Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Public CU Information Links & Discussion. Last updated: 30/3
Ryutek
Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:39 am
#27
The single Health bar is not a huge problem. It is a tried and true method of making certain combat stays simple, and I welcome that change. Try not to focus on the HAM until it is seen is the only advice I can give there, as I think it will still be fine and feel "Star Warsy" provided everything else is implemented correctly.
What I am thoroughly against is this implementation of prerequisite changes, which makes absolutely no sense in any way. It should either be a fifth generic melee line or a dynamic prereq that you choose, not one that is chosen for you.
What I am thoroughly against is this implementation of prerequisite changes, which makes absolutely no sense in any way. It should either be a fifth generic melee line or a dynamic prereq that you choose, not one that is chosen for you.
Mankind00
Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:09 am
#28
Anruth, you seem to miss my point. What I said was to try & not give reasons for the way you think things should change based on anything you currently know. You're reason for liking the sound of polearms was
"plus it has much more use than swords! I understand the dots aren't going to be as great but the swords are worthless unless you are a certain skill in swordsman!"
Which is based on the current live game, it's not based on what is coming, hence why I ask to not try & base things off the current system.
Back on to the prereq.
Personally I think dynamic prereq is the way to go, but it needs to be done right so that it matches the way marksman works.
1 Elite Melee Novice - 2 Brawler lines
2 Elite Melee Novice - 3 Brawler lines
3+ Elite Melee Novice - 4 Brawler lines
2 Elite Melee Novice - 3 Brawler lines
3+ Elite Melee Novice - 4 Brawler lines
Otherwise if you want to take two or more Elites you already have the prereq lines from the others & it doesn't quite line up.
I quite like the fith generic melee support line but I do worry how that will effect people who want Master Brawler, they would need all 5 lines which is a fair chunk of skill points.
Personally I wouldn't mind set prereqs as long as it was more equal then it currently is, at the moment too many professions need Unarmed & not enough need polearms. But some changes I can't go in to here would need to happen with this.
LordBranamar
Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:24 am
#29
Taking into consideration what we all asked for at one time or another, I feel like this combat revamp might touch at least ONE point that people feel so strongly over. When you let the initial emotion pass from knowing that eventually you are going to have to adapt and survive you'll see that ManKind, Ryu, and others that are advocates of some of the changes are right.
You are looking at one of the most important nerfs in this game making a strong showing. Combat medics have had it coming for almost a year now. All melee and ranged professions rejoice when thinking about the /target aspect of the game. Unless you were fighting a respectable person you had to do everything in your power to keep that little blue bar from ticking away. Well I have a good feeling that those days are coming to a close. Though commando will probably take that role over once again, its a damn sight better than any CM.
The HAM changes are decent if you consider that if you look at where buffs are now, in the end you aren't losing much of anything. Especially since TKM gets powerboost (unless it gets nerfed). That will give you another 500 points to your health. Now in PvP the removal of the other ham bars takes away a bit of the strategy I liked to employ when dealing with people that didn't wear pants or arms/bracers, but thats something I'll have to live with.
This CU really does excite some of the people who are looking for a new challenge in SWG. Too much of the original content has become monotonous. Its all a re-occuring theme that is Star Wars yes, but when a good portion of the people do is camp spawns for "lewt" to sell on the trade forums, you get this mess we have today.
I'd like to take just a moment to wish everyone goodluck in the coming months, though the CU is not set in stone yet, I'm sure the face of SWG is going to change for good once it is.-Branamar Boh TK4Life
You are looking at one of the most important nerfs in this game making a strong showing. Combat medics have had it coming for almost a year now. All melee and ranged professions rejoice when thinking about the /target aspect of the game. Unless you were fighting a respectable person you had to do everything in your power to keep that little blue bar from ticking away. Well I have a good feeling that those days are coming to a close. Though commando will probably take that role over once again, its a damn sight better than any CM.
The HAM changes are decent if you consider that if you look at where buffs are now, in the end you aren't losing much of anything. Especially since TKM gets powerboost (unless it gets nerfed). That will give you another 500 points to your health. Now in PvP the removal of the other ham bars takes away a bit of the strategy I liked to employ when dealing with people that didn't wear pants or arms/bracers, but thats something I'll have to live with.
This CU really does excite some of the people who are looking for a new challenge in SWG. Too much of the original content has become monotonous. Its all a re-occuring theme that is Star Wars yes, but when a good portion of the people do is camp spawns for "lewt" to sell on the trade forums, you get this mess we have today.
I'd like to take just a moment to wish everyone goodluck in the coming months, though the CU is not set in stone yet, I'm sure the face of SWG is going to change for good once it is.-Branamar Boh TK4Life
Mankind00
Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:41 am
#30
RitterAdelskapsAlt wrote:
Just wanted to add a bit more of my opinion:
Combat Medics -- I would like to see combat medics have a better role in combat than a doctor. Doctors live in hospitals, not on the battle field.
As an Ex-doctor I really really disagree with the comment I've bolded I believe both proffesions belong in the fight. The direction that the two proffesions will be going though has not yet been made public so I can't go in to which opinion is thought by the Devs.
Windup/Cooldown -- We already have those. They are called "/aim" and weapon speed. There is no need to add a windup to the windup, or tack on another cooldown for using a special (most have a 2-3x delay modifier already). Also, I dislike the idea of interrupts, especially due to moving. I can shoot a gun while moving. I can aim while moving. It is not as effective, but it does not stop me from doing it.
The actual duraction of these wind ups & cool downs are yet to be announced either publicly or elsewhere, personly this is something I think will add a bit of realism to the game, personly I see the windups as been you taking your aim, charging your blaster for certain shots, or adjusting your grip / stance for the hit. Cooldowns I'm not as sure on, but I think they are needed to stop the repetitiveness of combat.
As for the types of interupts they areputing in, I think it is something that will be best looked in to while testing as opposed to how it sound on paper.
There, now you have two more cents from me.
-Ritter Adelskap / TheBlacKnight15 (Will be posting under TheBlacKnight15 on tuesday when temp. ban lifts.)
By the way I'm trying to reply to alot of the stuff, I'm not trying to argue so don't take it that way, just trying to add another line of thought to it.
RunemonIV
Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:42 am
#31
LordBranamar wrote:
Taking into consideration what we all asked for at one time or another, I feel like this combat revamp might touch at least ONE point that people feel so strongly over. When you let the initial emotion pass from knowing that eventually you are going to have to adapt and survive you'll see that ManKind, Ryu, and others that are advocates of some of the changes are right.
You are looking at one of the most important nerfs in this game making a strong showing. Combat medics have had it coming for almost a year now. All melee and ranged professions rejoice when thinking about the /target aspect of the game. Unless you were fighting a respectable person you had to do everything in your power to keep that little blue bar from ticking away. Well I have a good feeling that those days are coming to a close. Though commando will probably take that role over once again, its a damn sight better than any CM.
The HAM changes are decent if you consider that if you look at where buffs are now, in the end you aren't losing much of anything. Especially since TKM gets powerboost (unless it gets nerfed). That will give you another 500 points to your health. Now in PvP the removal of the other ham bars takes away a bit of the strategy I liked to employ when dealing with people that didn't wear pants or arms/bracers, but thats something I'll have to live with.
This CU really does excite some of the people who are looking for a new challenge in SWG. Too much of the original content has become monotonous. Its all a re-occuring theme that is Star Wars yes, but when a good portion of the people do is camp spawns for "lewt" to sell on the trade forums, you get this mess we have today.
I'd like to take just a moment to wish everyone goodluck in the coming months, though the CU is not set in stone yet, I'm sure the face of SWG is going to change for good once it is.-Branamar Boh TK4Life
I agree, most people are already complaining before they know anything about it really. This game has been on one side of the arc, too damned easy to acrue anything (money, levels, power) and on the otherside its been silly hard (death watch bunker, the villiage, corvette missions). Combat medics have been a thorn in the side since the first mind toxin was thrown at an at-st and killed it. Yeah they gave us fixes for that and created more problems. LOS is going to work for the melee minded person and i suspect pistol users as well. One ham bar represents the tried and true method of gaming and im glad to see its being implemented.
Problem with most gamers is that they always look for the "I win" button. That is how some templates got thought up. The way things will be will encourage you to take other skill sets and discourage mid profession dabbling atleast the way i see it. What that means is that it wouldnt be advantageous for you to take say tk 2-2-2-2 then hop on over to pikeman 2-3-3-2 (ect.) because the better combat stats come from the mastery which is how it should have been since the begining.
but being a tka might include learning to use a blaster in the marksman tree as our max range is 6 meters now. No more 20 meter lunge/kd from brawler mastery
I have heard some things like "What about all we have worked for?" and i chuckle because 1: this is a game and you dont own anything in it and 2: there have been some of us that have worked for what you have several times over WORKING to see the game get better or simply quit because its gone stale time after time.
I for one think this CU will bring back the mystery to this game as everyone attempts to flesh out the new system.. you will see more newer players and that will fill the cities up again.. you will see returning players.. people like me who want to play starwars not buffwars. We have had to wait a long time for this those like lordbranamer and I since week 3 we could see somethings just not adding up. this game has been out nearly 2 years now i think they are on par for what they are doing
just my .2 credit
RunemonIV
Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:46 am
#32
Mankind00 wrote:
RitterAdelskapsAlt wrote:
Just wanted to add a bit more of my opinion:
Combat Medics -- I would like to see combat medics have a better role in combat than a doctor. Doctors live in hospitals, not on the battle field.
As an Ex-doctor I really really disagree with the comment I've bolded I believe both proffesions belong in the fight. The direction that the two proffesions will be going though has not yet been made public so I can't go in to which opinion is thought by the Devs.
Windup/Cooldown -- We already have those. They are called "/aim" and weapon speed. There is no need to add a windup to the windup, or tack on another cooldown for using a special (most have a 2-3x delay modifier already). Also, I dislike the idea of interrupts, especially due to moving. I can shoot a gun while moving. I can aim while moving. It is not as effective, but it does not stop me from doing it.
The actual duraction of these wind ups & cool downs are yet to be announced either publicly or elsewhere, personly this is something I think will add a bit of realism to the game, personly I see the windups as been you taking your aim, charging your blaster for certain shots, or adjusting your grip / stance for the hit. Cooldowns I'm not as sure on, but I think they are needed to stop the repetitiveness of combat.
As for the types of interupts they areputing in, I think it is something that will be best looked in to while testing as opposed to how it sound on paper.
There, now you have two more cents from me.
-Ritter Adelskap / TheBlacKnight15 (Will be posting under TheBlacKnight15 on tuesday when temp. ban lifts.)
By the way I'm trying to reply to alot of the stuff, I'm not trying to argue so don't take it that way, just trying to add another line of thought to it.
another good thing is the 3 button spam combos are coming to a halt almost for got about that
scottid3
Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:59 am
#33
I just think that this combat upgrade is taking SWG slowly the way of......well all the other MMORPG's out there. The introduction of the wind-up and cool-down, maxing out HAM as you level, and no more template structuring, I think its just making it more like everything else out there.Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'll see in a few months.
GraySeven
Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:00 pm
#34
It looks to me that this revamp is going to push everyone into one combat profession. Right now, I am a Rifleman/TK because I need abilities from both to be able to successfully combat some higher level MOBs and so that I am competitive in PvP. These new changes appear to be an effort to move people to focus.
That being said, my big concern comes from Hybrids. If the Advanced combat professions are being modified to prevent template stacking, what is being done to balance out the Hybrids?
Will we see every Pistoleer taking Smuggler or BH? Or Carbineer's taking BH? Will Commando's also take TK? Will my Master Rifle damage be equal to the Master Commando or BH?
If the Advanced combat professions get nerfed hard so that you don't see triple master combat templates, will everyone move to the Hybrids as a compliment to their chosen combat profession?
Will melee fighters still have an advantage over ranged, in that all creatures do melee damage, and melee mitigation belongs to the melee branches, or will damage mitigation be removed alltogether or lumped into one damage mitigation category?
Unfortunately, the information the Dev's gave us just raises more questions for me, questions I hope to hell the Dev's have already asked themselves and fixed...
RunemonIV
Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:31 pm
#35
GraySeven wrote:
It looks to me that this revamp is going to push everyone into one combat profession. Right now, I am a Rifleman/TK because I need abilities from both to be able to successfully combat some higher level MOBs and so that I am competitive in PvP. These new changes appear to be an effort to move people to focus.
That being said, my big concern comes from Hybrids. If the Advanced combat professions are being modified to prevent template stacking, what is being done to balance out the Hybrids?
Will we see every Pistoleer taking Smuggler or BH? Or Carbineer's taking BH? Will Commando's also take TK? Will my Master Rifle damage be equal to the Master Commando or BH?
If the Advanced combat professions get nerfed hard so that you don't see triple master combat templates, will everyone move to the Hybrids as a compliment to their chosen combat profession?
Will melee fighters still have an advantage over ranged, in that all creatures do melee damage, and melee mitigation belongs to the melee branches, or will damage mitigation be removed alltogether or lumped into one damage mitigation category?
Unfortunately, the information the Dev's gave us just raises more questions for me, questions I hope to hell the Dev's have already asked themselves and fixed...
i dont know if youre gonna like this answer but because of how the combat system is melee had an almost 2 year period of godhood.. this was never intended.. my hopes is if you get someone in melee range that you should be able to keep them there
back in the day when Raph Koster was eating doughnuts and drinking 6 billion carb sodas watching the forums he said he never intended for melee to be more powerful than the ranged players simply because this was star wars and guns should have the upper hand
that was the gist not verbatim
but this game falling under different teams over the past 2 years who knows what is what
but even as it may be no one would tell you at this point if they knew i think thats what the NDA is for
GraySeven
Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:47 pm
#36
Those questions were mostly rhetorical, simply because of the NDA. My intent was to bring focus on the fact that the information given to us gave more questions than answers.
Yeah, I remember the Koster days. Star Wars should be ranged-biased. Thefew times we ever saw melee combat in any of the movies involved lightsabers or ewoks or tuskens. I'm not counting Solo's wrestling match with the Scout Trooper though. We never saw swords or pikes in use. For all I know, those big staffs the Emperor's guard had shot energy bolts...
Dark_Jedi88
Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:05 pm
#37
I see absolutely no reason at all for us to have the Two-Handed skill tree. For that matter, I can't see a reason Teras Kasi would need any of the Brawler trees except for Unarmed.
If the DEVs are wanting to change it so that dabblers are no more, make the skill blocks take more skill points. I also agree with the comments on a generic melee line, instead.
Like you said, Mankind00, I have no desire to be forced into a profession that I do not want.
If the DEVs are wanting to change it so that dabblers are no more, make the skill blocks take more skill points. I also agree with the comments on a generic melee line, instead.
Like you said, Mankind00, I have no desire to be forced into a profession that I do not want.
Message Edited by Dark_Jedi88 on 03-22-2005 01:31 PM
PrakD
Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:42 pm
#38
Having a TKM/Master Doc, all I can wonder is what template I will go since..TKM-nerfed....Doc-nerfed?....sh!t
A redhead with an attitude
xtxShifter
Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:11 pm
#39
At first I thought the new prereqs would force people into specific templates. However, I added up the skill point cost in prereqs for each permutation of a dual elite brawler and it turns out that all but one template would require an equal amount of skill points to be spent on prereqs.
TK/Fencer - 42
TK/Swordsman - 42
TK/Pikeman - 42
Fencer/Swordsman - 42
Fencer/Pikeman - 42
Swordsman/Pikeman - 56
TK/Fencer - 42
TK/Swordsman - 42
TK/Pikeman - 42
Fencer/Swordsman - 42
Fencer/Pikeman - 42
Swordsman/Pikeman - 56