Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Fix meditation dabbling?
DarthMarksman
Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:49 am
#14
OK, I will agree. TKMs do deserve a bonus on the meditation discipline for mastering the profession. But to take away the entire discipline for those who are not master would not be fair, in my opinion.
Mistwaver
Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:05 am
#15
DarthMarksman wrote:
OK, I will agree. TKMs do deserve a bonus on the meditation discipline for mastering the profession. But to take away the entire discipline for those who are not master would not be fair, in my opinion.
You are right... it would not be fair to those who have not mastered to leave nothing in there for them. But tat's where it can be confusing... is how the meditate line can be rewarding to those who haven't mastered the profession yet, but at the same time, be very rewarding to those who has mastered the profession.
I believe there are lots of ideas that can be put together to represent how the meditate and master boxes should be setup for meditation... it's just finding something that is rewarding for both masters and non-masters which can be a challenging task.
Right now all a TKM has over a 4000 TKA is they can heal wounds at twice the speed, and cure poison, disease, and bleeding quicker.
Gademis
Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:16 am
#16
perhaps at split the healing wounds depending on 2 things:
1st possibility is that only masters can heal the primary bars, and 4xxx can heal only secondary
2nd possibility could be that masters can heal health, strength and constitution while 4xxx mind and action.
what do you think?
1st possibility is that only masters can heal the primary bars, and 4xxx can heal only secondary
2nd possibility could be that masters can heal health, strength and constitution while 4xxx mind and action.
what do you think?
Mistwaver
Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:36 am
#17
Gademis wrote:
perhaps at split the healing wounds depending on 2 things:
1st possibility is that only masters can heal the primary bars, and 4xxx can heal only secondary
2nd possibility could be that masters can heal health, strength and constitution while 4xxx mind and action.
what do you think?
The first idea is excellent I think. Gives both the master box and the meditate boxes a use. Master heals primaries, 4xxx heals secondaries, I love it.
Gademis
Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:59 am
#18
Ofcourse we need more people's feedback on this.
So please people tell us what you think!
Then, we can pass this to Ryutek and if it's possible he could pass it on to the devs for the revamp.
So please people tell us what you think!
Then, we can pass this to Ryutek and if it's possible he could pass it on to the devs for the revamp.
TashunkaSapa
Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:29 am
#19
Grimror wrote:
There is no need to "fix" this. Its not broken. None of your uniqueness is infringed upon by allowing other people to use parts of TKA.
Well said. Meditation is a very balanced tree as it is - there's incentive to learn it all.
As usual, there's the unimaginative type who shouts "move it to Master!" as the solution for everything. If that were really a good idea, they could do away with skill points entirely and institute character classes.
Simple fact is, the skill points you get explicitly encourage dabbling, because there are very few cases where you won't have some left over to get a little bit of something. And those skills you dabble in should justify their cost just as much as any other skill.
Remember, people, a skill behaves the same way for everyone who takes it - the skill doesn't know if you are a "dabbler" or a "hardcore true TKA". Would you want a tree that's useless until Master just to discourage anyone else from using it? Sorry, I'm not keen on asking the Devs for nerfs - they dish out enough of them without encouragement.
To me, it doesn't matter that I intend to master TKM this weekend and plan to keep it for as long as possible; it doesn't bother me that a rifleman gets the same benefit from the skill as I do. He should - he spent the same number of points to get it, in fact it's a more dear expense to him as the Unarmed IV requirement isn't doing him any good. It's not something I feel a need to be worried about. Seeing an Architect meditating doesn't make me feel any less secure about being a 4-2-4-4 TKA... should it?
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Warp1001
Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:42 am
#20
Ryutek wrote:
Dabbling is not a bad thing. Dabbling in a small portion of a profession and getting most of the rewards is. With dabbling in meditation, the dabbler is not getting most of our skillset, and thus not a problem. I would, however, like to see something else added to meditation for those that Master.
I like the way you think.
I feel dabbling isa great part of this game, but the best content for each profession should be at the Master boxes too.
Malgg
Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:24 am
#21
I originally started out planning to dabble meditation, but enjoyed the TKA profession so much that I'm working toward Master.
Besides, TKA isn't the only profession getting dabblers. How many Pistoleers take Novice Commando for the Scatter Pistol Certification? Or how many Bounty Hunters take the Smuggler Dirty Fighting tree for the only ranged knockdown in the game?
'Dabbling' and making a cross-profession template is one of the strengths of the game, in my opinion.
Grimror
Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:01 am
#22
Malgg wrote:
I originally started out planning to dabble meditation, but enjoyed the TKA profession so much that I'm working toward Master.
Besides, TKA isn't the only profession getting dabblers. How many Pistoleers take Novice Commando for the Scatter Pistol Certification? Or how many Bounty Hunters take the Smuggler Dirty Fighting tree for the only ranged knockdown in the game?
'Dabbling' and making a cross-profession template is one of the strengths of the game, in my opinion.
Or how many people go fencer 4/4/4/0 for defenses, pistoler 0/0/4/0 for defs etc. Its part of the game. In all honesty, I would rather not have to dabble to complete my template as a hardcore melee tank type person, but the only way I can do this is by dabbling into aspects of other professions. Now imagine if pistoleers thought it was a problem that people took thier defensive branch, or fencers etc. Giving that last +25 mod or whatever we get in master for med more weight then it currently has, but w/o taking away what 4/0/0/0 or 4/3/0/4 med gives "dablers" is a good idea. Discouraging anyone from picking up any med by reserving powerboost, fow etc to master is just plain overkill.
Atama
Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:20 am
#23
"Dabbling was more than likely intended. I can't confirm it was, and I can't confirm it wasn't, but it just seems like dabbling pistol abilities from Bounty Hunter and Smuggler should be perfectly fine to use in a pistol specific template (Master Pistoleer)."
I can confirm it.
Actually when this game was being developed, the devs stated that their intention was to allow you freedom with your character. You could dabble in many professions but not be that great in any, or master a couple but have a limited variety of skills.
The problem is that people shouldn't be able to dabble in a profession and be great at it. When that occurs, the devs will sometimes make changes (anyone remember the massive Creature Handler revamp that shifted most of the benefits to the top of the profession?).
Mistwaver
Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 am
#24
JustG has said that type of dabbling was never intended andis broken. I completely supportdabbling, it's part of the mechanic in this game.Defense stacking... I do not support.What takes some of the fun out of PvP where someoneis so defensively stacked heor she is untouchable.Partially why they added the defense caps was because players were making themself impossible to hit.There are those who dabble just to make theirself "uber", aka defense stackers (which are more than likely being fixed in the combat revamp), and then there are those who dabble to gain access to carbine or pistol abilities in other professions. Completely acceptable. 
Each profession should have pros and each profession should have cons. Professions are masterable so each profession should have an equal amount of desire to master. However, at the same time, dabbling to gain those extra couple pistol abilities is completely fine as well. This is a mechanic thati s extremely hard to balance out. It's really a concept that is hard to explain. The TKA meditation isn't a "perk" that should benefit *all* professions. It just works that way. It's part of a profession. It'ssomething martial artists study in.Those who take this to the next level and master the profession should recieve a benefitthat those at 4000 do not get. This only seems fair to me. You still get an effect from dabbling it, but the masters get a much more rewarding effect.
I'll say the same about Carbineer, Pikeman, Fencer, Rifleman, or any other profession. Those who take it to the next step and master the profession should be exceedingly more powerful with the profession than those who dabble it just for a certain tree or tree(s). Teras Kasi Artistis the same thing with meditation. Those who master the professon should get a greater effect from meditation than those dabbling the meditation line. Of course, those who dabble it should get some sort of effect from it too. We don't want those feeling left out. I have a dabbler myself, just not my primary character.
To sum it up:
I support dabbling in general.
I do not support defense stacking.
I support meditation dabbling.
Masters should be rewarded for mastering the profession.
Dabblers should get rewarded for spending skill points on this branch.
Comments?
Message Edited by Mistwaver on 08-21-2004 01:41 PM
Mistwaver
Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:45 am
#25
Atama wrote:
"Dabbling was more than likely intended. I can't confirm it was, and I can't confirm it wasn't, but it just seems like dabbling pistol abilities from Bounty Hunter and Smuggler should be perfectly fine to use in a pistol specific template (Master Pistoleer)."
I can confirm it.
Actually when this game was being developed, the devs stated that their intention was to allow you freedom with your character. You could dabble in many professions but not be that great in any, or master a couple but have a limited variety of skills.
The problem is that people shouldn't be able to dabble in a profession and be great at it. When that occurs, the devs will sometimes make changes (anyone remember the massive Creature Handler revamp that shifted most of the benefits to the top of the profession?).
Well that makes sense.
I remember this very well... I was a MCH long ago (TKM/MCH). I was a 4433 CH, I actually benefited from this change. Prepatch I wasn't able to call my gurreck that a friend tamed and gave to me. Post patch I was... but it really made it tougher on those lower level CHs. I miss the old CH days, but in the long run this was probably done for the best...
Gademis
Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:04 pm
#26
Well FoW at master works anyway. For me it must have worked around 90% times in all situations. And I'm saying 90% even though I can't remember any time failing.
Though the reason ppl take our 4xxx branch is because of the wound healing and poison-disease removal (it has saved me many times from CM/something after a pvp with no docs).
I think at master it should do something new. Dunno what though
maybe a powerboost could boost a bit our secondaries (not as much as our primaries though), or maybe boost res to states since we're like in trance, or maybe boost poison - disease - bleed res, or combination of the above. If the did that though they would prolly have to take away something else since it would be a bit (or much) overpowering.
Though the reason ppl take our 4xxx branch is because of the wound healing and poison-disease removal (it has saved me many times from CM/something after a pvp with no docs).
I think at master it should do something new. Dunno what though
maybe a powerboost could boost a bit our secondaries (not as much as our primaries though), or maybe boost res to states since we're like in trance, or maybe boost poison - disease - bleed res, or combination of the above. If the did that though they would prolly have to take away something else since it would be a bit (or much) overpowering.