Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Fencer makes tk look like a novice brawler
First some facts. Calculations have been posted in the Swordsman's forum in the link I provided above...
Stun Baton : 89 - 133, 2.6with a 25% damage slice corresponds to a damage range of 111 - 166, 2.6. At mitigation 3, this would correspond to a damage range of 111 - 133. Since all Master Fencers hit speed cap with any weapon rated 4.0 and below, we can safely assume that this weapon will be wielded at 60 strokes per minute. Using your basic damage formula, or the nice calculators found at http://www.subterrane.com/swgcalcs.shtml, with 1HHit3, this would correspond to a dps of 122 (average weapon dps) x 1.86 (successful hit multiplier)x 1.5 (damage output bonus)x Specials Damage Multiplier = 122 x 1.86 x 1.5 x 5 or1701.9 points of damage per sec. Not truly fantastic, but not low either.
Factor in the AR0 of the weapon vs AR1 of Composite, this results in a reductionin damage of 50% (ref. Advanced Guide, Armour Fundamentals).
...bringing our normal, average damage sliced stun baton to a dps of850.95 points of damage per sec.
...now, factoring in 35% stun layers protection which is becoming common, this gives us a figure of 553.12 points of damage per sec. Still let's face it. Barely 10% of all the composite on Eclipse is stun layered.
*Note : All data, multipliers, etc. referenced from the Fencer's FAQ on the Fencers' Forum.
So the original poster could very likely have been getting hit for 400+ damage per hit with a basic, everyday, medium sliced stun baton. Since all Master Fencers cap on speed for any weapon below 4.0, and on the assumption that the Fencer did not miss, he would be dead in about 6 seconds.
Still, to be fair, unless the Fencer was garbed in 90% kinetic resist armour, a VK still does more damage. With 85% kinetic composite, a VK would be roughly on par.
The difference then would be the Fencer's defences. Still, the TKM would have to miss roughly 32% more times than the Fencer in order to lose. This too is quite likely considering the vast difference in"def vs"values, counterattack andCOBof theFencer vs TKM. However, there is currently no mathematical basis to calculate this unless all these relationships were completely linear, which is an assumption we cannot make with the data currently available.
Since both professions are so closely matched, one can only come to the conclusion that whoever got off the first successful state or posture change, would win. In this respect, the Fencer is clearly at advantage, considering the very low "def vs" values of the pure TKM.
In view of the above numbers, accusing the original poster of incompetence is, I feel, grossly unfair since a ping difference could decide the outcome of this duel.
Message Edited by Defconn on 04-23-2004 08:35 PM
The calculations above apply to PvP. No mention is made of PvE. The application of mitigation to the calculations already strongly imply that the opponent is not a Piket.
And before you accuse someone of not knowing what they are talking about, I would suggest you temper your argument with the mathematics and numbers provided by SOE and posted on the Fencer boards as the officialFAQ.
Utess wrote:I did a bit of math too, I may be wrong, but will all the defenses, resistances, etc, I think you'd need around an 800+ max damage stun baton to do 400 damage to a TKM with 38% stun resistance composite in PvP. Is that even possible with slices and powerups not using exploits?
And yeppers, they can't dodge intimidate, it either sticks or doesn't. So intimidate first, which lowers their damage to you and their defenses, then stun to lower their defenses even more, then go from there.
Don't forget that with ar1 composite armor with stun layers, the ap0 stun baton loses 50% of its damage due to the difference in ap0 and ar1.
Defconn wrote:First some facts. Calculations have been posted in the Swordsman's forum in the link I provided above...
Stun Baton : 89 - 133, 2.6 with a 25% damage slice corresponds to a damage range of 111 - 166, 2.6. At mitigation 3, this would correspond to a damage range of 111 - 133. Since all Master Fencers hit speed cap with any weapon rated 4.0 and below, we can safely assume that this weapon will be wielded at 60 strokes per minute. Using your basic damage formula, or the nice calculators found at http://www.subterrane.com/swgcalcs.shtml, with 1HHit3, this would correspond to a dps of 122 (average weapon dps) x 1.86 (successful hit multiplier) x 1.5 (damage output bonus) x Specials Damage Multiplier = 122 x 1.86 x 1.5 x 5 or 1701.9 points of damage per sec. Not truly fantastic, but not low either.
Factor in the AR0 of the weapon vs AR1 of Composite, this results in a reduction in damage of 50% (ref. Advanced Guide, Armour Fundamentals).
...bringing our normal, average damage sliced stun baton to a dps of 850.95 points of damage per sec.
...now, factoring in 35% stun layers protection which is becoming common, this gives us a figure of 553.12 points of damage per sec. Still let's face it. Barely 10% of all the composite on Eclipse is stun layered.
*Note : All data, multipliers, etc. referenced from the Fencer's FAQ on the Fencers' Forum.
So the original poster could very likely have been getting hit for 400+ damage per hit with a basic, everyday, medium sliced stun baton. Since all Master Fencers cap on speed for any weapon below 4.0, and on the assumption that the Fencer did not miss, he would be dead in about 6 seconds.
Still, to be fair, unless the Fencer was garbed in 90% kinetic resist armour, a VK still does more damage. With 85% kinetic composite, a VK would be roughly on par.
The difference then would be the Fencer's defences. Still, the TKM would have to miss roughly 32% more times than the Fencer in order to lose. This too is quite likely considering the vast difference in "def vs" values, counterattack and COB of the Fencer vs TKM. However, there is currently no mathematical basis to calculate this unless all these relationships were completely linear, which is an assumption we cannot make with the data currently available.
Since both professions are so closely matched, one can only come to the conclusion that whoever got off the first successful state or posture change, would win. In this respect, the Fencer is clearly at advantage, considering the very low "def vs" values of the pure TKM.
In view of the above numbers, accusing the original poster of incompetence is, I feel, grossly unfair since a ping difference could decide the outcome of this duel.
Message Edited by Defconn on 04-23-2004 08:35 PM
You left out the 75% pvp reduction, so the damage is really around 150 per second.
Kaynab wrote:
You left out the 75% pvp reduction, so the damage is really around 150 per second.
Hmmm....true, I did forget that. Let me recalculate that and see what level of stun baton would be needed to inflict that kind of damage. Then we'll see if that baton was acklay or double sliced.
But one more comment...I find fencers coming here to flame a TKA seeking solace from other TKA's rather sad. It is something I never do. I am only active also in the Swordsman's forum since I am also an MHS. If TKA's are doing this on your boards whenever a Fencer complains, let me say here that I completely disagree with it. As I completely disagreed with an earlier post on the TK forums asking us to comment on a Fencer's ideas for a new Fencer weapon. If you'll refer to my post on that issue...I said it was your right to ask for anything you felt you needed on YOUR forums for the advancement of your profession.
Message Edited by Defconn on 04-24-2004 03:04 PM