Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: KD resist: TKM vs. Pistoleer
In terms of defenses, I'm sure most Pistoleers would gladly trade you 30 points of Defense Against Knockdown forthe TKA Toughness, Melee Defense, orRanged Defense bonuses.
Seriously, what IS +50 Against Knockdown? What does that mean?
The other defenses definitely work, but all the state defenses are much more nebulous as to whether they're doing anything - and what the numbers mean.
Also try to remember...Its no the KD that hurts its the DIZZY. To counter this pick up Dizzy D from different professions, for instance 0/0/4/0 Pistoleer.
My .02
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Umm what does it matter that a pistoleer gets a better mod to knockdown?Overall we TKA's are a great class and can't expect to be the best at everything.Yes i know the original TKA descriptionhad something along the lines of "almost imppossible to knockdown", yes that statement would be innacurate but then again alot of the classes original descriptions are innacurate.
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A ranged KD move will always be 100% easier to applythanTKA's KD the moment that first totally useless lunge move is applied. 30s later, after the lunge timer is done, we are on 'even ground' again, so to speak. But, of course, what one-on-one PvP battle lasts longer than 30s? Especially when the ranged fighter is able to pummel you into the dirt during that 30s interval, while a strong TKA--even a MASTER--can do NOTHING.
At the very least, our KD resistance should be augmented, to counter-balance the poorly-designed lunge timer 'fix' that the devs stupidly put in the game a while back.
Metherian well in the case of pistoleers their KD isn't ranged it's mellee range as well, that's why they call it pistol mellee defense!So when you go up against a pistoleer your actually on even ground at all times when it comes to getting a KD off.TKA does NOT need to have it's KD defense upped it's just one of our limitations.As to stopping shot being overpowered that's BS pretty much every ranged proffesion has an attack that can do more damage and be shot just as fast as stopping shot if their at master status.
But apparently TKA isn't supposed to have limitations, least that seems to be the tone from a good portion of the board.Apparently some TKA's just can'tappreciate our class for what it is.I swear some of you guys won't be happy til mellee range is extended to 64m, it's ridiculous.And apparently some think that spending the 90 odd points for TKM entitles them to everything that others spend 250points on a good balanced template.TKA has inherent limitations built into it just like every other class, they are not supposed to be the "be all end all" proffesion all for the low low price of just 90 odd skill points.
If your having trouble coping with ranged in pvp then practice and learn some tatics,if you still can't seem to overcome it then spend some of your extra 150 skill points on some ranged.Also i can't stress enough the importance of using buffs and good armor, get full buffs and some 80% composite and spend your 250 SP wisley and you can take on a small army.Heck i got KD/dizzzied the other day while in bestine and was down for more then a minute with 4 people wailing on me, but from the buffs and armor they could barley scratch me, when i got up i wasted them all.
And for all the complaining i see TKA's doing about other proffesions misrepresnting us and spreading misinformation about us, it suprises me to see so many TKA doing the exact same thing about other proffesions.
[ "Metherian well in the case of pistoleers their KD isn't ranged it's mellee range as well, that's why they call it pistol mellee defense!So when you go up against a pistoleer your actually on even ground at all times when it comes to getting a KD off.TKA does NOT need to have it's KD defense upped it's just one of our limitations.As to stopping shot being overpowered that's BS pretty much every ranged proffesion has an attack that can do more damage and be shot just as fast as stopping shot if their at master status." ]
I said 'ranged fighter', not pistoleer (despite what the thread title says)--this includes smuggler, bounty hunter, etc. As a TKM who has played since release, let me tell you that ranged dabblers are more prevalent than TKM's and, as such, tend to have a full 'bag of tricks' available to them. Also, just because a pistoleer's melee defense is a 'melee' move, that doesn't diminish the fact that they can kiteusfor 30 seconds, apply bleeds, follow up KD's, etc. while we are defenseless. I'm not saying this is wrong, by the way. However, if you want to put things in the proper perspective, then lets get all of the facts straight, and not just those relevant to the ranged professions, okay?
You see, the devs still have not addressed the kiting problem in any effective way--this is the ultimate crux of many of the TKA's problems (in PvP, at least). Sorry if you just don't see this. As someone who has been playing TKA since release, I consider it a foregone conclusion that most people understand this vast limitation, and therefore can understand why TKA's consider most calls for a TKA 'nerf' to be rather absurd. Sure, from a simply 'numbers' standpoint, the call for a nerf might be valid. But you have to actually PLAY the TKA profession before you can pass that judgment. (And I mean really play it ... full PvE and PvP experience.) Apparently, you're happy with TKA losing half of the time to a ranged fighter at close range. If this isn't the case, then I have to assume that the only ranged fighters you're going up against are novices andnoobs who don't know how to PvP.
["But apparently TKA isn't supposed to have limitations, least that seems to be the tone from a good portion of the board.Apparently some TKA's just can'tappreciate our class for what it is.I swear some of you guys won't be happy til mellee range is extended to 64m, it's ridiculous.And apparently some think that spending the 90 odd points for TKM entitles them to everything that others spend 250points on a good balanced template.TKA has inherent limitations built into it just like every other class, they are not supposed to be the "be all end all" proffesion all for the low low price of just 90 odd skill points."]
Now you're just putting words in people's mouths. No one has ever said that they want TKA to be 'uber' or godlike. (If you cared look, you would have searched through some of my previous posts, where I reiterate this sentiment ad nauseum.) Again, you fail to see the vast range limitation that TKA's are up against. Instead, you're looking at the sitauation in a simplified, unilateral fashion that in no way supports your own argument. Have you even been in a PvP battle? Are you a TKM? Howdo you fare against fully-buffed, novice pistoleers?
["If your having trouble coping with ranged in pvp then practice and learn some tatics,if you still can't seem to overcome it then spend some of your extra 150 skill points on some ranged.Also i can't stress enough the importance of using buffs and good armor, get full buffs and some 80% composite and spend your 250 SP wisley and you can take on a small army.Heck i got KD/dizzzied the other day while in bestine and was down for more then a minute with 4 people wailing on me, but from the buffs and armor they could barley scratch me, when i got up i wasted them all."]
lol ... I love this phrase: "practice and learn some tactics". It's commonly used by: a) people who have never played the TKA profession, and have nothing else better to say. b) people who usually play a ranged profession in the game, and can't help but see any melee-based concern as a 'gripe, or c) people who are min/maxer stat-hounds, who routinely look at the numbers and statistics (instead of actually playing the profession in question) and then make callow pronouncements that sound like so much empty wind. Typically, these people don't PvP all that much, but ... oh.... they know what they're talking about. (Incidentally, why don't you list your top five TKA 'tactics', since you have all the knowledge? I'm sure we'd all love to hear your wisdom .... lol.)
I've been playing TKA since release. I know there are several 'tactics' that melee fighters can employ. However, this does not diminish the fact that there are some serious 'issues' with kiting and ranged fighters being at a vast adavantage, even at close range. (Incidentally, the devs have recently corroborated this claim.) My argument is founded on comparing melee and ranged professions on a one-for-one basis, from a playability standpoint, not just the numbers. (BTW, I also dabbled in pistoleer/smuggler for quite a while after release, and I know very clearly how mindlessly EASY PvP is for ranged fighters comparedto TKA.)
As long as you simply ignore all of the advantages that ranged fighters have over melee fighters (kiting, applying KD at 50m, etc. ) and how they can be linked together to create even greater advantages (knockdown / kiting with follow up KD), then you have nothing to say that is of any importance in my opinion. You're simplifying the facts for the sake of your own argument.
Now, again, don't assumethat I'm merely 'bitching'and 'get me wrong': I'm not saying that TKA should be "all powerful" or 'godlike". All I'm saying is that thingsneed to be moreeven when it comes to PvP. Why should melee fighters always have to resort to special 'tactics' (as you call them), even when fighting at close range? Whyshould we be subject to a 30slunge timer (which effectively renders us powerless) while other professions caneffortlessly apply bleeds, posture changes, KDs, and state modifiers in constant rotation because they can't even be hitwhile kiting?
Oh, hell ... why do I freakin' bother?
Well metherian you quoted me when i was talking about pistoleers, now you respond with I said "ranged fighter', not pistoleer" you can see why I would assume that you were saying that pistoleers have a ranged KD as that was what i was talking about and you quoted me to adress your point.
As to you saying "Apparently, you're happy with TKA losing half of the time to a ranged fighter at close range" wow you really must suck, since i switched to TKA and made TKM like a week, ago i've killed over 50 imps while dying a total of 4 times in my PvP sessions.Thats actually a much better kill rate then i had previously as a MGF/MCH.
As to "Have you even been in a PvP battle? Are you a TKM? Howdo you fare against fully-buffed, novice pistoleers?" Well look above at my kill rate sincemakingTKMand you have your answer to that.BtwIfare well against any class, with the exception of master rifleman, 3 of my 4 deaths since going TKA have been at the hands of rifleman.
You ask about tatics, well this 1stone may not be considered a tatic, but get the full range of buffs (not just doctor but dancer and musician as well) and some good 80% plus composite.This will keep you alive for eons and will help you keep you alive when your trying to close range on an attacker.Secondly i find attacking groups preferable to just attacking a single person why you may ask?Because when your fighting a group they believe they have the advantage and no one bothers to try and kite you, they just try and gangbang you andby the time they realize their in a losing battle it's too late their 4 friends are in the cloning center and they are on the ground KD dizzy.All else fails use the burst run to close the gap, and like some have mentioned running away 1st to get them following you then hitting the burst run as you turn around usually works very well.Also keep a muon gold hotkeyed for emergenicies if yoru mind pool is taking a beating while in pvp.These tatics may not seem like much but judging by my kill rate they do me fine
While i have your attention Methrian could u please exlain this statement "ranged fighters being at a vast adavantage, even at close range."What exactly is the "vast adavantage" a ranged proff has at close range?I just don't see it.
Then you come up with this gem "Whyshould we be subject to a 30slunge timer "So now your saying TKA are so hard done by we need to have our KD timer removed so we can just stack it endlessly?We all know what it was like b4 the KD timer were put in, it was too much in PVE and PvP.You say you don't want TKA to be uber but then you make a statement like that where the result would indeed be the TKA being uber as heck.You contradict yourself sorry.
You keep talking about TKA being at a disadvantage and their limitations like this is a bad thing.But you tottaly neglect the fact that after mastering TKA you still have over 150 SP left to spend.Guess what that 150 SP can be spent on?It can be spent adressing any of these disadvantages/limitations.You have trouble being kited then why not pick upexplore 4 ormaster scoutso that you terrain nav is as good (and in the masterscout case) better then most other peoples.Or don't go the scout method at all and pick up a ranged proff and get those ranged KD's and bleeds you keep complaining about.Your template doesn't end at just getting TKM!! Spend all your SP wisely and you can be a killing machine.Don't spend your SP wisley and your not going to be as effective it's that simple.
You say "You're simplifying the facts for the sake of your own argument."lol no I'm not.But your post boils down pretty much this "i get kited too much.Ranged KD sucks.Ranged has all the advantages" ad nauseam, so tell me again whose over simplifying?
VikaLine wrote:
shoot stopping shot 1 time a second for 800 damage in pvp
i really want to know if you are a pistoleer. i am pistoleer AND tka, and all i can say is stopping shot sucks. if you ever have had it you would know how slow it is. i refuse to use it. you get better DPS in PvP using bodyShot2 than with stopping shot. no tka has the right to complain about pistoleers.