Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: So.... what exactly is wrong with Stacking Defenses??
Solbeast
Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:44 pm
#27
No Woober the point of i was making out is this.. I worked my butt off grinding that template. Studied the skill points and actually planned my template. It's gettin ridiculous that they're nerfing every month for almost a year now. It's ridiculous that ive spend all those time grinding. I'vebecome a casual player after grinding alot over the summer. Tell me then since you are so smart.. what was the whole point of me grinding all my 250 skill points only to have it shot down because they cant seem to get anything right? And I'm the baby? The reason i picked TKA and rifleman was because they were the least broken profession.
So before you reply.. Save yourself the trouble of telling me how this is how it supposed to be blah blah. Why dont they fix something first before they nerf anything? How about fixing specials.. or Pikeman.. why dont they wait till all professions are fixed then start nerfing?
KnightHawk420
Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:53 pm
#28
Solbeast wrote:
No Woober the point of i was making out is this.. I worked my butt off grinding that template. Studied the skill points and actually planned my template. It's gettin ridiculous that they're nerfing every month for almost a year now. It's ridiculous that ive spend all those time grinding. I'vebecome a casual player after grinding alot over the summer. Tell me then since you are so smart.. what was the whole point of me grinding all my 250 skill points only to have it shot down because they cant seem to get anything right? And I'm the baby? The reason i picked TKA and rifleman was because they were the least broken profession.
So before you reply.. Save yourself the trouble of telling me how this is how it supposed to be blah blah. Why dont they fix something first before they nerf anything? How about fixing specials.. or Pikeman.. why dont they wait till all professions are fixed then start nerfing?
Broken specials don't cause
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
....... broken pikemen doesn't cause
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
kryject
Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:51 pm
#29
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=34839
Looks like miss miss miss to me.
dont care if the group was made up a novice marksman that where standing on there heads while shooting. How many shots dose it take? 100, 200, 300, 400?
Sharwen
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:37 am
#30
The really shocking thing is that they never saw this coming. If they had designed the system so that you can only use a particular weapon's skills when that weapon is equipped (like COB is now), we wouldn't be having this debate/argument. Not knowing that people would min/max? How could you not know that?
KingSnake777
Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:10 am
#31
KnightHawk420 wrote:
....... broken pikemen doesn't cause
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
___________________________________________________________________
..... yeah it does... just ask them. LOL.
KingSnake.
mega3113
Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:07 am
#32
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=34839
Looks like miss miss miss to me.
dont care if the group was made up a novice marksman that where standing on there heads while shooting. How many shots dose it take? 100, 200, 300, 400?
If that isn't doctored then all I have to say is extreme stacking is an issue. I have only fought these templates as a master and I miss, at most, two out of every three attempts. I didn't realize that novices were missing this much.
I still dont think getting rid of all stacking is the answer. I have roughly 110 to each melee and ranged defense and I get hit about %50 of the time by things of equal level to me. I rely on being missed as I dont wear armor. After the nerf I will have to wear armor or stop fighting anything other then easy creatures.
And, again, this does nothing to solve the uber armor/ master doctor buff issue which is as bad as stacking defenses.
Ways to solve this that dont cause everyone to go doctor:
- cap stacked defenses.
- dont allow second roll defenses to stack at all
- add encumbrence to armor that lowers defenses based on the power of the armor
- spread defenses throughout a classes skill tree so that one line doesn't give you all the benefit
Problem solved. People who dont want to wear armor dont have to and they will have the ability to structure their character to be as effective as people who do wear armor.
kryject
Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:13 pm
#33
My last comment was ment to sound silly. No they are not novices look at the attacks they are using. given most of them are pistol attacks and pistols have the lowest accuracy. Is pistol useless for PvP? dose every one have to be a rifleman so they have a chance at hitting a defence templates? forget about playing a commando they will never hit this template. My point was if a master of a given combat class has little chance of hitting a defence template how balanced is it? You can try to debuff but while you are trying to do that A) there just going to stay out of range for intimidate. B) Spam attacks on you tell your dead. There needs to be a cap or a big bump in accuracy for a master ofany givencombat class.
People have said in several other threads that they should be better if they spend all of there points on combat. You will still have several ways to fight, while someone that only takes up one class will have a limited ablity.
A Carbineer/Rifleman will be able to dizzy with rifle, KD with carbine, Strafeshot 2headshot3 or cripple shot. ACarbineer/Artisanwill justhaveCrippleshot, charging shot, leg shot 3(never played a carbiner so I dont know all of there attacks).But he wont be worthless in the GCW.
A TKM/Rifle would be deadly at range and still be deadly up close. Strafeshot 2, headshot 3, maybe a dizzy. If anyone gets close poof your a TKM, KD/Dizzy Mind hit, UA3, warcry,back to rifle for a strafe shot or headshot take your pick you have lots of options.
You still have an advantage withseveral combat class But people will have a chanceto hurt you with only one. If your a thug in PvP you will still be one but do you really need to be unhittable to over half of the people you fight? Where is the challange?
Solbeast
Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:43 pm
#34
BTW Pikeman does miss.. they hit everything around the target but the target.
If i am a thug? It's stupid that ive gotten 250 of my skillpoints dedicated to this type of template just for the purpose of not relying on armor and buffs. Sure i could have went w/ all offensive w/ bh pistol4 master pistoleer or bh carbine4 master carbineer... btw do a test.. those templates would hit 1 out of two times against templates like mine w/ the accuracy increase they did on a hotfix 3 weeks ago. Tell me how retarded this is when I am gonna be hit by a master pistoleer/architect or even dbed by one. Tell me how is that so against a full combat unit like mine.
Ive played almost every combat profession in this game now exception is the heavy swordsman. Dont try to tell me what is broken and wat is. I hate how ppl who die constantly to this template fail to realize that all you have to do is make a full offensive template and you're up to par. Im sorry that your master pistoleer/architect or what half combat template you are using is getting destroyed by this template.
kryject
Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:51 pm
#35
I'll agree to a point. I'm a TKM/doc butno amount of healing, buffs or armor will save me from rifleman. For that matter I have a hard time fighing anyone that uses ranged attacks. I dont usecomposite unless I have mind buffs, the encumberance is to much for me even with 1k focus.I do use ubese a lot 70% kenitic and low encumbrance. For me TKM is defence, I'm a doc first.
Yes a pistol/doc, carbine/doc, rifleman/doc is a force to be reconed with but they can be taken out by a master level fighter. You wont see a Doc/Rifleman standing still killing a group of 10 people. You can wear them down. Most of the time I see a stacked defence template fighting 1 of4 things happens. A CM uses Disease. They use to much HAM fighting and someone manages to get a lucky shot off for the kill. A group of 10+ suicide the person over and over. He gets bored and leaves. I dont see your point about buffs. You dont want to use them but you want to kill people that take the time to get buffed?To me thats like saying I want to kill people with this looted rifle even if they haveone made by a master weapon smith.Been a doc from day 1 so this is an odd concept to me. Plus there is nothing stoping, stacked defence + buffs + armor = god. Thankfully I have not run into that yet.
I'm asking for a level playing field where any combat class has a chance at killing any other combat class. I dont want to seepeople running around witha godly I pwnz youtemplate killing everyone that is not that template. As it standsa defencetemplate has very few weakness that are fairly easy to cover up. IMO there should be no beat all template and I see defence stacking as one.
As a side note if you use a status attack and the target counters, evades or blocks the status effect can still take affect. If you miss then it wont take affect.
mega3113
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:55 pm
#36
A Master Pistoleer/Master Dancer should have an extremely tough time fighting a Master elite combat class/ Master elite combat class. You spread your skill points into the non combat realm you should not be as effective as a total combat template. That's like me whining because I can't make stuff to sell as a total combat template character. Where is my level playing field? A total combat template should not own everyone else but it should beat a dabbler most of the time.
There is no advantage to mastering multiple combat classes after this next patch. Sure you can switch between weapons but that will do nothing for you when you face a buffed super armor wearer.
A unbuffed rifleman will only beat you as a MD/TKMif you are caught out on a wide open field or if you lag out.
kryject
Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:04 pm
#37
Last post. The kind of stacked defence I'm talking about is the kind show in the pic I posted. I have seen MBH/carbine miss over and over to that template. I'm not talking about.
TKA 0 0 0 4 melee defence 62 ranged 45
master rifle melee 40ranged 72
Fencer 4 0 0 0 melee69 ranged 56
pikeman 0 0 3 0 melee 15 ranged 10
Sword 0 0 3 0 melee 15 ranged 10
Master brawler melee 5 ranged 5
*drum roll* 206 melee and 198 ranged. Leave off pikeman, sword and master brawler and you have 75 skill points left with a loss of 35 melee and 25 ranged. So there is lots of room to dabble. Try looking at the other classes... notice if you total all of them they dont come close to thefirst 3 in defence. But your right you should be able to stack them and anyone that wants to have defence will be forced to be one of 3 classes. If you play one of the classes with low defence tuff luck. cant add in defences like rifle, fencer and TKA have cus those would just add to the problem.
Added bonus rifle accuracy 180. TKM 205. so everyone go TKM/Rifle/fencer if you to hit this template and want defences that will make really hard to hit by...
swordman 130 accuracy
Pikeman 150 accuracy
Fencers 120 accuracy
pistol 95 accuacy
carbine 120 accuracy
commando 110 FT, 110 acid rifle, 90 rocket lancher a few more weapons but you get the idea.
Bounty hunter (justfromthe BH line did not add in marksman)LLC 70, carbin 60 , pistol 60. you loss 10 point accuacy if you dont master BH.
BH/pistol would be 145 and carbine/BH would be 170.
This is base accuracy only dose not take into acount range or weapons accuracy mods.
Is it just me or dose this look a little off.
kryject
Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:08 pm
#38
pikeman 0 0 3 0 melee 15 ranged 10
Sword 0 0 3 0 melee 15 ranged 10
should be 0 0 4 0
mega3113
Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:17 pm
#39
Nobody is disagreeing with the fact that stacking defenses need to be capped. Please reread the thread.