Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Commandos more Effective at Melle than TKAs??!!!
oh and i dont think the dmg they do is all the high, what im talking about is about 10% of their total dmg needs to be nerfed, and eliminate the wounds from their dots, thats it.
if they get to keep dots, then TKs should petition to do 100 wounds every hit to a player. see how long they keep that in live game.
partly right now if your unbuffed and using nothing but a weapon and running around, it should be 2.5 shot and dead, and a TKM 4 shot 4.5 and dead.
That is because with shield generators buffs and spices and food your going to be a much better dmg absorber. oh and ofcourse armor, somthing wookies cant use 51% absorb, and wookies absorb natualy 0%, now neat.
man i can waste commandos and with minimal crappy armor too, only armor i wear is some bracers and an ubese undershirt. you give me 3 seconds ... ill have them on their back and dead in 2.
jiub
teras kasi master
Valkari-TKM wrote:
im going to have to again call the comando TKM full of CRAP yet again. last time i checked i am a TK master and pay for this game the same as everyone else. I am a wookie and dont get to have armor. so your theory to stop comandos has holes.
comandos out perform me 1vs1 and that is wrong plan and simple. Frankly im suprised you even go TK at all if you really do have comando. you should know as much as everyone else, that in close quarters Comando> TKM and you knwo this is true dont you.
the fact is comandos need to be lowered and droped down a peg or two, thems just the facts. all this horse **edit** about tactics is pissing me off. i play with better tactics then probably 99% of the random morons in this game, and i get out guned at my advantage with somone spaming a button who even laughs and jokes to their other comando friends how over powered they are.
stop defending the class because its not your fault, seriously the devs are to blame, lets flame them instead.
I debated whether or not to even respond to this, because I can't tell if you're serious or just trying to troll. Assuming the former I'll respond.
First of all, you're the one who chose to play a wookiee. You can't decide to play a race that can't wear armor, and then complain about not being able to wear armor. I would not advise trying to PvP without armor. If you see youself PvPing long-term, I'd re-roll.
As to commandos out-performing you 1 v 1, I'll address this separately for PvP and PvE.
PvE:In certain situations, a Master commando will do more damage/time than a Master TKA. These situations are limited to when the Commando is able to stack burn dots on a very large target or when commandos burn through their charged weapons.
There is about a 10 second cool down between flame thrower specials. Let's say a commando gets a FS2 off for 6000 points of damage. That's 600 damage per second, plus something like a 2000 point burn (I think that number is right) that also goes off every 10 seconds or so. These numbers may be off just a bit, but that's the general time frame. Over the course of 10 seconds then, the commando will have done 8000 points of damage for a total of 800 damage per second, most of which is AP0. As a TKM, I can double that after accounting for AP1 VKs. Additionally, As a TKA I don't have the 10 second down time that freezes me up between specials.
If the commando is able to stack all 4 burn dots (FS1, FS2, FC1, FC2), then the burn rate gets close to 6000 every 10 secs or so, add that to FS2s and you get about 12K every 10 secs. That's getting really good, and the burn ignores armor and resists (for some strange reason). Also, a commando can burn and run, which is a serious advantage in some situations. Furthermore, commando damage is front loaded, meaning it comes at the begining with a long delay. This means you can kill many creatures outright before they can attack. However, commandos have no state change abilities. No intimidate, lunge, dizzy, blind, KD, stun etc. The proper use of state changes can be a huge help in PvP.
For the VAST majority of tougher targets, TKA>Commando up close, if for no other reason than the fact that commandos take 2.5x damage from melee attacks. Additionally, it's rare that you'll get to stack all 4 commando dots before either you or your target dies, so the TKM dmg/sec is going to be superior. Finally, commandos can't target specific pools, putting them at a further disadvantage.
So, up close, commandos take 2.5 normal damage, while TKAs take about 1/2 damage. Furthermore, in almost every situation, TKAs do more dmg/sec than commandos.
PvP: I'm not going to address the whole ranged/vs melee issue here because that's larger than just TKA/Commnado. However, I will address your statement that at close range commando>TKA.
Your problem is that you can't wear armor. Without armor and/or doctor buffs a FS2 is quite likely to kill you in 1 shot. This is a problem with your species not with your class. You decided to take the extra skill points and sacrafice the armor. I'm surprised you're able to PvP at all without a decent set of armor. You should not expect to stand unarmored and unbuffed and survive a heavy weapons hit.
Most TKAs will have good success against commandos. In a PvP situation, a TKA will do 2.5x normal damage to a commando as commandos get the rifle damage penalty, a huge advantage in the fast-paced world of PvP.
As a commando/TKA, I almost never use my FT against other commandos. All of the high-level PvPers are in full composite, so the FS2 won't kill them. Most of them are doctor buffed as well, so it won't even really hurt them that badly. I take their FS2 in stride, and proceede to KD2/head hit for a quick win. Then it's off to find a near-by puddle to out the flames, unless they miss, which happens more often than it should.
I'm sorry that you can't wear armor, but you brought that on yourself. Wookiees are in trouble for high-end PvP, no doubt about it, but don't blame that on TKA, and don't blame it on commandos.
Some martial arts are the product of martial arts that were practiced while wearing armor. For example: Jiujitsu, Aiki-Jutsu, Aikido etc..... and the ones I mentioned are only japanese.
This arts were developed to strike in the places where armor could not protect efectively. Such as in the preasure points and joints. In major battles practitioners of martial arts did use armor; they were protecting themselves from ranged weapons as well as swords, lances, pikes, staff's etc......
Just because you dont see martial arts practitioners nowdays using armor it does not mean martial arts never used or requieredany.
So Yes I think that TKA should use some armor as to recieve some protection from ranged attacs. What the melee clases need is to have lower encumbraces while wearing the aforementioned.
If you ae going to jump into a battlefield i suggest some armor to protect yourself.
I have Mastered both TKA and Commando at separte times and can tell you with 100% certainty that you , Xeonus, don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.
Until you get your facts straight by mastering both professions yourself, do us all a favor and s t f u.
you can't justify a class by simply saying "wear armor" that is silly to say the least.
armor is an extra benifit, and should be held seperatly to this discussion. ya true i can't wear armor, but that should not matter, the comparison should still hold true with one person in no armor vs one person with no armor
TKM in no armor vs a master comando in no armor.
I ask you who has the advantage? if you seriously think TKM does at close quarter range as it is now, then we disaggree, and disaggree on a large scale.
and i keep seeing armor become more and more of a crutch for people in this game, as its becoming even better and more effective, wich only lowers the value of any and all wookie class's.
do you think in the future if this game still is active that better armor will be available? it would be stupid to asume otherwise. Were does that leave the wookie? progressivly getting worse over time, is were it leaves it.
I have no move that will 1 shot anyone, i rely on KD and the extra dmg as they are knocked down to inflict my dmg and wins. you talk about blind and then this and that, you CAN only do that type of stuff wearing armor, or getting Bone armor with kimo attachments to it. comando dmg is melee dmg right now, so my 57% absorb takes effect because im a tera kasi master. Once thats ranged, i'll sure as hell get 1 shoted from then on out.
the comparison should be a class that has 3m range in no armor with stanard weapons compared to a comando in no armor with a standard flame thrower comapred to the next guy, at close quarter fighting.
They have the advantage of range and utility from range, i do not, thus it makes sense I do more dmg then they do up close. is that true now?
your points seem valid on the surface, but im simply saying THEY ARE NOT relevent to this disscussion.
Valkari-TKM wrote:
you can't justify a class by simply saying "wear armor" that is silly to say the least.
armor is an extra benifit, and should be held seperatly to this discussion. ya true i can't wear armor, but that should not matter, the comparison should still hold true with one person in no armor vs one person with no armor
TKM in no armor vs a master comando in no armor.
I ask you who has the advantage? if you seriously think TKM does at close quarter range as it is now, then we disaggree, and disaggree on a large scale.
and i keep seeing armor become more and more of a crutch for people in this game, as its becoming even better and more effective, wich only lowers the value of any and all wookie class's.
do you think in the future if this game still is active that better armor will be available? it would be stupid to asume otherwise. Were does that leave the wookie? progressivly getting worse over time, is were it leaves it.
I have no move that will 1 shot anyone, i rely on KD and the extra dmg as they are knocked down to inflict my dmg and wins. you talk about blind and then this and that, you CAN only do that type of stuff wearing armor, or getting Bone armor with kimo attachments to it. comando dmg is melee dmg right now, so my 57% absorb takes effect because im a tera kasi master. Once thats ranged, i'll sure as hell get 1 shoted from then on out.
the comparison should be a class that has 3m range in no armor with stanard weapons compared to a comando in no armor with a standard flame thrower comapred to the next guy, at close quarter fighting.
They have the advantage of range and utility from range, i do not, thus it makes sense I do more dmg then they do up close. is that true now?
your points seem valid on the surface, but im simply saying THEY ARE NOT relevent to this disscussion.
TKA in no armor VS Commando in no armor = Advantage Commando
TKA in armor VS Commando in armor = Advantage TKA
Conclusion: Wear armor.
Why on earth should it not matter that you can't wear armor?
The first half of your post is still complaining about how wookiees can't wear armor. I'm sorry, but that's irrelevant to the balance of power between TKA and commando. The FT is an extremely powerful weapon with a simple counter - armor. Wookiees are left out and that's what's causing you so much grief.
Armor is no more a crutch than a VK. No more a crutch than an Kryat enhanced, powered up, damage sliced pistol. It's using the tools the game gives you to be effective. Yes, I expect armor to get better and better. I expect to see full suits of 70% Composite, and after the change, it'll be stronger against electricity, not weaker. I expect it to be a total waste of time to try to PvP without armor. The same way it's a waste of time to PvP with a cdef pistol.
And yes! TKMs do more damage up close than master commandos. I've already said this. If you disagree, please post numbers indicating why.
I'm assuming you meant that you can't style in armor. I use TKA specials in armor all the time. I buff with Tat sunburns and Muon gold. I also pay a Master Doctor to buff all my physical stats. The buffs are up to 2000 points each and last 2.5 hours. I can easily get my Str and Stamina in the high 3000 range. Soon entertainers will be able to double your mind pool and secondary mind stats.I''lbe able to style all day long in whatever armor I like.
About having no move that will 1 shot, that's true, butKD2 comes pretty close. After that, it's just a matter of execution, armored opponent or not.
There is no problem you're having that would not be solved with armor. You have a racial penalty that you don't like, and you're taking it out on commandos. To a small extent, I feel your pain. I can't wear gloves or boots, and every now and then a hit will slip by for full damage. But I chose to be a trando. I get the good, I gotta take the bad. So do you. Once again, don't blame commandos.
i dont blame comandos, i blame the developers for making a broken game pvp system. The comando is just an example.
i do not buy that to solve a balance issue, you need to go out and buy a set of 60%+ composite. i dont see why you think thats not stupid. thats like saying go out and find 45-200 unsliced knucklers to even yourself out to be able to do more dmg then a comando with a POS flamer.
you are testing things that are irelivent. if he has no armor and i have no armor, then he is still better, now you say if he has armor and i have no armor that i am better. if we both have 60% composite on that means i take less dmg and im able to do things like Blind, and thats how your are justifying that statment, and if i get buffs then i can use more specials with effects. you are simply saying that comando rellys on speed of skill to win, but thats what a TKM relys on, finesse is one thing, but you are limited at what you can do at
3meters
and a 30 second KD timer and 30 second lunge timer.
So the trade off of me being able to blind him, and he being able to run me around a little to get me to not hit him, and use the timers to his advangate at Best negate themselfs, wich brings us to 60% increae to absorb, and he had the upper hand before, and still does.
I have 57 unarmed toughness and he is doing melee dmg, DID YOU NOT READ they are changing that to range? so now im losing 57 absorb to that comando, who had the upper hand in the first insstance and now the uper hand in the second instance.
final outcume is: Comando > TKM
and thats not race specific, thats pretending i could war armor.
now plop on the fact that im a wookie, and as you say my choice, then its even a bigger larger scale of defeat on my part.
That guy might have been buffed, and he might have taken some Muon Gold to get his mind up higher.
Ive dueled a Master Commando. I dueld him 100% unarmed and he barely touched me. I let him pull his MIGHTY Flamethrower and it took him 4 minutes to even hit me with the damned thing.
That flamethrower is the biggest joke ive ever seen. It misses more times than a bounty hunter's LLC, its pathetic.
Armor? No thanks. HAM costs for me as a trandoshan mean that ill incap myself due to mind loss before my enemy will. I can tank with armor quite effectively without vk's and no specials... but what fun is that?
The flame thrower is a front loaded weapon. It is like the halberd from ultima online. If you just nerf the damage it does because you got killed by one then it will be useless. IF you are using a fast flame thrower and you have flamethrower IV you will ONLY have around a 8 second delay after using a special during which you can do nothing except run.
Armor is a valid point in this discussion because the flame thrower in swg in its current state is designed to kill people with little to no armor. Against people using good armor, the flamethrower will be much less effective (the fire dot is the only thing that even makes it useful against people in armor).
I surprised you are not whining about the llc too. The llc has ap1, much faster firing speed (which means less delay) for only slightly less damage. It is also electrical damage which is resistedmuch less common than heat damage.
Valkari-TKM wrote:
i dont blame comandos, i blame the developers for making a broken game pvp system. The comando is just an example.
i do not buy that to solve a balance issue, you need to go out and buy a set of 60%+ composite. i dont see why you think thats not stupid. thats like saying go out and find 45-200 unsliced knucklers to even yourself out to be able to do more dmg then a comando with a POS flamer.
Response: You don't needa set of 60% +. A Set of totally average 40% will reduce FT damage by 70%. It's not a class balance issue, it's just a matter of finding a decent armorsmith. Why do you think that's stupid (besides the fact that wookiees can't wear armor)?
you are testing things that are irelivent. if he has no armor and i have no armor, then he is still better, now you say if he has armor and i have no armor that i am better. if we both have 60% composite on that means i take less dmg and im able to do things like Blind, and thats how your are justifying that statment, and if i get buffs then i can use more specials with effects. you are simply saying that comando rellys on speed of skill to win, but thats what a TKM relys on, finesse is one thing, but you are limited at what you can do at
Response: I can't make sense out of that paragraph. The truth is that as long as the TKA has armor, he has an advantage at close range.
3meters
and a 30 second KD timer and 30 second lunge timer.
Response: A 30 second timer hardly matters when your opponent is dizzy. And for heaven's sake, take off your VKs for your KD2. Furthermore, since you're willing to include the fact that commando damage is changing (which I brought up in my first post on this thread BTW), youshould linclude the combat dev's statement that they'll be upping all melee range to 12m.
So the trade off of me being able to blind him, and he being able to run me around a little to get me to not hit him, and use the timers to his advangate at Best negate themselfs, wich brings us to 60% increae to absorb, and he had the upper hand before, and still does.
Response: blind is not a good example. KD2 is an awesome skill. He won't be able to run around, he won't be able to even stand up. Besides, I'm not defending kiting here. With the number of skill points commando takes above TKA, you can get yourself 0/4/4/4 pistoleer to deal with that. Remember he as to be within 16m to use a special. The vast majority of players lag too badly to time it exactly. If he can get a special off, you should be able to get within 8m for a KD2. Once He's KD'd and dizzy, he's yours.
I have 57 unarmed toughness and he is doing melee dmg, DID YOU NOT READ they are changing that to range? so now im losing 57 absorb to that comando, who had the upper hand in the first insstance and now the uper hand in the second instance.
Response: I'm the one that brought the damage type change up in the first place. See my first post on this thread. He only has the upper hand in the first place if you're not in armor.
final outcume is: Comando > TKM
and thats not race specific, thats pretending i could war armor.
Response: It's just not true. Look around, TKAs on this very post are talking about how easily they kill commandos.
now plop on the fact that im a wookie, and as you say my choice, then its even a bigger larger scale of defeat on my part.
Response: I agree. Wookiees get the shaft against heavy weapons.