Teras Kasi Archive

I think even more then a spin attack Mankind i do believe a stun attack would help TKM out greatly, i would opt to get a low level spin attack, and an advanced stun attack in place of Unarmed Combo move, honest to god wed be better off, hehe come on Mankind00 help us out man lol, this is what we need

Wookie TKM, MS, Doc 3xxx (cause of fs)
using Innate Armor

sometimes when in a really good group we would basically spam area's on the lair of bols and I would use area taunt to keep the agro. What would end up happening is the docs were getting agroed because of the healing con. Now just yesterday I respeced the doc in my template from pike def IV. I want to try this method again with also me healing I think I'll be much for effective.

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FernGully wrote:
I could see Area Taunt in Pikeman. But swordsman definitely has me scratchin my head.

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Yeah exactly. Pike I could see -- "crowd" control and all that... I'd still think TKA should have it too but at least I could see it... But Sword??? That just makes no sense to me.

C

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Chessack wrote:
In summary, we're working OK as a tank class, with the exception of aggro holding. The problem, of course, is that half the job of a tank is to hold aggro (the other half being withstanding the aggro once it comes at you).

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Bingo. Great summary. *gives Chessack a cookie*

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After5CST wrote:

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Chessack wrote:
In summary, we're working OK as a tank class, with the exception of aggro holding. The problem, of course, is that half the job of a tank is to hold aggro (the other half being withstanding the aggro once it comes at you).

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Bingo. Great summary. *gives Chessack a cookie*

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Yuppers. I think its important to emphasize the multi-target aspect of the aggro thing, too. It really feels to me like the area taunt belongs in TKA. Buff up the effect of taunt all around, and put area taunt in TKA, and we're in good shape.

Any time you ask for something to be "upgraded" like we're obviously asking for taunt to be, you have to sorta look at things from a dev perspective and ask "Hmm, would this be unbalancing?". With Taunt, I don't see how this could possibly be the case.

I personally am quite confused as to why they would stick area taunt in the non-tank melee class' skill tree, and give a crappy watered-down taunt to the primary tank. I mean... if swordsman wanted (for some reason, which I am not sure why they would given they are not "tanks") to pull aggro, they can do a LOT more damage than a TKA can, so why do THEY get the better aggro-enhancer?

That has never made any sense to me. In City of Heroes, there are 2 melee profs -- tanker, who is, well, a tanker, and scrapper, who has some defense but, like swordsman, is offensive primarily, and the defense is secondary. The scrappers (offense over defense) have single target taunts, while the tankers (defense over offense) have AOE taunts. That makes sense... the way SWG has it, doesn't.

C

Iuse foods for mind/action/health regen

I don't have any trouble holding aggro. If I am hunting with a heavy damage healer and my taunt timer is still recharging I toss heals which usually triggers the hate AI and gets the aggro back to me. In groups I seem to be able to hold 3 to 4 lvl 80 - 82creatures this way while taking very little dmg to myself. In long fights I would need to rest to let mind regen if I am having to do a lot of healing.

Species: Human male

Template: TKM/Mpike/Mbrawler/2044 swordsman

Armor Type: Test run #1 TIA, Test run #2 7.1k RIS

I ran results off of CL 82 bols and Necrosis just to see "what would happen".

I also used +25 melee def/ranged def shirt, gloves, and boots.

I found a group at the MO and decided to try a bunch of high level bols. With the bols i could spin attack the lair with every MOB on me, I had COB running using area sweep from pikes coupled with spin attack I was able to hold aggro with carbineers and 1 riflemen shooting away. I had a cm to heal me (only 1000 cm at the time) and I was able to tank all of the bols. Using the RIS I found it was ALOT! easier to tank seemingly i had a rather substantial damage reduction than without armor.

For Necrosis i had a Mdoc on standby just incase something went wrong and to heal me when needed.The way this one worked, with TIA I was taking around 500 damage with COB, sword flurry, and synth. I was able to hold hate using a 1.1k VL and taunt when needed. WE did kill him and we went down once more and this time I used the RIS, with RIS, COB, sword flurry, and synth. I was taking about 425-450 (not sure on hard numbers) and with the Mdoc heals I was able to tank him long enough to finish him off.

Keep this stuff coming please guys. Great info so far.

Human

Mcm/mtka/4xxx commando --Armor innate

Mdoc/mtka/xxx4 swords --Armor innate

mdoc/mtka/xxx4 fencer --Armor innate

mdoc/msword/x4xx tka --4800 Battle Armor

Innate around is nice, but not that nice. My battle armor is crap, but I only notice a little difference in tanking. I have better armor that is equal to innate, but I am waiting to slice it.

My problem with tka is damage out put or lack of. In many ways tka is like a melee version of BH, yet bh does great damage. I have yet to understand the harm in letting tka do more damage.

We have one good weapon, which is loot and not all that easy to get either. Its not a repeatable quest and weapons do decay. We have no craftable weapons past 40. Bare hands are a joke the damage is to low and the sac is to high. We also can't slice them or even improve them since unarmed damage mods don't seem to do anything.

Tka is bland.Its not fun pressing 1 or 2 speicals and there is not much tactics to it. The brother of tka is pike, which is everything tka isn't. You go warcry and stun and intimiate to help tank. You got a couple of damage specials single and area and some kd.

Dizzy doesn't seem to effect anything.

To hold argo you got to do damage or heal, taunts grab it for a moment then its gone. In most games tank attacks havebuild in agro, so even though the attacks might not be doing huge damage its holding the mobs attention.

When you come down to it the only thing you need out of tka is cob.Its a must have if you are going to tank or solo at all.

Game lag makes it hard to tell where a mob is, which is important to a melee type.

Also the Devs will never be able to balance the melee classes to each other as long as you can 3 elite.

Message Edited by SettingSun on 07-22-2005 08:22 PM

Bothan

TKM / MSwords / Doc 4-0-0-0

TIA

Primarily I krayt hunt with a single partner (Jedi Human, MDef / MSabers / Healer 3-0-0-0 / Enhancer 0-0-0-2, pre-CU saber, 4 excellent pearls, DPS 715ish). I can hold agro alternating Taunt and Area Taunt (from Swords). Using CoB, Sword Flurry, and some Def foods I can tank reasonably. With Doc heals, stimpacks, and Improved Force Infusion from my partner, I can effectively tank a Krayt (up to Giant level) indefinately.

I use a lot of skills from non-TK skillsets, but the primary survivability comes from Imp CoB. If I let that drop, I die, end of story.

I was thinking about this tonight. I was playing with a CM/BH friend of mine. The CM kept having to run and heal himself and everything because I couldn't really keep aggro. At one point while I was desperately trying to pull a mob off of him, this is what was happening.

The CM/BH was standing about 50 m away from the stormtrooper, shooting it with a gun.

I was standing right IN HIS FACE, raking him with my Katarn Knucklers.

Now, you're a player. You are in this situation in PVP - one ranged guy shooting you from a distance, one melee guy in your face. You, as it happens, like stormtroopers, are a RANGED combatant. Who poses the greater threat at the moment?

Seems to me, unless you have melee skills (which Stormtroopers generally don't), you'd be pretty worried about that melee guy punching you in the face. Melee enemies have KDs, they have armor break, they have a lot of nasty things they can do if you let them get ON you. In fact the FIRST rule of thumb for me when I was a ranged player was to take out the melee'er before the ranged guy... damage dealing aside, ranged vs. ranged I can deal with -- that's what a ranged class is designed for. But melee against me as a ranged player, that's trouble.

So why isn't the AI this smart? Animals, I might agree, ought to just attack whatever is upsetting them, but even there... shouldn't the guy in your face, present you with a serious threat (damage totals aside)? But at least animals, are stupid. Stormtroopers though, shouldn't be that stupid. In fact we know they are highly trained ("And look at these blast points. They're too accurate for sandpeople. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are this precise.")

It kind of reminds me of NWN... In that game, they set the AI up so, if an enemy has both a ranged and a melee weapon, and you get within melee range, even if he is primarily a shooter, he'll put the bow or whatever away, pull out the sword, and defend himself. In real life soldiers do this -- it's why they have bayonets on their rifles. They preferentially shoot, but if an enemy gets close enough, they switch to the bayonet... So why don't stormtroopers do something similar, and whip out a vibroknuckler or something to defend themselves when I get close.

I dunno, it just seemed to me, if I am standing up in a guy's face, KDing him and cutting into his armor and whatnot, he might kind of notice it instead of standing there with his back to me and shooting at a guy 50 m away...


C