Swordsman Archive

Thread: How would you make swordsman a better damage dealer?

Ravanger
Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:29 pm
#53


I am a swordsman and I do not believe that any of the issues presented can't be countered by things already put in the game.


1. Weaponsmiths can experiment SAC down


2. Food+ Spice +Buffs can take care of your action issues even further.


This is why I say it's by design. I never said anything about DPS, cause I know that at master, it doesn't mean jack to me, thebalance betweenmax damage and low SAC do.






If they experiment the SAC down then the DPS suffers, the base SAC would have to be lowered for it to make a difference really. Although to tell you honestly i'm happy, i don't like how long it takes for action to regen but with proper food i kill them before it matters. But if the SAC were lowered more then i'd be very happy


As for fencers getting better weapons, that is BS that they are better, i want a good RoTW sword with 300 base DPS and 1k+ max damage.... and it HAS to be a sword



Message Edited by Ravanger on 06-10-200506:31 PM

Message Edited by Ravanger on 06-01-2005 06:31 PM



mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac mauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriacmauriac
AdaTerCogar
Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:19 pm
#54
We need STRONGER Swords, not hammers! Better dmg dealing weapons, with better specials, Armour break is GREAT used with power move and advanced crit and berserker, berserker is not nearly as good as it once was as I remember from TKM pre cu days, berserker should do more dmg and take away defense bonuses. I like the MPike/Mswords with novice TKA-XXX3 and Fencer x4x4 template, using my hammer, or N-K Executioner sword for master swordsman. but i do find some 1 handed swords do better dmg, this isnt rite, 1 hand vs 2 hand, 2 hand= double stregth going to it, 1 hand= finesse and speed, which should be less dmg and slightly faster. 2 handed should be slightly slower with double the dmg of a single handed weapon.



AdaTer'Co'Gar:RIP NOV 27, 2005 : Lehria:RIP NOV 12, 2005
BOSS
MASTER SWORDSMAN [ MASTER PIKEMAN
MASTER SHIPWRIGHT " MASTER ARTISAN
aREBEL ACE PILOT a
ACCOUNTS CLOSED
diff-edge
Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:50 am
#55

I have recently been in a group that killed necrosis 3 times. And i found out that Melee was only good for helping the ranged ppls to get down to necrosis. Once in there you cant hit him but 2-3 times before your dead and that is with full buffs and food and pixy.


Even with the spider on the way down I had to sit down and rest after every battle becasue if 2 spiders came in I would not have enough action to help take them both out and all i would be doing was warcry and taunt. Until the ranged and others killed them.



We are a group that have been demoted to body guards for the ranged players.


I just started the FS in phase one. I had to kill a group of sith. about 4-5. I cant do it. They will all agro and kill me.



One ranged guy can take them all out one by one. I just waited for him to kill them all then would continue with the quest. At best i can take on 2 and survive with no health and action left.


It is getting depressing that the only effective tank of any sort is the jedi. I can out hit a jedi by far but either i can only hit 4-5 times and my action is gone or the thing is dead becasue i have to wait so long between hits. Ranged cant hit like i do but they hit 2 to one of mine and action stays up much better than mine . Tell you the truth I have no idea how the devs will fix the melee prof. but some effective weapons would be a start. Maybe add elemental damage to more of our weapons.





If I win an Auction.... Please drop my stuff of on the vendor at

-6812 -3872 insurgo naboo
velocity-x
Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:16 am
#56

Ravanger wrote:

I am a swordsman and I do not believe that any of the issues presented can't be countered by things already put in the game.

1. Weaponsmiths can experiment SAC down

2. Food+ Spice +Buffs can take care of your action issues even further.

This is why I say it's by design. I never said anything about DPS, cause I know that at master, it doesn't mean jack to me, thebalance betweenmax damage and low SAC do.


If they experiment the SAC down then the DPS suffers, the base SAC would have to be lowered for it to make a difference really. Although to tell you honestly i'm happy, i don't like how long it takes for action to regen but with proper food i kill them before it matters. But if the SAC were lowered more then i'd be very happy

As for fencers getting better weapons, that is BS that they are better, i want a good RoTW sword with 300 base DPS and 1k+ max damage.... and it HAS to be a sword

Message Edited by Ravanger on 06-10-200506:31 PM

Message Edited by Ravanger on 06-01-2005 06:31 PM




Fine, use a SAC Pup. 500 uses, 30% less SAC.

Next?



Morbious Nemes



-Scar-
Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:19 pm
#57
Give us an area attack,and speed up our attack's (not much but we are a little slow for being a damage dealing profesion).These have all been said before but I do believe this is what Swordsman is lacking.The area attack should be more of a blast effect,ie the farther away the less damage.And only the target recieve's the full effect and damage of the attack.




INQ <NAV>
Home of the Legendary JSF Horde
DarkBShadow
Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:26 pm
#58

-Scar- wrote:
Give us an area attack,and speed up our attack's (not much but we are a little slow for being a damage dealing profesion).These have all been said before but I do believe this is what Swordsman is lacking.The area attack should be more of a blast effect,ie the farther away the less damage.And only the target recieve's the full effect and damage of the attack.





forget about Area attacks... for one They Suk... And Too we will never get one any way...

and our attacks dont need to be speed up that will not help our DPS any. What the problem is is our SAC on our Weapons is kinda too High ATM and needs to get looked at...



[Dark-B Shadow[
Master Swordman Forever ~ Pve wh0r3
my other sig is a Corovette.
who wants to touch me...i said who wants to friggin touch me.
Chu-Gon Dar Cube Combinations Glowing Items guide
Dark-b Comics(updated 9/1/06)

Dark-b Shadow(lvl 50 Smuggler/Master Freelance Pilot Valcyn)

-Scar-
Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:27 pm
#59

I was in the same frame of mind about action cost's,now after working through the issuie's I hadaction cost'sare not as big of problem for me.

What food's do you use and what are the stat's on your weapon's?

I really don't put much emphesis on DPS,max damage and SAC are the defining stat's of a weapon in my view.

I really feel if we had an effective area attack this would set swordsman apart from the other profesion's.




INQ <NAV>
Home of the Legendary JSF Horde
DigitalSpider
Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:38 am
#60
DPS= nothing
You should be worrying about Dmg and SAC over dps.

that said I think Swordsman Weapons in general need an upgrade on dmg. there is not way that a fencer weapon like you get on the trails should out dmg a scythe.
Ryuukon
Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:02 pm
#61




velocity-x wrote:




Ravanger wrote:



I am a swordsman and I do not believe that any of the issues presented can't be countered by things already put in the game.


1. Weaponsmiths can experiment SAC down


2. Food+ Spice +Buffs can take care of your action issues even further.


This is why I say it's by design. I never said anything about DPS, cause I know that at master, it doesn't mean jack to me, thebalance betweenmax damage and low SAC do.






If they experiment the SAC down then the DPS suffers, the base SAC would have to be lowered for it to make a difference really. Although to tell you honestly i'm happy, i don't like how long it takes for action to regen but with proper food i kill them before it matters. But if the SAC were lowered more then i'd be very happy


As for fencers getting better weapons, that is BS that they are better, i want a good RoTW sword with 300 base DPS and 1k+ max damage.... and it HAS to be a sword



Message Edited by Ravanger on 06-10-200506:31 PM


Message Edited by Ravanger on 06-01-2005 06:31 PM





Fine, use a SAC Pup. 500 uses, 30% less SAC.

Next?




And in the mean time fencers still have a higher damage weapon with lower SAC costs than anything we have, and can either further lower the SAC costs of their weapons or increase the damage with a pup because they have that choice, we wouldn't.


You don't get it man. You say you're a swordsman yet you think there is nothing wrong with our weapons. Go look at the Powerhammer thread on this board, then look at the Blade of Nyenthi'Oris and tell me there ain't nothing wrong with that picture.


That blade is about easy to get, anybody could get one in 20 mins if that. Those powerhammers you're looking at are converted from PRE-CU made from top end materials and Acklay bones. Good luck getting the bones in 20 mins now. And don't even think about comparing current POST-CU power hammers (completely and totally post CU, including the cores) with that Blade. There is NO comparison. Powerhammers suck. Nothing else to it.


Next?



Ryuujin
Teras Kasi Artist - Swordsman - Ace Rebel Pilot
Master Shipwright - Master Commando - Master Smuggler
"All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
D4rthReven
Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:02 pm
#62

Ryuukon wrote:

velocity-x wrote:

Ravanger wrote:

I am a swordsman and I do not believe that any of the issues presented can't be countered by things already put in the game.

1. Weaponsmiths can experiment SAC down

2. Food + Spice + Buffs can take care of your action issues even further.

This is why I say it's by design. I never said anything about DPS, cause I know that at master, it doesn't mean jack to me, the balance between max damage and low SAC do.


If they experiment the SAC down then the DPS suffers, the base SAC would have to be lowered for it to make a difference really. Although to tell you honestly i'm happy, i don't like how long it takes for action to regen but with proper food i kill them before it matters. But if the SAC were lowered more then i'd be very happy

As for fencers getting better weapons, that is BS that they are better, i want a good RoTW sword with 300 base DPS and 1k+ max damage.... and it HAS to be a sword

Message Edited by Ravanger on 06-10-200506:31 PM

Message Edited by Ravanger on 06-01-2005 06:31 PM




Fine, use a SAC Pup. 500 uses, 30% less SAC.

Next?


And in the mean time fencers still have a higher damage weapon with lower SAC costs than anything we have, and can either further lower the SAC costs of their weapons or increase the damage with a pup because they have that choice, we wouldn't.

You don't get it man. You say you're a swordsman yet you think there is nothing wrong with our weapons. Go look at the Powerhammer thread on this board, then look at the Blade of Nyenthi'Oris and tell me there ain't nothing wrong with that picture.

That blade is about easy to get, anybody could get one in 20 mins if that. Those powerhammers you're looking at are converted from PRE-CU made from top end materials and Acklay bones. Good luck getting the bones in 20 mins now. And don't even think about comparing current POST-CU power hammers (completely and totally post CU, including the cores) with that Blade. There is NO comparison. Powerhammers suck. Nothing else to it.

Next?




Have you fought a fencer we still outdamage the hell out of them even if the fencer is using swordsmen specials



Flagg...

has challenged you to a duel
Ryuukon
Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:09 pm
#63




D4rthReven wrote:

Have you fought a fencer we still outdamage the hell out of them even if the fencer is using swordsmen specials




As a matter of fact I have. But comparing damage in a PVP fight is useless since there are too many variables. COB, Innate armor, high kin armor, various character templates, etc.


I've also fought beside many fencers. There are a few in my guild. And they all use the Blade of Nyenthi'Oris. And they all outdamage me, regardless of what weapon I use, and regardless of what level they are. There's a lvl 61 Fencer/CH in my guild who outdamages me routinely. Allow me to explain....


My hammer

2.89 speed (slow, but that's fine, swordsman should be slow)

448 - 1013 damage (lower than a Blade of Nyenthi'Oris)

SAC 104


Now if I slap a 23% SAC pup on it (the highest I've been able to find yet), that brings my hammer down to 79 SAC, which is workable. But the Fencer/CH also uses the same pups, so he's still got a lower SAC. In the end he still hits harder, and has more action to continue to hit harder for longer. Now explain to me... what exactly is the purpose of the 5 rating a swordsman has? We aren't supposed to be 'close' to the damage of fencer or pikemen. We are supposed to be better. Swordman gives up alot for that 5 damage rating. We have no states except armor break (which every melee prof gets a lower version of), we have no CC, we have no snares, we have no AE,we have nothing but straight up single target damage. Yet the other melee profs have us beat on that.


Another thing that I wish people would understand is that the majority of 'good' hammers you see coming out lately are made with PRE-CU CORES!!!! All pre-CU weapon components are superior in every way to post-CU components. It's fact. Ask any weaponsmith. When those cores are gone, that's it. The power hammer is going to hit the bottom of the pile real fast. Another hammer I'm going to show here, made by one of the best weaponsmiths on Bria, Dxsquat.


Speed 2.55 (pretty good)

Damage 508 - 1020 (again the Nyenthi'Oris is better)

SAC 120 (25 pts higher than Nyenthi'Oris)


And this is pretty much the best you'll see on Bria that is made post-CU, atleast until we can see what the Acklay bones are like post-CU (haven't heard of a kill yet with 10+ elite kwi's at the entrance to the caves). Dxsquat knows what he's doing, and uses the best materials the server has to offer (his prices reflect that). And, as I said before (I'm gonna make this sink in here guys), these hammers were made WITH PRE-CU CORES.


PRE-CU CORES!!!! LIMITED SUPPLY!!!!!! NEVER MADE AGAIN!!!!!


Sinking in yet? I hope so. Because once those cores are gone, all you swordsmen who say we are fine are going to realize we're not. Unless of course you are one of the select few who had a pre-CU Acklay hammer convert nicely and slapped an ADK on it. The rest of us are going to have to shell out 10's of millions for weapons like that, just to compete with the damage output of a fencer, a profession who has a lower damage rating than we do, and is using a weapon that is pretty much a dime a dozen this far after ROTW release.



Ryuujin
Teras Kasi Artist - Swordsman - Ace Rebel Pilot
Master Shipwright - Master Commando - Master Smuggler
"All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
velocity-x
Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:22 am
#64




Fine, use a SAC Pup. 500 uses, 30% less SAC.

Next?




And in the mean time fencers still have a higher damage weapon with lower SAC costs than anything we have, and can either further lower the SAC costs of their weapons or increase the damage with a pup because they have that choice, we wouldn't.


You don't get it man. You say you're a swordsman yet you think there is nothing wrong with our weapons. Go look at the Powerhammer thread on this board, then look at the Blade of Nyenthi'Oris and tell me there ain't nothing wrong with that picture.


That blade is about easy to get, anybody could get one in 20 mins if that. Those powerhammers you're looking at are converted from PRE-CU made from top end materials and Acklay bones. Good luck getting the bones in 20 mins now. And don't even think about comparing current POST-CU power hammers (completely and totally post CU, including the cores) with that Blade. There is NO comparison. Powerhammers suck. Nothing else to it.


Next?




You think you're arguing for the Swordsman profession when really you're arguing against other professions. There's a big difference, and one will get results where the other is meaningless.


I happen to have a Blade of Nyenthi'oris and yes, great damage, low SAC. But once I PUP my Post-CU hammer and take my food/drink, there's no real difference, and the sword specials outdamage the fencer by far.


If you want to make an improvement to the swordsman profession, look at what's not working properly, not at what you want cause other professions get it.





Morbious Nemes



raider7734
Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:10 am
#65

Swordsspecial move multipliers are ok,speed is balanced, what else is there?


Weapons (duh)


If it wasn't such a PITAto get Acklay bones and if rancor teeth actually helped, you'd see more weapons being made with SAC experimented down, yet still having good damage.


Itshould be the #1 Swords issue to get melee weapons crafting fixed. The problem isthat Acklay bones and rancor teeth replace the core, not add their stats to it. Because these 'enhancements'are missing some stats that are present on weaponsmith-made cores, you can end up with aworse weapon than anunenhanced one.(When was the last time you heard of krayt tissue making a gun worse?)It's just wrong and broken.


The #2 problem is thatthe 2H quest weps from Kashyyyk all seem to have substandard dps and in general do not compare well to others...and whoever thought that was a good idea needs to be hit on the head with a powerhammer.


So someone needs to get the courage to gripe very loudly about melee weapons crafting, anything else is barking up the wrong tree.


I know we just had a 'weapons balance' as part of the CU and it would be nice to think everything was fixed & working as intended, but dammit... sometimes they don't get things right. Just look at Commandos, another 5 damage ratedprofession being held back by crap weapons.




----------
IGN Kye • vendor wp -1444, -3847 Naboo
"Persistence is synthetic Luck"
Page 5 of 8
Previous Next