Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: TKA Vs fencing
Valkari-TKM wrote:
This type of thing seems to come up alot. Maybe TKA should have required master brawler to reach novis TK. the comparison vs TKA and other melee professions is alot like apples and oranges.
It's not apples and oranges because all of them take 92 points, they're all melee professions and have the same kind of prereqs. It's apples and apples.
fencing is more closly related to pistol then anything else. fencing is simply mastering the art of using 1handed weapons. Infact they probably should have vibro certs, but then who would want to use a vibro when other weapons are better.
To be more closely related to pistols than unarmed, I'd think fencers would need more than melee range, and more damage types. Don't you?
The TKA isn't the skill of unarmed as so many people would like to think. The TKA profession is more closly linked to an order, such as Jedi. This is why we have meditation tree. What does meditation have anything to do with unarmed? not a **edit** thing, but it is infact a seperate by itself self sustained hybrid melee profession. an order as i said.
There's nothing "hybrid" about TK. It's an elite profession, same as swordsmen, pikemen and fencers.
The TKAs are supposed to counter Jedi's. On one hand you have force sensitive jedis running around. that not only learn to use the force, and a light saber, but learn other skills like deplomacy and negotiations. They arn't just taught how to fight, but how to prevent fights aswell. The TKA order was established because of fear of so much power in the hands of so few. TKs rivialed jedis in power...need an example read shadows of the empire.
We're not in Shadows of the Empire. We're in Star Wars Galaxies, where TKs won't have a prayer against Jedi.
*snipped a whole bunch of comparisons between fencers and TKs*
over all combat: overall i think people just focus on TKAs dmg and forget the rest of the stuff, comparativly between fencing and tk overall combat effectiveness w/o the use of any other skills, they are pretty close IMO that is.
No offense, but I think you need to go play a fencer if you actually believe they compare to TK. They don't. It's not even close.
The thing that sets the two apart is the meditation line. healing wounds, and being able to add buffs to the class is why alot of people might pick tk over fencing.
Yah, and mind damage. And targeting any pool. And higher defense. Does fencer get a knockdown? Cause I know swordsmen don't. And Unarmed Damage mods. Not to mention that your "healing wounds" doesn't even begin to do justice to the meditation line. You forgot poison cure, disease cure, bleed cure.
None of the melee professions want to see TKs nerfed. We want to be brought up to the level of the TK. And contrary to what you posted, that gap is pretty large.
Where's my 64m range?
Valkari-TKM wrote:
compare fencing to pistol, compare swords to carbine, and compare pikemen to riffle. dont compare it to tk.
i think your missing my point, i got your point load and clear, but i just disaggree. TK was intended to be more then simply mastering a type of dmg. it is the more a class then a profession.
i understand that many melee personal are suffering, but you should compare your class's with the effectiveness of the class's: carbine pistol and rifflemen. range isn't an issue. riffle has the same range as pistol. the control is the dmg and speed. you give up dmg for speed, and power for finesse.
I dont like to compare TK to other melee class's for two reasons.
1) there nothing like each other, and TK is nothing like the ranged versions either.
2) TK needs work still, but fencing swords and pikemen need more work, i do not want to see other melee class's using TK as a bench mark of what to exspect or demand, because idealy how it is suposed to work is that you pick fencing and then master in another profession.
right now TK has a huge advantage because it has the same prereqs as you. do i think thats fair? no but i also think that tk should have had master brawler, but thats just not the case. one day there will be a TK elite elite, count on it, because of their blunder of allowing tks to master tk for the same points.
you guys should have some compensation though, but im not a fencer, and this is the TK forums thus i concentrate on tk issues, and let fencers concentrate on fencing issues. bottom line as far as im concerned is that TKs need more work still, we are not finished yet. does that make you angry? im sorry thats just my thought.
Valkari-TKM wrote:
i think your missing my point, i got your point load and clear, but i just disaggree. TK was intended to be more then simply mastering a type of dmg. it is the more a class then a profession.
No, I'm reading your point loud and clear. You feel that TKs should be far more powerful than every other melee because of some nerdish books. This position is NOT backed up by a larger number of skill points required.
You're taking your opinions and projecting them onto the game, and then asking that balance be made off of them.
i understand that many melee personal are suffering, but you should compare your class's with the effectiveness of the class's: carbine pistol and rifflemen. range isn't an issue. riffle has the same range as pistol. the control is the dmg and speed. you give up dmg for speed, and power for finesse.
Range isn't an issue? You'll pardon me if I begin to doubt that you're even a melee at all, much less a TKM.
2) TK needs work still, but fencing swords and pikemen need more work, i do not want to see other melee class's using TK as a bench mark of what to exspect or demand, because idealy how it is suposed to work is that you pick fencing and then master in another profession.
Says who? You? Show me a dev quote to back that opinion up.
*well those nerdish books are the corner stone of this game
*and yes TK will always be more powerfull toe to toe then fencing....justified by? by the fact that our profession is granted meditation line. as i said before our combat relations are practicaly the same, except we out dmg you by large margins with styles at higher ham exspense.
*oh im a TK and i might on that same token doubt you are a fencer, because ive played fencing and know first hand its not the weak sheep that you are pretending it is.
*perhaps you should be focusing on getting your class if you are a fencer buffed. would i be upset if fencing got buffs? no i think they should rofl.
* the only thing that will prohibit the TK to be on the same plains as jedi is the perma death and the unlocking aspect of jedi. They will make jedi far ahead of TK because of those two reasons. we get to clone, but idealy the tk is about 85% of the ability of a jedi.
you seem as if you have a bad syndrome of the grass is greener. ive played both, and ive said i think TK is better, but then i have said that i believe that is justifed. you disagree. your right to. my right to also stand by my opinion aswell.
we have disadvantages that are not the same as fencing, and we have advantages that exceed fencing.
*hint* work to get your class enchanced
oh and the range thing you are obviously not hearing me so i wont continue to try to keep explaining it to you. reread my post maybe it will register after a good nights sleep.
listen its not my goal here to ruffle your feathers
lets just leave it as i posted my opinion, im gonna stick by what i said, and i believe what i said 100%. your argument is solid, i just happen to disagree. If i was a fencer id ask the same question you are to a certian degree. Pikemen are far worse off then you and swords are. pikemen IMO needs to be looked at asap. yes ive played pike. witht he bleed dots swords is really ahead of you and pike. suposidly your speed and low ham costs are suposed to compensate, but its left you a bit shorted. i buy that, and i aggree.
Zitrox this is a reply to your original question. Forgive me if someone has already said this but I didnt read the whole thread.
Does it really matter who can do the most damage? IMHO you lose a lot if you play by just pushing buttons. My advice is to choose a profession you enjoy. If you play something just because you have seen someone else play it well you are going to be disappointed.
Choose a profession that feels right to you. Make your character a badass.
My 2 cents. 
Good lord man!
7534..please let me see that screenshot.
I am a TKM, my VK is 2.3 170dmg (184dmg too), I dont really check combat window often, so i havent noticed many actuall numbers, the ones i have noticed arent any where near, 7k. Prone or not. Ive popped Many prone Tuskan Snipers, but i dont believe it was for 7k.....
I gotta start watching my combat window, only thing is i havent gone against normal enemies in a while, too much time in the booines, fighting freaks. 
I started a new character as abrawler/scout/medic on Chilistra. Advancing to expert fencer, swordsman or pikeman is a lot faster than expert unarmed. I am working each profession only one box at a time so as to keep the tree level. As it is going now, it appears to take almost twice as long to progress inthe unarmed line. No weapon =less damage = lower xp mobs.
Caelrie wrote:
CalipsoX wrote:
Keep the arguement constructive that last one by the fencer was a little more of an attack then a valid point.
I'm usually very pleasant and constructive.
I guess I get a bit ruffled when someone who spent the same amount of points as me in a profession out of the same base profession as me tells me it's my job to be a gimp and his to be the god of all melee. Saying if I want to compete I should have to master a second elite profession to compare with his one.
It's BS, pure and simple. And 85% of a Jedi's power? He's delusional.
touche`
I can read do i get a reward? doesn't matter.
please re-read what i said. 85% of jedi is a fair estimate according to many star wars resources relating to this topic. specificly for SWG i mentioned that this would not be the case because of the obvious perma death, and having to unlock the FS slot. delusional......about what?
ya know the other day Rush Limbaugh said "eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb got more attention from the media then he deserved, because he is black" many people are calling Rush Limbaugh a raciest because of that statment.
this really is not a race issue, but an Inferance issue. The same as our debate. Inferance is by simply stating somthing, the viewer automaticly thinks of a reaction thought, that isn't specificly what the speaker intended, but sometimes it can be.
I infered information and opinion, and you asumed somthing i did not intend for you to asume. That is a comuncation error, or miss use of fact vs opinion.
I never said that TKs should be Gods of all melee, or I think TKs are Gods of all melee. I said TKs are better, because the profession offers more then combat skills. I said the idea behind the class was more then simply mastering a weapon. it was the use of stances, body weight, and meditation practices that transfer from the mind to the body to deleiver more percise hits, harder hits, and higher toughness of charecter, then most any other skill with a hand to hand weapon. This is an idea of what Devs were following when they made the TKA. notice meditation line, notice combat equilibrium. notice higher toughness, and notice our +dmg mods. These things are not pressent either at all , or to the degree that TKA has, in Fencing.
Because of the multi aspects of the TKA profession, it will always have an advantage vs fencing because of it. only by seriously nerfing our combat performance would it even out. The answer to your questions lyes on the fencing forums to better your class, not here on the TK forums to suggest that TKs are better, thus either
1) need a nerf
2) dont need improvements
based: based off other melee. The comparison of TK should never be that of other melee class's for that reason.
Get mad all you want, but the idea behind what the devs are designing in terms of a TK (CLASS) and its important to know that this is more then a profession, or understand that atleast, is that this will never be worse dmg per second toe to toe then any other melee class in the game. It will in fact most likly always be higher.
*note* i do not believe that armor was really intended for TKs to use. although its offered to everyone exlcuding wookies, the orginal ham costs of TK plus the encumberance forced TKs to go armor less, and i believe that was the orginal intent *opinion* i believe Tks and our corespondant should make striving attempts to limit the use of armor by our class, but compensating us by upping our defenses and toughness.
final thought. we use the same points to get master that you do, and ive stated many times that based on our performance, and the idea behind what a TK is how powerfull they are intended to be, and what they can do, we should have had master brawler as a prereq. This is not the case now, doesn't mean it wont be in the future. or doesn't mean that they wont add an elite elite profession to keep TKs involed into TK, and not getting somthing such as doctor and what not.