Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: How to Beat a Teras Kasi Master
3D4D
Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:06 pm
#40
"but your way to beat a TKM involves getting 80% comp (can't even put that stuff on without buffs and my secondaries are maxed), buying shields and food that take constant renewal and getting buffs every time. That's not balance, that's attempting to overcome an unbalance through means not related to the unbalance."
If there is any unbalance then explain why we only have one damage type? That is the advantage, you don't even need the best kinetic armor, just get a 50% ubese suit. If you can't afford that then you should stay away from PvP. Anyone can participate in PvP, but if you want to win you got to use the right equipment, just like in any sport. Should the NFL nerf the Green Bay Packers because they have better equipment and resources than the Chicago Bears?
If there is any unbalance then explain why we only have one damage type? That is the advantage, you don't even need the best kinetic armor, just get a 50% ubese suit. If you can't afford that then you should stay away from PvP. Anyone can participate in PvP, but if you want to win you got to use the right equipment, just like in any sport. Should the NFL nerf the Green Bay Packers because they have better equipment and resources than the Chicago Bears?
Asquiol
Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:02 pm
#41
One thing I left out in my reply is that, though I PvP everyday,I do not wear armor.Well, I wear a comp helm, and thats it. Other then that I wear BE clothes with skill tapes. And now with the introduciton of BE foods, like Synthsteak, I have less of a need for armor.
Armor is helpful, but for certain classes it is not necessary.
The other night in AH, I dueled the same template as I am. TKM/Doc. He had full 80% Kinetic comparmor on, I had just a helm. After about 11 minutes of dueling I did end up winning, and only because he had a muon downer and I still had 2 minutes left on my muon.It wasn't about armor here, but about using strategy and wearing him down.
Not to brag, but I frequently kill people wearing full80% comp armor while I wear just a helm and clothes. Granted my ability to heal excess amounts of damage, and the foods I use compensate for a lack of armor, but my point is that armor is not totally necessary.
LordSaibot
Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:55 am
#42
to be fair, the original poster metioned Awkward as a good pvper. He does (did) have at least the meditation line. So, technically he was a teras kasi artist too.
Taliesyn42
Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:40 am
#43
LordSaibot wrote:
to be fair, the original poster metioned Awkward as a good pvper. He does (did) have at least the meditation line. So, technically he was a teras kasi artist too.
Actually, the last time I fought Awkward (a couple days before the last major update), he knocked me down and promptly started spamming UA3. He also used Warcry2 and had the "Master Swordsman" title, so at that particular point, he was confirmed as TKM/Master Brawler/Master Swordsman. I don't know his tertiary profession picks, but he was nearly impossible to hit (he swears he's taken no fencer, but that's as far as he was willing to talk about his build). Now? I have no idea - I've not been able to play much at all over the last two weeks, thanks to moving halfway across the country. I do know he's incredibly competitive and all about winning in PvP, so it's quite possible he's shifted over to CM/Rifleman.
Taliesyn42
Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:01 am
#44
Asquiol,
1) Lunge1 is only 15m. I've tried it any number of times, and have never even made the attack from over 15m away.
2) By stacker, I was referring to people pushing block/counter/dodge to the 125 cap and melee and ranged defense as high as they possibly can. I wasn't even meaning it derogitavely - my guide was really just about the people who whine about TKM alone, and was about how to beat your basic TKM. A character who is TKM/Fencer 4040/Master Swordsman is an entirely different league of opponent than, say, a TKM/CH or even TKM/Doctor.
3) If you had read the thread before replying, you'd have seen that I had already conceded the point on the brandy/fishak - for some reason I was temporarily insane and thinking that would all fit.
4) Re: point 7 - Yes, if you want to make this a discussion on how to shore up the weaknesses of a TKM, that point would even be valid. However, the point of the discussion is to teach people approaches to beat a TKM, and profession-wise, our weakness to special attacks is our Achilles' Heel.
5) Re: point 9 - See #4 above. Again, this post is to teach people how to take advantage of TKM weaknesses, now how TKM'scan improve against those weaknesses. To counter your argument, once you turn back, the kiter can now stop and start taking potshots at you again. And you can counter that argument, then I can counter yours, and we hijack the entire thread away from the proposed topic if <b>How to Beat a Teras Kasi</b>.
6) Re: point 11 - I'm not decrying the process; I'm stating that someone stacking defenses is an entirely different animal than your typical Teras Kasi, and as such, they are not valid targets for the conversation. In a nutshell, re-read my original post and pay attention to my comments stating that if you're facing a stacked pvp template and you're not using one yourself, all other things being equal, you're toast if you fight, regardless of what you do.
And for your summary....I have no problem with stacking, and I'm sorry you thought I did. Stacking is simply a means of developing a character into a PvP template, and is perfectly legitimate. Nowhere will you find me decrying the practice or whining about it - it's a tool, and if you want to win in PvP, it's a tool you will use. Besides, it would be fairly hypocritical of me to condemn the tactic, now wouldn't it, seeing as I'm a TKM/Fencer, myself?
Taliesyn42
Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:03 am
#45
Stupid system - it said my post was rejected due to inappropriate language and gave me a blank message form, so I backed up and submitted again. If I were a veteran, I'd delete the bloody post - any chance of a mod deleting this and one of the doubles?
Taliesyn42
Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:21 am
#46
GTOfire, I hate to say this, but your case doesn't hold water.
First off, our melee mitigation only cuts the damage we take by about half (melee defense has no bearing on that - melee defense influences the chance to hit us, not the damage we take - look at fencers to see the difference). So if you were only hitting your unarmored TKM friend for 60 a shot, that means with your curved 2-hander, you were only hitting for about 120-140 before mitigation, meaning with the head hit 3 damage bonus, you're using a 2-hander that normally hits for perhaps 30 points of damage.
Second, you were obviously trying to lose - if you were actually trying to win that fight, you'd have intimidated him when he got up, and you'd have used 2-hand attack 3 rather than head hit 3 when he was on the ground. (When no one is buffed, there's no real need to only attack the head, especially if the person you're fighting cannot heal.)
Third, you're whining about having to use armor? Hell, that's right up there with ranged professions whining because they lost after letting a TKM run up and beat the hell out of them. TKM's are the game's tanks. They deal damage, and they take it. They can inflict every state except fire, and they have minor ability to target pools (but as I said, they only deal about 1/5 the damage using targeted attacks as they do using UA3).
Fourth, the doc buff thing is fine as far as it goes, but for my essay to apply, either both sides have to be buffed, or neither. To be honest, TK are far more dangerous buffed than not, as their special attack spam drains their mind ridiculously fast if they use VK's, and if they don't, it drains very fast and they do quite a bit less damage. And to be honest, my essay was written assuming both sides would be buffed, else I wouldn't have harped the importance of attacking mind if you have the ability to do so.
Finally, I never said you had to be a master swordsman - you invented that yourself in your desperate desire to prove me wrong. I gave swordsman as a profession able to attack the head, that's it. Almost every combat profession has something it does well, and you need to use those specialties to beat a TKM, because TKM was <b>MADE</b> for general brawling. That's like a doctor whining that he can't get any healing xp in a group because a CM is keeping the entire party healed. Bounty Hunters have fire knockdown, 8k+ shots from lightning cannons, and Eyeshot. Commandos have fire and hit *REALLY* freaking hard. Smugglers can knockdown, delay, and get the hell out of dodge. Etc, etc, etc. The key is to know your profession's strong points, then USE them, just as the TKM's people whine about use theirs!
Now for your homework, you need to go back and read what I really wrote, not what you want me to have written.
Tarak_Rexus
Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:16 am
#47
/flamesingle 2 <insert TKM player name>
<TKM player name> has fallen incapacitated.
Asquiol
Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:44 am
#48
/extinguish
The flames around you subside.
/healself
/unarmedKnockdown2
/unarmedHeadhit1 X 10
Commando has fallen incapacitated.
Commando is no more.
/meditate
Wounds? What wounds?
Asquiol
Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:55 am
#49
Taliesyn42 wrote:
Asquiol,
1) Lunge1 is only 15m. I've tried it any number of times, and have never even made the attack from over 15m away.
I have tested this numerous times. Start a duel, have your opponent stand 20m away, and lunge1. You will hit them. Perhaps you mean when you are chasing someone? In that case, yes. Because of server latency it appears it has a 15m range, but that is simplydue to lag. Unless its been stealth nerfed since the last patch, since I haven't actually tested it this way since Pub 7.
3) If you had read the thread before replying, you'd have seen that I had already conceded the point on the brandy/fishak - for some reason I was temporarily insane and thinking that would all fit.
No I read it, I just wasnt clear on your point, it seemed you were saying that after 2 brandies you could also pop aFishak.
But ya, we agree... Fishak is evil.
6) Re: point 11 - I'm not decrying the process; I'm stating that someone stacking defenses is an entirely different animal than your typical Teras Kasi, and as such, they are not valid targets for the conversation. In a nutshell, re-read my original post and pay attention to my comments stating that if you're facing a stacked pvp template and you're not using one yourself, all other things being equal, you're toast if you fight, regardless of what you do.
This is very true, unless of course the one with the stacked template is a total moron and has no idea how to PvP or how to utilize their template.
And for your summary....I have no problem with stacking, and I'm sorry you thought I did. Stacking is simply a means of developing a character into a PvP template, and is perfectly legitimate. Nowhere will you find me decrying the practice or whining about it - it's a tool, and if you want to win in PvP, it's a tool you will use. Besides, it would be fairly hypocritical of me to condemn the tactic, now wouldn't it, seeing as I'm a TKM/Fencer, myself?
Sorry, my bad. I just hear so much about stacker this, stacker that, blah blah, I guess I have come to expect it. As a dedicated PvP I get tells all the time about how I am nothing without the extra defenses. The funny thing is my Melee D is 120 and my Ranged D is 0nly 109. Against any master these are pretty useless, its only vs the non masters that these really ocme into play. It's the foods I take that give me the real edge, and some people are so ignorant of the game, they don't realize they can go out and get the same foods I do.
Again, sorry for misinterpreting the post. I wasn't trying to pick it apart, though I guess it seemed that way.
Taliesyn42
Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:39 am
#50
re: Unarmed Lunge 1 Actually, I've used it on stationary targets and never actually attacked with UL1 outside of 15m. If I'm chasing something, due to lag, the effective range drops to a displayed 11m or so, but I wasn't counting that. Are you sure you're not thinking of one of the other lunges? I don't use them (since I can't match the +200-odd unarmed accuracy), so I've not tested to see if they get better range due to weapon use. I know I've seen too many people who've tested TK stuff say lunge1 has 15m range to think it's wholly a problem at my end.
Asquiol
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:06 pm
#51
Ya I'mpositive, I have tested this numerous times and all lunges for all melee professions are 20m. So is Warcry and Intimidate. On stationary targets its always 20m, on moving targets it ranges between 11m and 15m, but that is due to server and client latency, which is the reason they upped the range from 10m to 20m.
But now you have me worried that Pub 7 nerfed the lunge range down to 15m. I will test this later tonight when I get home and let you know what I find.
Taliesyn42
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:23 pm
#52
Well, I've hardly played at all since Publish 7 - my testing was all done before it. I can't figure out why you were able to attack with UL1 at 20m and I wasn't, when both of us were standing still and attacking immobile targets.
Regardless, it's a moot point now, and I'll re-test next time I'm able to log in. (I just moved, and don't have internet access at home.)