Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Healing wounds with meditate 4? shouldnt it be TKM?
If you make it a TKM only ability, I promise you it will be nerfed to hell. The only think that keeps it off the radar is that it isn't so exclusive that no one else can get it.
However I would support the idea of making it far less effective at Meditate 4 and far more effective at Master.
If people want to spend time training up the Med branch, More power too them.
I expect more in the future. 
You make the skill sound vastly more powerful than it is. A novice medic/novice entertainer with a couple of skill boxes in organic chem can do exactly the same thing. Another box or 2 (still fewer SP than med 4) and they can do it faster. The only unique skill in the meditate line allows us to get up from a mind incap. As far as I know, no other profession can do that.
Rafed wrote:
I dont have meditate 4, only at meditate 2, but powerboost is useful for creating wounds for entertainers.
OK, meditate is handy for an exploit to give entertainers non-stop healing - and we wonder why the ability to heal minddamage was removed from medic...
And'force of will' is a unique ability as well (already available in meditate 4). The increased rates of healing desease, poison and bleeding through the meditate line are also unique abilities.
Mostly pointless as this is after combat for the most part. Doctors can already do most of this. The only handy ability is being able to un-incap from mind damage but again you have an empty HAM bar so you're not exactly able to do anything but run away.
I would like that wound healing was available lower (I don't have the ability yet), but realistically it should be a master TKA ability, so those that have worked through all of the TKA get the ability, not just those that don't want touse the 30 points to get novice medic (plus 5 more for first aid) and entertainer, and buy wound packs.
I still don't see the sense of this. I can duplicate what the most important skill in the meditate line does for less skill points - and you want to make it cost even more for TKA? Are you sure you aren't a pikeman?
Now looking at itfrom skill point view, it costs smugglers and commando's less points (costs them 20 points) to get the ability from TKA rather than using the Novice medic andNovice Entertainer route. Plus they had also gained the ability to stop poison, disease and bleeding in the meditate line, be able to reserect them self from an incap. Which in itselfare all powerful skill, only limited by the fact you cannot use in the healing abilities in combat, unlike a doctor that can cure poison, disease and bleeding while in combat.
They had to invest the 29 SP in unarmed just like the rest of us. So?
I just think it should be a unique skill only available to the dedicated TKA, not to the players who take TKA purely for the meditate line, to suppliment there other skills.
sbjnyc wrote:
Rafed wrote:
Now looking at itfrom skill point view, it costs smugglers and commando's less points (costs them 20 points) to get the ability from TKA rather than using the Novice medic andNovice Entertainer route. Plus they had also gained the ability to stop poison, disease and bleeding in the meditate line, be able to reserect them self from an incap. Which in itselfare all powerful skill, only limited by the fact you cannot use in the healing abilities in combat, unlike a doctor that can cure poison, disease and bleeding while in combat.
They had to invest the 29 SP in unarmed just like the rest of us. So?
I am one of them have been working through TKA, smuggler and part of commando ( I like to try all the available skills I can), and I still don't think the ability to heal wounds by using a TKA skill line as opposed to the medic/entertainer line should be so easily attainable.
I just think it should be a unique skill only available to the dedicated TKA, not to the players who take TKA purely for the meditate line, to suppliment there other skills.
You make the skill sound vastly more powerful than it is. A novice medic/novice entertainer with a couple of skill boxes in organic chem can do exactly the same thing. Another box or 2 (still fewer SP than med 4) and they can do it faster. The only unique skill in the meditate line allows us to get up from a mind incap. As far as I know, no other profession can do that.
The ability does sound powerfull, but as I stated before I do not have the ability. At the moment I have to either run back to town and try and find a medic to heal me, or buy some woundpacks and have novice medic and novice scout skills so I can set up a camp to heal my wounds.
Still sounds like TKA mediate is the easier option, especially as I already had the unarmed tree for TKA.
Think our opinions will differ a lot on this, but as I do not have the ability to heal wounds in TKA,I cannot say how well it works anyways. Was just trying to give a reason why I would like to of seen it as a TKA master only skill.
But as most of the changes in game havehappened because people mix the powerfull skills from multiple skill lines, they all end up getting 'fixed' to improve the balance. If it is so easily attainable and easier than medic and entertainer, that are at a comparable level of healing.
Which one do you think will be changed to stop people using that skill, and make medics and entertainers more valuable? Then TKA may lose the unique (not any more) ability they have now.
Yes, I agree that the abilities in Meditate 4 aren't very powerful, but a rather a nice perk. What it comes down to is a nice little perk for devoted TKAs who made it that far up the branch. Frankly, I think that the wound healing abilities, and its slow rate of healingare totally appropriate and balanced at the master meditate level. It still won't heal BF, so we're still tethered to the cities and require the services of entertainers.
What's the big deal with someone working his way up in one of the TK branches? The only reason I can think of as to why no one would want this, is to keep TKA an elitist profession dominated by TKA Masters.
Rafed wrote:
sbjnyc wrote:
Rafed wrote:
Now looking at itfrom skill point view, it costs smugglers and commando's less points (costs them 20 points) to get the ability from TKA rather than using the Novice medic andNovice Entertainer route. Plus they had also gained the ability to stop poison, disease and bleeding in the meditate line, be able to reserect them self from an incap. Which in itselfare all powerful skill, only limited by the fact you cannot use in the healing abilities in combat, unlike a doctor that can cure poison, disease and bleeding while in combat.
They had to invest the 29 SP in unarmed just like the rest of us. So?
I am one of them have been working through TKA, smuggler and part of commando ( I like to try all the available skills I can), and I still don't think the ability to heal wounds by using a TKA skill line as opposed to the medic/entertainer line should be so easily attainable.
I just think it should be a unique skill only available to the dedicated TKA, not to the players who take TKA purely for the meditate line, to suppliment there other skills.
You make the skill sound vastly more powerful than it is. A novice medic/novice entertainer with a couple of skill boxes in organic chem can do exactly the same thing. Another box or 2 (still fewer SP than med 4) and they can do it faster. The only unique skill in the meditate line allows us to get up from a mind incap. As far as I know, no other profession can do that.
The ability does sound powerfull, but as I stated before I do not have the ability. At the moment I have to either run back to town and try and find a medic to heal me, or buy some woundpacks and have novice medic and novice scout skills so I can set up a camp to heal my wounds.
Still sounds like TKA mediate is the easier option, especially as I already had the unarmed tree for TKA.
Think our opinions will differ a lot on this, but as I do not have the ability to heal wounds in TKA,I cannot say how well it works anyways. Was just trying to give a reason why I would like to of seen it as a TKA master only skill.
But as most of the changes in game havehappened because people mix the powerfull skills from multiple skill lines, they all end up getting 'fixed' to improve the balance. If it is so easily attainable and easier than medic and entertainer, that are at a comparable level of healing.
Which one do you think will be changed to stop people using that skill, and make medics and entertainers more valuable? Then TKA may lose the unique (not any more) ability they have now.
Udi_C wrote:
id be pretty pissed if i had to wait for master to use meditate to heal wounds
Most whoare going for TKA, always say do meditate line last, so you would get master TKA when you get meditate 4.
But it won't change, their are too many dabblers of skills in this game, which makes some proffesions even more powerful and then everyone then gets toned down. So the only ones who really get effected by the 'fixes' are the ones who want to master just a couple ofproffesionsfully.
I would even of liked to of seen the meditation (meditate value) spread over all of the TKA skill trees, this would stop dabblers going for just the TKA healing ability, but again it will not happen.
But from the posts I have made 90% of the replies are against making changes to benefit Masters. I don't think if you just dabble in a skill tree you should get the same advantage as someone who is dedicated to that skill tree.
A master has a substantially better meditation ability than a so-called "dabbler".
But, ...
This is not a flame, but I'm curious ...
(1) What are the kinds of abilities do you think "dabblers" should have? Isn't the point of the meditate line to focus your mind and heal wounds? As you progress up the meditate line, the healing of wounds should, rightfully so, become more powerful. It's no cakewalk to get to Meditate 4. Don't you think the people who slaved away deserve to have increased meditate capabilities?
(2) EVERYONE dabbles. The way the skill system is setup, you can master to elite professions and have a few skillpoints leftover. Wherever those extra skillpoints are used, are in places that you would consider "dabbling". Now, unless you're so disciplined as to stop obtaining skillboxes after mastering two professions, you're dabbling too. I'm curious as to which disciplines you're dabbling in. All the arguments you're making with TKAcan be applied by the masters of your dabbling profession. Do you really think people should stop obtaining skillboxes mastering two professions and then stopping, leaving their extra skillpoints unused?
Rafed wrote:
But from the posts I have made 90% of the replies are against making changes to benefit Masters. I don't think if you just dabble in a skill tree you should get the same advantage as someone who is dedicated to that skill tree.
just to answer your 2 questions. But this is just my opinion same as the rest of my posts. And I have not reached meditation 4 or Master TKA yet. So my opinion is from someone who this would effect at the moment as well.
#1
As on meditate I think that there should be a boost to the wound healing (if it stays at master meditate) in all of the master skill boxes (as in current value divided across all 4 master level boxes), plus an additional boost at master as it is. This would give those in the Full TKA tree a bigger benefit than those just dabbling in the meditate line. The actual skill to heal wounds would remain in master meditate.
#2
I think the biggest problem and imbalances are caused by every one being able to dabble in multiple secondary level skills. Which makes the more specialized and powerfull skills able to take multiple other powerfull skills for their best features only.
What I would of liked to of seen is a maximum points usage in two secondary tier skills only, you can have as many of the starter skills as you want or need.
This would then make the skills of players more required for grouping rather than everyone is a 'jack of all trades'. Additionally a lot of theplayers would not end up being as overpowered as they are now, due to being able to take the best lines out of multiple secondary skill trees.
As I said this is how I think the skills could be balanced and is just my opinion, it won't happen as it would be all a redesign of how the game was developed.
Rafed, you seem to make more of a case for wound healing to be lower in the med line than at master. If you compare the wounds healing at master meditate (49 SP) and novice medic who can make all wound packs (20 SP)plus novice entertainer to heal mind wounds (15 SP), I think meditate is underpowered and the wound healing should be moved down. That clearly won't happen. I think fixing the existing med skills and making them useful would be a better change.
Especially since I got master meditate last nigh. Only 30k more combat experience to go - anyone got a good CDEF pistol? 
Rafed wrote:
I think it should also be a TKM only ability.
For those saying it would be 'nerfed if it was a TKM skill' I have to askwhy ?
It takes 20 skill points in TKA to get to meditation 4 only. Plus an additional 29 skill points if you do not have unarmed or any brawler skill previously.
It takes 15 skill points to get Novice medic. Then all you need is a medical droid or a scout camp. A lot have scout for the terrain negotiation already.
Which makes 'novice medic' more of an option for healing wounds, plus you can heal others and use stimpacks on yourself and others during combat.
Only real advantage of meditation line over novice is the stop bleeding, poison and disease skills. But again for an extra 5 skill points in novice medic, you can get the stop bleeding skill (first aid)that you can use while in combat. All of the meditate healing features have to be used out of combat, while you are meditating.
So that is my reasoning whythe healing wound skill should only be at TKM. There is already an alternative method for healing wounds, that could cost less skill points to get.
One aspect I like about the game is the fact that you can dabble in whatever suits your desires. Hence, everyplayer is unique, like all the visual options we get when we create a character, and stat migration. Skills are earned. It's crazy, but I'm working for Meditation4, and that's it. I'm also working on Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler too, but because I solo way more than I group, the meditative branch will help me when I'm in the lonliness of Lok, and need a break to heal up before I move on. I'm also a novice medic and can heal wounds that way, but I prefer the Meditative portion.
I say keep it at lvl 4. I'm all for diversity.
sbjnyc wrote:
Rafed, you seem to make more of a case for wound healing to be lower in the med line than at master. If you compare the wounds healing at master meditate (49 SP) and novice medic who can make all wound packs (20 SP)plus novice entertainer to heal mind wounds (15 SP), I think meditate is underpowered and the wound healing should be moved down. That clearly won't happen. I think fixing the existing med skills and making them useful would be a better change.
Especially since I got master meditate last nigh. Only 30k more combat experience to go - anyone got a good CDEF pistol?
The way I see it is that as meditate can heal mind wounds (from what I read), that is what makes it very powerful, that is why only a dedicated TKA (master) should have access to this unique ability. As usual didnt make it clear on my reasoning.
I was playing around with commando, seem to get lots of XP with those weapons. For some reason I get more XP using the commando weapons than a pistol or even unamarmed. For instance I get 1 point on a creature unarmed, get 600 with commando weapons, and about 300 with pistol.
I use the commando weapons for blowing up lairs now, get 200 xp (20 combat) unarmed or 1.5k xp heavy weapons xp (combat 150). Seems strange why it is this way, would of though heavy weapons gave less XP.