Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: A RL Martial Arts Master's Opinion On TKA
What a BS post, nice fanasty ya got going there. Lets just say the guy did make a realistic truthful post, why do a few people insist on injecting their personal life on a forum obviously for a video game.
KamronKaii wrote:What a BS post, nice fanasty ya got going there. Lets just say the guy did make a realistic truthful post, why do a few people insist on injecting their personal life on a forum obviously for a video game.
It's not fantasy, it is REAL LIFE... It's not personal life, it's fact.
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:Zz9TnuZdCakJ:www.recguns.com/Sources/XI3.html
"Sorry, but you're wrong. In the realm of close quarters combat, police are TRAINED to shoot within 21 feet (that's almost 7 full meters boys...). That is the MINIMUM space needed for a shot on target to be cleared before an assailant is able to disarm, or worse, maim/stab/kill a police officer. Don't believe me? It's in numerous training manuals and the source of MUCH debate in the courtroom and out. I found this quote:
"I believe the police go by the "21 foot rule", as explained by Massad Ayoob in COMBAT HANDGUNS. In tests conducted by police trainers, a man standing 21 feet away from the "officer" could, from a standing start, cover 7 yards in 1 and 1/2 seconds. On average, it takes 1 and 1/2 seconds to react and draw and fire once. Even had pictures of a guy 15 feet away, ran toward Mas as he drew. He slapped him on the shoulder as he ran PAST him. Mas had BARELY cleared leather at this point, let alone got sight alignment. @21 feet, he got off one "shot" as guy passed him a split second later. Moral of the story: anyone with an impact/stabbing weapon 21 feet away is a DEADLY threat and should be treated as such. Easily demonstrated in court as well as caselaw."
In a discussion on rec.guns which explains my point. A BIG drill in my kung fu class is the blind reaction time. Attacker stands away from the defender, and charges without warning beginning any flurry of moves. It is the defender's job to train their reaction time and reaction thinking to be able to defend/counterattack. It's quite challenging. I think that holstering gun/rifles should be a requisite for ranged. You can read the original discussion here btw if you're interested in real life CQB:"
Sorry pal, this was not even the scenario of the original poster. According to him, the gunman already has the gun drawn and is pointing it. I am sorry, but if I had a gun drawn (lets say a 9mm with a full clip) from 7 ft on a target, that target is dead, period. Now, if you are actually pulling the gun from your holster as the target is coming at you, well, you may actually have a chance at survival. Oh, and if you arecharging at lets say, a SEAL Team Six or Delta operator whose weapon is holstered, you don't have a snowballs chance in hell at living, I don't care if you are Bruce Lee.
Hey, if you want real life... don't play. Seriously, in real life we cannot see focused light (ie. lasers) without some distortioning effect. On top of that, the weapons in SWG do not fire a long easily-discernible trajectory either. So basically what this means, is when you fire a shot while moving and your enemy is moving, every time you fire the shot, you have no prior calibration of the shot - every shot is practically new. You can't think in your head, I missed by a 1 foot to the left (you cannot see the shot).
Back to reality...
KamronKaii wrote:Sorry pal, this was not even the scenario of the original poster.
Did you read my caveat?
I think that holstering gun/rifles should be a requisite for ranged.
Carbon, was your post directed at me or the original poster ?? I was thinking the original poster.
"Did you read my caveat?
I think that holstering gun/rifles should be a requisite for ranged."
Yes I did see that, and ??? You were posting articles trying to defend this guys BS post and you countered with my first post saying it was not fanasty, when actually it is fanasty.
It was directed at whoever is reading this topic. This game is based on sci-fi fantasy to begin with. However, even that fantasy was based somewhat off reality to have some point of reference.
In real life, you'd probably die after one or two shots from a ranged attack. Yet, the same can be said that if an uncanny martial artist of the future came after you.
I still think the only advantage of ranged attackers should be their range. Once you close that (and you should be able to), and assuming you aren't dead yet, you should be able to rip them a new one. We're speaking one on one of course. Throw in more people and the TKA begins to lag behind even more.
I'm a MA in real life as well, practicing Isshin-ryu karate (an art that originated in Okinawa), and I would have to say that it is a bold statement to say eitherthat unarmed beatsfirearms orfirearms beats unarmed.
Part of Martial Arts is knowing to act and react. So when Jet Li said that it would be wiser to give your money to someone who was robbing you at gunpoint, it definitely holds true. And in doing so, believe or not, you are using martial arts. Because you are a survivor.
There's a movie called Joe Somebody, and I know it is kind of a retarded Tim Allen movie (no offense to all you toolman fans!) but the end holds so much true when he has to fight the guy. He doesn't fight and asks his sensai if he would've beat the guy if he did fight. And the sensai replies that he just did.
I know I've been trained to redirect and disarm attackers who are armed with a gun, but of course everything is very situational. All you do is learn the best way to keep alive. Because that's what it's all about. But obyo, you're kind of missing the point with the "sh*t your pants factor," because part of the Martial arts training involves handling hesitation and acting quickly. So a person who has built enough muscle memory in training will react quickly.
The thing to be aware of is this: It takes practice and longterm devotion to master using your body against someone. So most true Martial Artists are few and far between. Yet any stupid fool can pick up a gun. And at most times it is a stupid fool that is using that gun. If a person put that much dedication into using a firearm it may be different. And it is very hard even for trained people to shoot something that is moving.
The gun's advantage lies mostly in the fear that revolves around it. Yet, the only point that can kill you is from that small hole in the barrel (I don't want to hear about pistol whipping, they don't work like they do in SWG). And this is where learning comes in. It only takes very subtle movement to avoid the the line-of-fire. Add that into a teens hands who maybe has had a little practice, and you'd be amazed to see how well a person can "dodge bullets." But its just perception, because that line-of-fire has to have pinpoint accuracy.
I don't blame Kasamatsu for saying what he said. That "YOU ARE DEAD" statement reflects the martial artists perception of outcome. You can't have any other attitude in this, especially when someone draws a firearm on you. You have to convince yourself and know that you will kill him. Because that's what its all about-surviving.
I know this is so much more about RL then SWG, but I think more people should know about Martial Arts before they make rash decisions. The gun is a powerful tool, yes, but hardware is only as good as its operator. Maybe I can't catch your bullet in my teeth, but I sure will put all of my WILL and TRAINING to stop you.
So tired of reading the realism vs fiction and what it has to do with
the swg game.Until they fix the lame arse firing of guns through mountain
sides,trees,rocks and buildings ,gun firing in this game is about as unrealistic
as a martial artist taking on a gunman and winning 7 yards out.So bottom
line this whole game is unreal whether your unarmed or armed.
What people tend to forget is, that in a fight, both sides will be scared - the one with the gun too.
>I am sorry, but if I had a gun drawn (lets say a 9mm with a full clip) from 7 ft on a target, that target is dead, period.
You are making the same assumptions like the original poster. And if the RL background of the original poster if not faked, I tend to trust his opinion more than yours ...
The problem is, that 2 m arent much.
1st: If a martial artist is 2m away from a gun user, who hasnt drawn a gun, and is taking the initiative, there is defintelty no chance to draw the gun AND hit. Even if you fast draw, counting in your reaction time, you needapprox. one second AND you will need some room for your move, after 0.5 seconds you wont have this room ...
2nd: if your target is 2m away, its better to aim for the chest. because the head is a really small target zone, and if the target is moving, well, its not easy to reaquire the target in time.
3rd: a 9mm isnt the best man stopper. Even if you hit him, chances are high, that your taget wont be completly out of the fight. And an angry target in close combat can be quite painful.
But well, I think, we should discuss about game mechanisms here and dont mix real live with a game.
Because a game should be fun for all who play it :-)
And its hard to proof a point in an internet forum concerning RL experiences.
Not many of us on this forum have real live experiences with gun fights (me neither, and I hope, it stays this way). And the few who claim this, cannot proof it ...