newer than a year so they get no ADKs.
The only number you know for sure is that there cannot be more than 1 ADK per account. Many people play across different servers as well - they do NOT get another ADK. Still only one per account, despite that account being responsible for more than 1 toon. It is impossible for the average to be any more than 1. And it is impossible, in practice, for it to get THAT high.
That's basic math.
Message Edited by Dekka1 on 10-21-2005 02:47 PM
Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about an average across any given server and not an average of your own toons. I thought there might have been some confusion along those lines because a serverwide average you were claiming was laughable. Glad we got that cleared up.
maigy wrote:
ofcourse the number can not be greater than 1 per account.As I already stated I got 10 ADKs, this represents 7 people that no longer play so yes the average is 1 adk per account... but the real average is 3.3 ADKs per active acount 2 of which are pure crafters that have no use for them so it really equals 10 ADKs per combat toon.
Dekka1 wrote:
shilo2 wrote:
How old are you? have you even began basic math?
I am stating an average. sure some people may not even have an ADK, but im talking about averages. Look at the birth rates, for the States the birth rate is something like 2.5
How is that possible when some people dont even have kids, and how do you have .5 of a kid?
Its an average, not a solid number.
The average per person, at its best, cannot be more than one per person for ADKs. Simple as that. People quit, sure, and some may leave their ADKs on their toon and others may sell, some (and at this time most, I'd wager) people are newer than a year so they get no ADKs.
The only number you know for sure is that there cannot be more than 1 ADK per account. Many people play across different servers as well - they do NOT get another ADK. Still only one per account, despite that account being responsible for more than 1 toon. It is impossible for the average to be any more than 1. And it is impossible, in practice, for it to get THAT high.
That's basic math.
Message Edited by Dekka1 on 10-21-2005 02:47 PM
I never claimed a serverwide average or any other average.... I just used myself to show how the average of relevent people with ADKs is what matters not the fact that the average is less than 1 per account... who cares aboutt eh 7 people that no longer play that gave me there ADKs. The average that would really mean something is the total number of ADKs in the hands of activecombat toons/the total number of active combat toons. I have a feeling that this is greater than 1.
Dekka1 wrote:
Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about an average across any given server and not an average of your own toons. I thought there might have been some confusion along those lines because a serverwide average you were claiming was laughable. Glad we got that cleared up.
maigy wrote:
ofcourse the number can not be greater than 1 per account.As I already stated I got 10 ADKs, this represents 7 people that no longer play so yes the average is 1 adk per account... but the real average is 3.3 ADKs per active acount 2 of which are pure crafters that have no use for them so it really equals 10 ADKs per combat toon.
Dekka1 wrote:
shilo2 wrote:
How old are you? have you even began basic math?
I am stating an average. sure some people may not even have an ADK, but im talking about averages. Look at the birth rates, for the States the birth rate is something like 2.5
How is that possible when some people dont even have kids, and how do you have .5 of a kid?
Its an average, not a solid number.
The average per person, at its best, cannot be more than one per person for ADKs. Simple as that. People quit, sure, and some may leave their ADKs on their toon and others may sell, some (and at this time most, I'd wager) people are newer than a year so they get no ADKs.
The only number you know for sure is that there cannot be more than 1 ADK per account. Many people play across different servers as well - they do NOT get another ADK. Still only one per account, despite that account being responsible for more than 1 toon. It is impossible for the average to be any more than 1. And it is impossible, in practice, for it to get THAT high.
That's basic math.
Message Edited by Dekka1 on 10-21-2005 02:47 PM
I don't play on live much. The guild WS lived in New Orleans and hasn't been heard from since Katrina and two other people in our guild don't play much anymore. Between us we had a lot, and I mean a lot of ADK's that aren't in play anymore.
Dekka1 wrote:
maigy wrote:
Dekka1 wrote:
ObiQuixote wrote:
The average is something else we just don't know. While some people may have sold their ADK's to players then quit, there also a lot of people that bought 10 and then quit.
I don't play on live much. The guild WS lived in New Orleans and hasn't been heard from since Katrina and two other people in our guild don't play much anymore. Between us we had a lot, and I mean a lot of ADK's that aren't in play anymore.
Apparently I was right about what he was claiming the first time. That's unfortunate.
Gee troll much... you cant read... you are wrong about what I was cliaming, because I never claimed what you think I did. You attributed someone elses post to me, cause you are just trolling and thought it would be fun.
Simmer down, son. You said "relevent players havemorethan oneper account." Turns out you are agreeing with a silly premise. Which is, like it or not, unfortunate.
Message Edited by Dekka1 on 10-24-2005 03:22 PM
All I can do is supply what numbers I can and then try to project these to the greater population...
I went to MO and did a quick poll of a group I was in.... 8 people
CL 80- 10 ADKs(me)
CL 73- 2 ADKs
CL 80- 2 ADKs
CL 80- 0 ADKs
CL 13- 0 ADKs
CL 80- 7 ADKs/2
CL15- 0 ADKs
CL 80- 1 ADK
this is by no means necessarily an accurate picture, but I thought it was an interesting poll... I ask them if this was their only combat toon on this server andthey all said yes except the CL 80 he said that his alt was also a combat toon.
So, if you totalled up the ADKs we had 22 if you divde that by 9(accounting for the guy with 2 toons) 2.4 ADKs per relevant person.
Yep.
maigy wrote:
this is by no means necessarily an accurate picture...