Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: A RL Martial Arts Master's Opinion On TKA
I am in law enforcement, and to be fair to the author of this topic, they do teach firearm disarming techniques in training. However, you don't want to get into those kind of scenarios to begin with if it can be avoided.
Having said that, this is a game based on a science fiction movie. There is no basis for reality here, and giving TKAs some PvP survival skills that would help defeat the now undefeatable Run & Gun tactics would be very welcome indeed.
What people tend to forget is, that in a fight, both sides will be scared - the one with the gun too.
>I am sorry, but if I had a gun drawn (lets say a 9mm with a full clip) from 7 ft on a target, that target is dead, period.
You are making the same assumptions like the original poster. And if the RL background of the original poster if not faked, I tend to trust his opinion more than yours ...
The problem is, that 2 m arent much.
1st: If a martial artist is 2m away from a gun user, who hasnt drawn a gun, and is taking the initiative, there is defintelty no chance to draw the gun AND hit. Even if you fast draw, counting in your reaction time, you needapprox. one second AND you will need some room for your move, after 0.5 seconds you wont have this room ...
2nd: if your target is 2m away, its better to aim for the chest. because the head is a really small target zone, and if the target is moving, well, its not easy to reaquire the target in time.
3rd: a 9mm isnt the best man stopper. Even if you hit him, chances are high, that your taget wont be completly out of the fight. And an angry target in close combat can be quite painful
Ghrian, look, the guy used an example of if a gun is already drawn on him. Not the gun was holstered. That was the point I was trying to argue. I agree, if the gun is holstered your chances of survival increase if you attack first. I know a 9mm is not the best man stopper, but it is standard issue and preferred over the 45 caliber which is a man stopper plus the HK's that are used are 9mm also. You can still double tap with a pistol and that is what I was referring too.In the hands of an expert CQB (whether SEAL or Delta) operator, you will be put down with a 9mm. But I think odds are if you ever encountered anyone with a gun it would not be someone with that type of backgroud 
But I agree 100 percent, none of this RL gun/unarmed talk really needs to be compared with this game. I was only arguing the fact that what the original poster claimed to be able to do was far-fetched.
lol You guys have no respect for a bullet - that is sad. I don't care what they teach you in law enforcement, navy seal school or in some shaolin temple in the basement of a parking garage, the ninja is the dead man in the given scenario.
Life is not quake, Life is not SWG nor anything you see on TV and read in comic books.
The topic would have been better if he said ' let's make TK more like thefantastic martial artists we see in movies' as that is more agreeable than a self guide on 'how to get shot in less than a second'.
Kids don't try this at home.
Someone please lock this thread so it can be forgotten.
But also, you have to understand is that there is no RL equivalent of a master TKA. They are not simply martial artists. They have supernatural abilities and this should not only be displayed in their meditative side. They should have uncanny dodging ability and speed. Make them more like NWN monks!
I stopped reading this thread halfway through to post. Might go back in a minute...
I've done enough research (practicing and reading) to know that youviolently reacting to a gun in your face does not mean your death. For example, I dont care what the situation but I know the Grand Master of Ninjitsu (that's right, Ninjitsu, and this guy is VERY old) could stare down the barrel of a gun and drop the gunman to the ground writhing in pain before the gunman knew what happend. He could do many ways, but the way that comes to mind involves one of the ninja kicks (and if you knew anything about ninjitsu, you would know that kicks and punchs arent done that much). He would lower his body posture very quickly removing the gun from even hitting him anymore, and in the same motion plant his big toe right into you're perinium (I know that's spelled wrong, but that's the area of skin between your testacles and your anus that just so happends to be a highly sensitive pressure point. The gunman would drop his gun, and probably not stand up for awhile.
So with that, I agree with Kasamatsu. On the other hand, I do agree with Obyo to an extent. Many martial artists would die if faced with a gun. Only a select few have the ability to disable an assailant while a gun is in their face, but it is doable. So I'm not saying both arguments are wrong, but rather saying both arguments are right. hehe.
And we're also assuming that there is a master unarmed person facing a novice skilled person with a gun.
Ever seen a world quick-draw competition? I've watched one, but I still didnt see it 
There is a reason when there's a bank robbery, police dont show up in robes and black belts. They show up in bullet proof vests and have strategically placed firearms.
I agree, there is lucky involved as well. But the gun has the advantage of range, and unless they are within this unreactable striking distance, they will win.
Also, people seem to be calling "BS" even though the only justification they have is "Guns are sweet."
Also, these people seem to be fairly set in their beliefs even though they have not offered any background to defend their points.
Also, from the sounds of it, they SHOULDNT fix our PvP. According to these guys a gun will always when no matter what they do help/fix us. (even though example after example have shown that TK's are defeating ranged users on a daily basis)
Right, but as we've seen from example from 2 people, what is the "striking distance?" True, there is that point where ranged has an absolute advantage and will always win, but where is that point?
Lets say we're very muchinside this unarmed strike zone, wearing a bullet proof vest. I think an unarmed master has just as much potential to kill as the quick draw master. I know they measure quick draw in nano seconds, but I would definately say less than a second to connect a hand to a head. Not saying get the hand back after the strike, but come on, we're not asking for the bullet to come back are we? True a strike to the head does not guarentee a victory, but neither does a bullet. This is why I said masters. The Unarmed Master probably knows where to hit to kill, and the Quick Draw Master's shot would be accurate enough to ensure a kill.
Right, this is a game, not real life. You dont have to apply what we say to the game, cause these are extreme cases, but they are fact none-the-less.
Chino69 wrote:
...It takes practice and longterm devotion to master using your body against someone. So most true Martial Artists are few and far between. Yet any stupid fool can pick up a gun...
Chino,
This is great! I want to use it for my sig line to peave the pistoleers that pop in the TK board!
I think that this thread was very constructive and got people to think about things. I for one though, will never attempt to be a hero if held up with a gun, as long as the person only wants your money. Martial arts or no martial arts, if someone wants to kill you with a firearm, you have to do something. If someone wants to kill a family member, you do something. Whether or not you stop, disarm, injure, whatever the person with the gun is a mixture of skill and luck, and i believe mostly luck.
So... has anyone figured out how to get an FS slot?
How about just giving us more dodge abilites and more resist to KD's. Make a ranged user think twice about shooting a TKA. Or give us the Jedi jump attack:-) Where you fly to the target instantly!!!! owell, more defense is key. DOnt want to take all the fun out of it for them. Then where back where we started just another group of unhappy players.
Any type of MEZ attacks in games where there is pvp is a bad idea. No one likes to not being able to fight back and as of now thats all pvp is in this game, who knocks who down first.
"Also, people seem to be calling "BS" even though the only justification they have is "Guns are sweet."
Also, these people seem to be fairly set in their beliefs even though they have not offered any background to defend their points."
No where in thisthread did I see someone say "Guns are sweet". And why provide background ? If I did provide my background, whose to say I was telling the truth or not ?? Usually when someone offers upthe kinda of information the original poster provided, I am inclined to believe they are full of it. That would be like me going around a bragging that I am an ex-SEAL or any other spec ops operator. People who have that kind ofbackground (such as the original poster claims)are quiet people who don't brag about what they have done or can do. But it all boils down too, the post should not have been made. This is a game; a Star Wars game based on the movies that we have all seen defy the laws of space and physics. Any comparison to RL just should not be made.
One of the fundamental principles of martial arts involves emptying the mind. One use for such a technique would be in a fight. If you are able to empty your mind, and act/react without thinking, then fear is not blocking you. However, not many martial artists around have this level of skill. It totally depends on the people in the situation. I do believe that a TRUE martial arts master could take town your "average" street thug with a gun, if forced into that situation. I'm not saying the master could win 100% of the time, because there are so many variables you never know if one person will get shot or not. However, a true master would almost never end up in such a situation because true martial arts skill will keep you out of things of that nature. It's a fundamental aspect of the martial arts to avoid conflict and promote peace. Dumb luck will sometimes get you in a situation like that, but it isn't very likely.