Tailor Archive
Thread: Clothing decay
Holo, if players hating stuff disappearing from decay in beta, is even only PART of why the patch did what it did today, then WHY the response to the correspondent issues, about how devs thought we needed it too and it was a high priority to have decay in . . .. Why did they say that if you all already thought everybody would hate it ie as in beta, i mean it's totally conflicting. I know, that not everyone has the same point of view, and alot of people don't think the same on things but on something this drastic, to have two such contradictory views from SOE is kinda . . .well none of the bad terms I was just thinking of fit, so perhaps some further xplanation of why such two different views? I can see that there might be some explanation, can't see what tho (or I wouldn't need it explained lol).
Iree Siar
Chilastra
Siar Iree
TC
Holocron wrote:
Raea wrote:
Just because it hasn't worked since beta doesn't mean it should be removed rather than fixed!
You misunderstand me, I think... It's not that it doesn't work. It's that players hated it during beta. You'd log in and find that some of your inventory was just gone. You'd check your bank and find that some of that stuff was gone. You'd visit your house, and find that some of the furniture was gone... you get the idea. It was time-based decay.
We don't have usage-based decay on many things because there's no real "usage" of them. We could theoretically implement something like a time-based decay only when being worn, or something, but that covers only clothing and leaves out all the other types of items that suffer from the same problem (furniture needs decay just as badly as clothes do, for example).
I agree that the death solution isn't a comprehensive one. We may end up having to do specific solutions for every item type in the end.
Time based decay IS horrid. It's also a kick in the chops for the casual player. It needed to go - and it needed to go badly.
Useage decay is a totally different story - players are used to that, and it makes sense. They even grudgingly accept it as long as it's within reasonable bounds. I still haven't forgotten all the axes that fell apart in my hands after chopping down only 15 trees in UO. Decay at that rate didn't make people find a tinker - it made people BECOME tinkers if they had an ongoing need for axes.
I'm of two minds on the architect problem. Durable goods like factories, homes and furniture we are paying upkeep on. Since I'm paying upkeep - I pretty much expect them not to poof. That however leaves architects in a peculiar bind (and one reason I didn't pick that as a class to play).
For them, I recommend developing lines that make sense to decay or consumables or possibly services such as refreshing homes for folks, their product does not suit itself well to the decay process. Perhaps another money pool could be established in structures where architects could be paid a fee for periodically doing maintainance work.
1) As a player, I would only insure 2 or 3 things if this were implemented. My gun, and any expensive article of clothing like a grand ball gown. As it currently stands with insurance, these things aren't expensive to insure and that would keep them in relatively good shape. This could be an issue since if players do this, the master tailor items would lessen in demand as they never really expire if you are carefull.
2) There needs to be a way so that when an Item reaches 0 durability and becomes useless that we still have a way of showing it to the crafter (tailor etc.) so that we can say, "Here. Make me something exactly like this please."
Lorelli wrote:
decay on clothing and furniture will destroy your classes... most ppl myself included will just not buy fun things like furniture and clothes anymore
Pardon me if I don't shed a tear, you're probably running around in looted goods anyway. Yes it's a generalization but it's based on the poor attitude you've shown in your post.
Now we hear that it [decay] was never really coming because people in beta didn't like it.
That's the misunderstanding. What was taken out was a relic, and obsolete piece of code that was not used anymore. What is not coming back is decay AS IT WAS IN BETA. I wasn't in beta so I can't say if this is bad or good, but I can say this change doesNOT preclude the possibility that decay will be implemented in another fashion. In fact, Holo has already stated in this thread that there is the intention ofimplementing decay in another fashion, it just isn't nailed down yet. It may not happen as fast as we all like, but apparently it is still an issue the devs are working on.
It was probably a bad idea to say in the patch notes that the attribute "decayRate" was removed. From an end-user point of view, that's an unnecessary piece of information;no one outside thedev team knows the source code well enough for that bit of info to mean anything.It would have been enough to say that obsolete or unused code was removed from schematics, and no one would have noticed the difference (and that's not bad, because like I said earlier this doesn't keep them from implementing decay later). Instead, the information wasmisconstruedto mean that all decay is gone forever. And that's the misunderstanding.
"decay on clothing and furniture will destroy your classes... most ppl myself included will just not buy fun things like furniture and clothes anymore"
Ill call your bluff and raise you $20.
That is just a silly argument. The same could be said of Weaponcrafters and Armorcrafters if they had not started with decay. "I wont fight with armor on" or "I wont spend $20k on one gun when it is going to decay."
Yet you see people doing it all the time.
The fact is that maybe you wont buy furniture, clothes or houses but some people need Harvesters, clothing and other things in the classes and those people will more than make up for whatever people decide they no longer need "fun" things.
Now please come up with a better argument for why decay isnt needed or at least dont troll these boards.
Holocron,
This was the worst possible solution you guys could have came up with.
Most entertainers don't fight at all, they are not going into combat and their items wont decay.
Only wookies use cloth while in combat, the other maybe has some with them in their bags.
You asked for our input on this, most tailors seemed to be for a slow time based decay rate, such as a month for an item, you all never replied to our replies.. and did the oposit to what we want.
I'm master tailor and I doubt I will be for very long unless you guys start to communicate with us
instead of pulling stunts such as this, congrats you guys just ruined the tailor profession.
I hope you are proud of yourselfs.
-Lyzi, soon ex master tailor eclipse 
I am strongly opposed to clothing decay rate. I buy clothes constantly as I change my look and funds allow, so I would be irritated if I have to pay hard earned money to maintain my house, my weapons, and now my clothes since the developers continue to seek ways to reduce the income of non merchant professions by nerfing soloable missions. Now that my income has reduced 72% (I did the math) since a recent Lokian Nerf, I am looking for ways to cut down my cost to maintain my character, not for how to increase it. When Insurance is finally implimented full time, I'm so screwed! Suddenly having to pay 90,000 cr so I can keep my stuff is now lt a viable option for me...I'm not an artisan.
Any benefit that could be gained for a tailor with clothes having a decay rate, can easily be obtained in other more efficient ways without adding stress to the economy. I know you business folk want to make money, but you get none from me if I...ipso facto...have none.
Holocron
I am sorry but nope your ideas are not worth even coding its not want we want as tailors. You only have to think about what you said to see how silly it is. Combat classes are the only people likely to be effected by your rules but sadly they are more likely to be wear armour anyway.
Also who says people mind the item just disappearing you forgot that guns and armour work this way and it is far more important to people when they disappear. Really how disapointed is anyone going to be to lose a coat compared to a gun via decay.
Come onHolocron have some sense here we all know their is only one way to get the clothes market going and that is a time based decay.
UncleJay wrote:
LOL. Tailors want clothing decay? I paid 10k each for several "suits" and if they decayed,.. I promise I wont replace them. I will just run around in my underwear like everyone else will do. There is no reasion to have decay on non esential "decorative items". If they decay, most people will just choose not to buy them. Period.
That's not true, but that's beside the point. Everyone seems to forget that although bonuses may (or may not depending on who you talk to) be borked now - they won't always be. Believe me - if those +75 med outfits actually WORK - they'll be used.
Everything in the 'useable' category should have some rate of decay.
Timebased will work fine on clothing as long as the timer only runs WHEN EQUIPPED. The old beta timebased decay was a clock running all the time, in the bazaar - on vendors - in your closet, and it was on everything. THAT is what didn't make sense and got folks so upset, not when they used an item - but something supposedly in storage just disintigrating.
I agree.. it would be bad to have it just "disappear" like that. But aren't there other solutions that are similar? Such as, don't make it disappear.. just make it un-equipable? That way they can show the item to the Tailor and get a duplicate.
I agree.. decay on it's own is not a perfect solution.. I was there in beta... I know all about the decay 
. Your initial proposal here though still lacks the ability to stimulate player economy. Yes.. insurance is a great money sink.. but I don't get any of it ! The end result is that I significantly increase my costs (they were low anticipating decay being "fixed".. or returned rather) and players pay insurance fees. In the end.. the poor player who just wants a pair of pants is forced to pay alot of the pants and alot for insurance. Granted in the long run he would pay more to me for decay... but he doesn't know that .. it's easier to have someone pay a little often than alot all at once.
I will accept the no decay on a few conditions:
1) Experimentation in some form comes back (I like being able to distingush my products. A Master tailor SHOULD be able to make a higher quality item than a Novice Tailor.. and not just color/sockets). If you want.. put sockets or some other function on experimentation.. like how much decay's when you die uninsured.
2) Fix experimentation for sub-components. These sub-components affect the success and quality of Armorsmiths, Architects, and Tailors and should not be subject to the no-experimentation decision.
3) Some form of GUARENTEED customer return mechanism. Either this needs to be in the form of a piece of clothing altering itself or becoming unusable over time.. something to bring a customer back to replace clothes. I have to do it in real life.. that's part of what stimulates the real world clothing industry.. it seems to make sense that something like that should bring customers back (since clothes automatically "fit" you.. and clothes won't decay... I'm not sure what to suggest here).
Holo,
duh, we know there has been no clothing decay, that is not even at issue. If there is a misconception it is on your end. What I personally have issue with is the patch notes that were sent out, and the fact that you guys took the trouble to remove a pretty significant bit of functionality in the crafting of clothing (even if it was non-functional). You guys could have put that effort instead into actually implementing decay in clothing rather than messing with the GUI. What you guys did sends a very strong message to us about your commitment (or lack thereof) of dealing with this vital issue.
As far as your proposed solution, personally I'd find that solution acceptable if and only if it were applied across the board. In other words no decay in armor, weapons, medical supplies, or food unless someone is incapped, then all of a sudden, as you suggest, stuff decays (makes no sense at all to me,but to me this is a fairness issue and nothing else). Otherwise this remains unfair to tailors as we (along with architects) have the only crafting classes where we craft items that are everlasting and non-consumable.
I don't understand your reluctance to do this in the first place though. you guys made a big deal about house object limits and the alarming rate at which people are stockpiling resources and items. How about helping that problem by adding decay and killing two birds with one stone?