Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: TKA Vs fencing
CalipsoX wrote:
Keep the arguement constructive that last one by the fencer was a little more of an attack then a valid point.
I'm usually very pleasant and constructive.
I guess I get a bit ruffled when someone who spent the same amount of points as me in a profession out of the same base profession as me tells me it's my job to be a gimp and his to be the god of all melee. Saying if I want to compete I should have to master a second elite profession to compare with his one.
It's BS, pure and simple. And 85% of a Jedi's power? He's delusional.
Caelrie wrote:
2) TK needs work still, but fencing swords and pikemen need more work, i do not want to see other melee class's using TK as a bench mark of what to exspect or demand, because idealy how it is suposed to work is that you pick fencing and then master in another profession.
Says who? You? Show me a dev quote to back that opinion up.
Says Every other melee profession. Check it out in the other forums. You guys are melee gods, and still cry about wanting to have "plastic Man" arms to attack 5m away, when a vibrolance only has a 4m range. What kind of **edit** is that? your HAM costs are no worse than Pikeman costs. your defenses are MUCH better than ANY other melee class, and you hit jusst a hair less than a melee guy in PvP, which is more than offset by the fact that you hit MUCH faster than any other class! Any melee tourney is always won by TKA's. Every other melee class is a joke. PERIOD
I'm a 2.3.0.0 TK along with being a 0.4.0.0 fencer and intend to master 2-hand and Polearm.(2.1.2.1 pike). the fact is, you guys have the world handed to you, and you still complain. other melee classes only ask for equilibration. Do you know that Pikmen hit 3 only does approx 3x damage, when the other classes, including TKA does approx 4x? Don't you agree that the Pike class SHOULD be the hardest hitting, albeit the slowest? If you guys complain about not seeing your HAM drop from the patch, Imagine how Pikemen feel about not even being patched to begin with???
I mean, first with meditation gifts, and various abilities granted to TKA's it already makes you the jack of all trades, master of none. However, the defense, the Increased range you'll now get the HAM costs you're gonna get make you the Jack of all trades, and master of all you survey!!!!!
problem is, because I am jaded, and I do have some TK ability, I find it hard to believe that you really need more help. I understand lowering ham costs somewhat, but no one is forcing you to use specials. even when I use my pike, which is the worst HAM weapon, I limit my specials to intimidat and berserk when in a party.
so cry me a river about fixing TKA, although power boost needs help, and I don't know much about force of will.
KrazyKilroy wrote:
problem is, because I am jaded, and I do have some TK ability, I find it hard to believe that you really need more help. I understand lowering ham costs somewhat, but no one is forcing you to use specials. even when I use my pike, which is the worst HAM weapon, I limit my specials to intimidat and berserk when in a party.
so cry me a river about fixing TKA, although power boost needs help, and I don't know much about force of will.
di'an from intrepid?
ofcourse TK could use some work, you would be ignorant to think otherwise. there are issues that aren't even effecting the game but in theory will, that we need to be thinking about so that in the future it isn't passed over. some of these issues are things that effect all melee.
if you really care, read the thread, post by post, and not the last thing on the bottom. i make many points, and so does the people who disagree.
this thread, or what i said was not directed at you, nothing was. i didnt write this and say "what would di'an want" there is no need to tell me to stop crying you a river. 1) like you said your jaded 2) your uninformed about tka issues as you have stated ( a general guess) 3) a disgruntled pikemen is not somone id exspect to understand tka concerns 4) and finaly people who asociate with extremes tend to miss many things along the way. this is not whining, this is not complaining, this isn't (crying rivers). its a debate, learn how to do that, and you wont find yourself angry with every person who you disagree with.
Valkari-TKM wrote:
this thread, or what i said was not directed at you, nothing was. i didnt write this and say "what would di'an want" there is no need to tell me to stop crying you a river. 1) like you said your jaded 2) your uninformed about tka issues as you have stated ( a general guess) 3) a disgruntled pikemen is not somone id exspect to understand tka concerns 4) and finaly people who asociate with extremes tend to miss many things along the way. this is not whining, this is not complaining, this isn't (crying rivers). its a debate, learn how to do that, and you wont find yourself angry with every person who you disagree with.
I'm not directing any of this toward any one TK member, but to the group in a whole.
1) yes I am jaded, but I am skilled in some TK abilities, so I am not ignorant of the situation
2) Except for Force of will, I am VERY informed of TK abilities. refer to 1. yes, some of the non-fighting abilities need to be worked on, but as for fighting tanks, you need to keep a low profile lest they take some of it away.
3) once again, please refer to 1. I wouldn't even say anything if I didn't have some experience in the situation. If I were a marksmen, i wouldn't care at all about a 2 meter extension on your vibro knuckles. however, a one meter range over a POLEARM is ludicrous, PERIOD!
4) if you consider this extreme, you're wrong. I can see that you're an intellectual person from your statement across this thread. But across this forum you've seen more than enough TKA=ownage threads, and you know in your hearts that this is true. as a melee in ALL categories, all I ask for is a little equilibrium. IF you are a melee fighter in every category like me, then I'm sorry, but I don't believe you are. That is how I say that you really can't give but so much comment from a rose-colored vision that you have.
i think making the pre reqs MB is a great idea but how will they implement taht
the only thing i can think of is just giving MB to tkas without the work for exp but still have to give up the skill points for it, i dont see any other way
KrazyKilroy wrote:
Valkari-TKM wrote:
this thread, or what i said was not directed at you, nothing was. i didnt write this and say "what would di'an want" there is no need to tell me to stop crying you a river. 1) like you said your jaded 2) your uninformed about tka issues as you have stated ( a general guess) 3) a disgruntled pikemen is not somone id exspect to understand tka concerns 4) and finaly people who asociate with extremes tend to miss many things along the way. this is not whining, this is not complaining, this isn't (crying rivers). its a debate, learn how to do that, and you wont find yourself angry with every person who you disagree with.
I'm not directing any of this toward any one TK member, but to the group in a whole.
1) yes I am jaded, but I am skilled in some TK abilities, so I am not ignorant of the situation
2) Except for Force of will, I am VERY informed of TK abilities. refer to 1. yes, some of the non-fighting abilities need to be worked on, but as for fighting tanks, you need to keep a low profile lest they take some of it away.
3) once again, please refer to 1. I wouldn't even say anything if I didn't have some experience in the situation. If I were a marksmen, i wouldn't care at all about a 2 meter extension on your vibro knuckles. however, a one meter range over a POLEARM is ludicrous, PERIOD!
4) if you consider this extreme, you're wrong. I can see that you're an intellectual person from your statement across this thread. But across this forum you've seen more than enough TKA=ownage threads, and you know in your hearts that this is true. as a melee in ALL categories, all I ask for is a little equilibrium. IF you are a melee fighter in every category like me, then I'm sorry, but I don't believe you are. That is how I say that you really can't give but so much comment from a rose-colored vision that you have.
Its nice to have a discussion on a level were we are fighting at each others throats.
background: ive dabbled in alot of things after hitting master TK, from squad leader to medic, to comando, to smugler, to pistoleer, to rifflemen, to cH, and yes even other melee professions.
I was once master TK, master brawler, and a full master tier in each of the other 3 melee professions.
very much like what you have done but you are going to be master swords. I did not have the acruacy bonuses in pike, or the speed bonuses in fencing, or the speed and acuracy in swords, when i leveled these up.
my impression of fencing just leveling stances and gripes, then doing master footwork, and droping stances and gripes, was that even w/o the Mods I was still doing over 300 dmg with a curved sword at cap speed. same speed as tka. the only diferance between TKA and fencing other then meditation line, is our little extra dmg about 100 unstyled, and the huge difearnce in special dmg. UH3 does double the dmg of the best fencing special....then again it costs most TKAs over 200 ham to pull this off.
did you know that UH2 that we get at novis is nearly double more efficient then UH3? i can pull a 11.7 dmg per ham in pve with UH3, while UH2 is 18.9 only costing me 77 ham per hit.
unarmed has always been 5m as long as i can remember. vibro knucklers on the other hand have a 3m range, and thus was not as good as being unarmed in terms of range. we had serious issues with hitting big targets in PVE because of it, wich made us have to un-equipt our VKs to do any dmg at all. simply moving forward did nothing at all. all they did in this patch was bring the range of the VKs in line with the range of unarmed.
i see equilibrium and i find it ironic, because that is a tk issue aswell.....our equilibrium doesn't work right now...our skill that is, that lets us stay on our feet and incorperate our defenses more effeciently.
but what you mean is the balance of melee claces. respectivly this is a very complex issue. as i have said in many posts, tk is not a good comparison, and i won't go into that right now why that is.
on the otherhand tka costs the same points as other melee class's, and perhaps that is why elite elite profession for tk is being discussed. to keep the tks in tk.
I fought a swordsman today in pvp, and he did very well with this bleed shot, and in fact owned many people, there is alot of circumstances involved with judging these things. but i will specificly look at one coment you made in a previous post to elaberate.
you said that in a melee tournement tks always win. (w/o taking KD into considerationg, just an old faschioned fight to the death unstled) the tka is always hitting cap speed, and usualy has higher dmg per second, plus take into account that we have the best toughness of any melee class...a 57% absorb and a 62% absorb to kinetic if MB will result in the tk usualy always winning. why is this? this is the strength of the TK. he received higher toughness because of his high ham costs orginaly, because he/she was not intended to really use armor. our melee and ranged defense are better, but not by alot compared to fencing. our defenses vs effects are the worst, and our equilibrium was supposed to counter this.
this really has to go back to the ideal and the design of the professions. like ive said in previous posts. the tka was suposed to be a hybrid type melee profession. an order. limited on one hand with range ham use, not wearing armor. but able to deliver serious hurt to the target if the tka gets into the propper position. one of the reasons elite elite is being talked about, and one of the reasons i have suggested MB being a prereq to tka if elite elite doesn't go in.
the pikemen is another story, right now they are drasticaly in need of some help, as i have stated their accuracy sucks, and really needs help, they are going to have a 3 second cap, and dmg per second is equated in front load.
i played a polearms armsman in DOAC, you dont have to tell me how frusterating it was finishing fights being so slow. it seemed as i missed every hit. i can deffinatly relate to pikemen
Atama wrote:
Of course you do more damage later. If you look at the TKA skill tree you see damage bonuses sprinkled throughout the skill boxes. Also, you get faster and more accurate with your attacks which also increase the amount of damage done in a certain amount of time.
Another thing to consider is that if you wear a vibroknuckler you do double damage per hit.
However, I doubt you saw anyone doing 2000 damage. I hope you meant 200. I've done over 400 in one blow as a TK Student while berserk, but nowhere close to 2000.
You may have misunderstood him...or maybe I did. I think he meant PvE he saw someone doing 2k, which I assure you is very possible. I am only a novice TKA 0-0-0-0 and I can do over 1k with UH2 and vks on (which isnt very smart but I just tried it to see what my damage was). Thats PvE. If he really was talking PvP, then I would be very surprised and scared if a TKA did 2k damage in one attack, even if the guy was a rifleman and lying down...that still means he would have hit for over 8k before 75% PvP reduction!