Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Some proposals for TKA
The only time I've had ANY success as a TKA in PvP the last couple nights is when we severely outnumber the enemy, and the other guy doesn't have a chance to focus on me before I can in close, and what's the fun in that? A TKM is supposed to be the most feared unarmed fighter, lethal to ranged combatants. Instead we're a joke. While I've managed to continue to be successful in PvE, I'm next to useless in the GCW; I'm forced to pull out a pistol, which really sucks.
It almost seems like the DEVs are trying to herd everyone out of unarmed and over to ranged weapons. Everytime another class screams NERF!, we get hit with a penalty. When we scream STOP NERFING US! we get hit with even bigger penalties.
To hell with it. I'm still going to become a TKM. At least earning the title will be quite impressive, even if being a TKM isn't really all that great at the moment. I'm not switching to Pistoleer no matter how many times someone knocks me on my ass/dizzies me/blinds me with one shot before I can even see where the heck the other guy is.
an elite class would fix a lot..but most of us are fed up NOW...i cant hang with my current groups who kill everthing from a distance before i get a chance to reach it...or if i rush in first i usualy get owned and the group usually finish it off for max exp......
i picked the teras kasi realizing it would be a difficult uphill battle in which the rewards would be worth every minute of it.....but into minute 8640....(2 months)....i think.....and not all fun ..mostly fustrating....but i lov ethe charachter and i love the game so i will proceed......
but please fix it......
NO!!
I refuse to think that we'd have to have an EE class to fix problems that other E professions dont have! Thats like saying "Okay, we'll make your EE profession just as good as all the other E professions so you'll have more to complain about later."
And as for the HAM costs, I've mastered medic and cranked my mind and focus way up there. I'm prolly the weakest (health-wise) TK that you'll ever see, buy I've got enough mind to sustain myself with heals in a fight.
Either way, I can deal with TK at present. I can handle my inability to use KD effectively, and I've skewed my character so far from the norms that I really can function as a tank now. So any change at this point will probably put me back to the drawing board (how do I handle this weeks' nerf to my class).
Oh, and currently, for PvP - you can kill things, just be tricky =)
1) enter PvP with no title (if they know you are TK, they know to never stop running).
2) use a gun at first, then switch to vks (I prefer spraystick at first, harder for them to tell you swapped to VK later)
3)so run in guns blazing, then as soon as you get close remove the gun and spam KD 3 times. Then put on the VKs and spam whatever /unarmedhit# you have, and they generally fall in 5 seconds or less.
4) Burstrun out before their friends help.
then just repeat.. It aint easy, or time efficient, but I hardly ever get killedin PvP unless I have 3 or more guys attack me from the get go.
So yeah, TK has problems.. I can deal with it, but still I would prefer to see the more drastic problems (VK KD costs expecially) to be resolved, or to see every other KD cost for every other class be equalized. Because If you havent noticed, KD effects stack. The more KDs they use, the longer you go with the inability to attack yout aggressor. So when A pistoleer can spam KD on me 5 times without touching his HAM, I feel like finding whoever nerfed us and breaking a few ribs. Personally, If you take KD out of the game, and just give me something like /unarmedKick1 and /unarmedKick2, I'm a happy guy.. KD is cool, but will always be the most abused move in the game. (but if you remove it, I'll quit PvP, because you still have your "anyone with a gun that can hit attack and numlock will own a brawler" problem).
I like the fact that our only real defense agains gunmen is the thing they nerfed the most. And they call it balance. Here's my advice for future games (to the combat system designers of the game):
DON'T MAKE A GAME WITH PVP IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. You obviously dont know what you are doing. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many abolutely cheap ways of killing people.
So, those are my thoughts.
--Dominion
"OK--don't measure against PvP. If you measure against other unabalanced professions, you're going to be lacking an objective baseline."
I understand the reasoning behind having the list of NPC and monsters against whichTKAs should be evenly matched. But PvE is still only one side of the coin, and the less important one at that. I pay to play games with thousands of players for the fun of competing against other players. If I wanted to match wits against a computer, I'd play chess (and get a lot more out of it).
PvP is my primary concern, so of course I am going to measure acombat professionbased on its competence in PvP. It may not be asaccurate, but if your objective baseline has no bearing on the real issue, what good is it? I don't care how many gnorts or how powerful a Tuskan a master of a given profession can defeat -- ifhe doesn't stand a chance against otheractualplayers at similar experience-levels,he needs improvements.
Sure, maybe things will even out over time as the other classes are nerfed down to our level, but with the way things are now, I won't be around long enough to see that day. Why not provide TK artists thesimpleenhancementsneeded to make us somewhat less of a joke. Then you can just make even nerfs to all professions across the board until everyone is down to the appropriate levels. I guarantee it'll make the ride a lot smoother for everyone.
>Balancing" thread in SWG Discussion, everyone feels they are underpowered because they are comparing >themselves to pistoleers. But they're missing the point that pistoleers are way OVERpowered, and so is >most everyone else. If we balance everyone off of pistoleer, the
OK, Holo.. as a long time PnP Dungeon Master I totally understand. So please, go nerf the living hell out of pistoleers, take away their knockdown. It's ridiculous and insane that they have a better melee offense than TKA. And hit Bounty Hunters, too please. ( I'd put a smiley here, but then you'd think I wasn't being serious. I AM.)
What it boils down to is that we TKA's want to stop feeling inferior in OUR OWN REALM OF EXPERTISE (i.e. close quarters) to other classes. Pistoleers and Bounty Hunters in general dominate and ruin this game.
Just look at how many (read: how few) carbineers and riflemen are out there. Esp. at high levels.
And might I suggest reducing the power of Stormtroopers (and perhaps whatever the Reb equivalent is).. I hate the idea that a single Stormie is supposed to be an even con for my TKA master. I mean, these guy died by the dozens and had crappy aim in the movies. Seems a minor point.. but it does mess with the immersion for me.
-destiny rider
TKA Master Starsider
just my slight opinion...
but the vibro-knuckle cerification is backwards.
there's tons of brawlers out there who will never get to TK, never want TK. they'd use brass knuckles.
at the TKA level, we've worked and trained hard. we've learned which part of the hand to hit with, how to cross or bend our fingers for maximum effect.
the thought that a TKA would do more and FASTER damage with a pair if VK is downright absurd and foolish.
don't worry about the VK ham costs, leave them as is to make it hard and expensive to use them. but make it worth a TK's time to truly fight UNARMED as we're supposed to. up unarmed delay (which only makes too much sense i guess) and increase unarmed damage for TK's. *boggle* why this seems so clear to me and others.
you'd not see anyone complain about a 250 KD ham cost if our unarmed fighting styles were truly unarmed and worthwhile. i dont' see why i NEED to use VK's at all, to be honest.
I agree with the mind costs...
A martial artist reacts on instinct through years of training, in a fight a TKA shouldn't think.
Oh yeah and my opinion on VKs...
They should have a high cost when using combat moves designed for most normal types of enemies... Vibro knuckles should be for when a TKA has to go up against something large and heavily built. They should be for demolition, not for fighting. They should be bulky and clumsy when going against another player, but should work well against structures and certain huge metalic pets. But I admit I'm biased.
*bump* Please read Holocron, I didn't spend 1 hour on this post so you could ignore it...
Legend:
Cyan - Holocron
Yellow - Question
White - My Thoughts
Holocron,
Well, i'm a bit more calm now, I think I can make an intelligent post now that you'll consider answering. I'm glad you are all reducing HAM costs for our moves, that's a start.. we'll have to test them and see if they are enough to combo and help us enough to maybe consider forgetting about knockdown. I will agree with you about knockdown being way too powerful in the sense that enemies can't hit us, but I think that everyone has a good point.. a timer would be the best answer. Knockdown lasts roughly for about 10 seconds, to the effect where they cannot attack.. so making the timer to 10, wouldn't be fair yet, because then you can still make the enemy not attack you. So I believe that a 20 second timer would be fair, 30 would be a bit too long. So basically if you had the original costs of knockdown and a timer of 20, you'd have a balanced skill. Of course I hope this goes for all classes.
Quotes and Questions ~
OFFICIAL Star Wars Strategy Guide, Page 267 wrote:
Facing an opponent armed with ranged weapons, high-level abilities enable his or her to evade blaster fire and close in quickly, bringing his or her enemy swiftly to the ground.
Teras Kasi are lethal, nearly impossible to knock down or unbalance.
Thoughts, Koster?
- That this paragraph is strategy guide hyperbole. Read, literally it says "TKAs can't be killed." Uhh... I doubt that you or we want that.
You're right, we don't want that. However, you need to talk with these people that made the "Official" Strategy guide. They sound like they are stretching the truth by far. In fact, we know they are.
- We're not trying to be stubborn or arrogant. We're trying to offer these up for commentary. The fact that you see this proposal as stubborn or arrogant impliesthat one, and probably both, of the following are true:
Thank you for offering up some things for commentary, but understand we are all very angry at the moment. It would help if next time you say something along the lines of - "We are working on all the other issues that have been asked, but we have a few issues at the moment that we'd like to ask all of you". Just a thought so that we don't get angry next time, let's help each other here with less stress, no? 
- we're wrong about the actual power of Teras Kasi Artists
- you're assuming a baseline of ability for TKAs that is way too high to be balanced with the rest of the game
- I am pretty sure that both will turn out to be true.
Yes, they're both true for most people. I'm actually proposing though something that shouldn't be out of line.. I think that if the team is having trouble figuring out how to balance things, you have to establish a few rules first. First of all, are you trying to make this a fun game? or as close to real lifeas possible? (consider this second option just there for flare, we are playing in a world of "jawas" and "banthas" and the mystical "force"). So I would consider establishing the fact that this is a game. Some facts would help.. like..
- No one is going to die in one blaster fire, unless it's fired from an AT-ST or such.
- Graphical errors are gonna happen, bugs are gonna happen.
- This is a realistic fantasy world, but it's a game none the less, balancing needs to happen, not one class should have an advantage over the other. People use swords. In reality no one would really choose to use a sword, they'd use a light saber if they could. Again, it's a game.. make this a fun game, forget about realistic issues and just make it fun. Trust us.
- People are gonna want to Roleplay for fun, at the moment .. people can't roleplay because they are too busy worrying about their nerfs and spending more time in the forums than the actual game.. that's bad.
Once you have established a simple few facts and rules, then you need to put things in order. Which Melee class is the strongest? .. in order, i'd say Pikemen, swordmen, fencers, teras kasi. The same order goes for speed.. Teras Kasi being the fastest. Now that you know that one class shouldn't out do each other, then go into Ranged classes and ask yourself which weapon should be the strongest? Rifles in my opinion, because they are the slowest.. so in the same way .. from strongest to weakest and slowest to fastest - Rifleman/Carbineer/Pistoleer. Now after all this you can make an educated guess of what melee class is equal to what ranged class when it comes to power and speed, as well as range. In most MMORPG's, the advantage of being ranged.. is just that - You are ranged, can use various ammo for different effects, and have excellent accuracy. But they can't run while attacking. Guns use less skill to use than a bow and arrow, however.. they shouldn't be allowed to run as fast, do you agree?
- If I said "is" then I am sure you would correct me saying that it is ineffective. So I said "supposed to be." Chalk it up to my bein gunshy at this point.
- My impression is that it works fine. Yes, the opponent can get back up, but in the meantime you've had a chance to do stuff to them, as with knockdown....
"as with knockdown....", makes it sound like you really really dislike that skill.. if I may ask, what was the initial idea behind this skill? who thoughtof it?.. and the best way to fix it is to put the timer on it. Seriously 
- Look, all we're trying to do here is make you happy and make sure you have fun in the game. At the same time, if we say "we will give you anything you ask for," you will ask to be invulnerable (admit it. ). If we're proceeding from different assumptions, we're going to end up disagreeing. Hence my post in SWG discussion sowe can get back to first principles.
If you give anything we ask for, the more experienced of us will say no to invulnerability. Why not give us neverwinter nights if you're gonna do that?.. look seriously, the bigger population and mostly the majority of the forum does not want invulnerability or anything comparable. Only if we were jedis.. but forget jedis for now. On topic, I think that if you keep doing what you are doing now, you will get this game back up to what it was on release, or more. Just, trust us. Would be great if you ask us before you are about to apply a nerf.. or you will catch everyone off guard.
- I'll tell you that ourtake as far as TKAs go is that you have some balance issues, but overall you are overpowered, not under. Can you explain to me why that is incorrect? What are you measuring against, exactly. (Pistoleers in PvP? PvE when compared against a comparably advanced carbineer or pikeman? What, exactly, are you using as your baseline?)
Seriously, please trust us on this.. we are SO not overpowered at the moment.. TKA aren't the powerhouses. We're not supposed to be. The strongest of melee at the moment are swordmen, just as they are supposed to be. The most damage we deal to a single enemy is close to 300 every hit, varying of course with different Vibro Knucklers. With berserk we get up to 500. I hate to drag ranged characters into this, but they do more damage than us, efficiently at a faster rate, and while aiming at our un-healable mind pool.. besides the fact that it's unfair to be on the receiveing end of 800 mind damage, I think that we are seriously not overpowered. I have tested this as well, I told a newly created character to duel me. All I asked him was to run in a straight line, away from me - sure enough slowly in about 1000 meters, he did me in. I didn't hit him once, didn't have a chance. Holo.. i'm a Teras Kasi Master. Killed by a Novice Marksman (0/0/0/0). Please, if you're going to answer one question on my post.. answer me that. Why are we subject to die to a newly created character?
I wanna have fun and leave you alone in this forum, so you can do your other work... we all wanna leave the forums alone. Please help us out here, kay? we all need less headaches.. thanks for you time then. Hope to see a response soon in the morning.
man...that whole post almost made me cry......we plead and beg...but they dont care about TK......i cant believe you were killed by a novice and your a master........i have only pvp 3 times...and i have never won...i actually thought i was to weak......but now im thinking of it.....they were on my level....some dude in a med center using guns owned me.....but i though ill get stronger and get revenge....now i see that it wasnt my fault at all.........
i wont even say that i will stop playing this game..because this game is great...so i guess knowing that i will keep paying ..you guys dont have to listen to our issues..........i am going to play today and pvp till my pc bleeds.......GRRRRRRRR someone will lose to me today!!!!!!!
Instead of health,action and mind hit make it Break. Health Break would do little health pool damage and disarm the enemy, PvP would be 10 seconds, PvE should be 25 seconds. Bring your gun and knife to this fight. If its on the ground over 20m away from you and any martial artist is near you, your as good as dead.
Action Break would do little action pool damage and slow enemys run rate by 35% for 15 seconds (PvP), around 30-40 seconds PvE.
Mind Break(instead or paralize) Little mind pool damage, but slow enemys run and attack speed by 60-75%. Again 15-20 seconds PvP and 40 seconds PvE. In RL a martial artist can strike you in the shoulder and paralize your arm for a while. We cant do that in game for obvisous reasons but disarm should be at hte very least a basic skill for ANY martial artist.
This would solve our controlling enemy problem. We still need some defence boosts and/or speed boost for getting to the enemy and most likely a 50-60% damage boost. Why 50-60%? because they need to get rid of Vibro knucklers. We are UNARMED. If they get rid of VK's they will need to increase our speed to hit the min of 1 second. Why? because most other weapons can do it and remember? we have 2 hands not just 1. Speed and Accuracy need to be our greatest advantage. I know i can hit something with my fist easier than i can hit it with an ax,pistol,rifle ect...
Some may think these are riduclus requests, but i mean look at us now? near useless and NO payoff whatsoever. I also herd SOE likes to make money and if Teras kasi(along with a couple other classes) stays this way they will lose alot more.
i say give us more defense against kd........+20?.....how about +60.......... tk master and fall from a bounty hunters undershot...........either give tk more defense against kd or just take kd out of the game alltogether.........for every profession...........