Swordsman Archive

A good, sliced 2H Curved hits the 1 second speed cap at Advanced Sword techniques. After that the other weapons are better to use. At master the Power Hammer is the best weapon, if you can get one sliced for speed.

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Silwo wrote:

Well, last night I bought a slew of two handed cleavers and powerhammers, the best our server has seen so far. Had them sliced and the best out of the lot resulted in..

powerhammer

94 - 421 @ 4.3 speed (33% slice in speed)

125 - 559 @ 6.0 speed (34% slice in damage)

cleaver

134 - 295 @ 3.3 speed (32% slice in damage)

102 - 224 @ 2.4 speed (27% slice in speed)

2h curved sword (78 - 322 @ 2.6 speed, another is 58 - 241 @ 1.9 speed).

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Just to offer a little more depth to this discussion:

At Master 2H you have a 75% decrease in melee speed (not sure where you guys are getting 70, but it's 75 points of 2H melee speed).

So, here's the DPS of your weapons at Master:

PH1: 94-421 @ 1.1 (rounded up from 1.075). DPS= 234

PH2: 125-559 @ 1.5. DPS= 228

Cleaver1: 134-295 @ 1 (0.825 hits speed cap). DPS= 214.5.

Cleaver2: 102-224 @ 1 (0.6 hits speed cap). DPS= 163.

Curved1: 78-322 @ 1 (0.65). DPS= 200.

Curved2: 58-241 @ 1 (0.475) DPS= 149.5.

Just looking at the numbers, I think maybe you should rethink your conclusions.

Blah

Example; Power Hammer 94 - 421 @ 4.3 speed - .7 in speed = 3.6 final speed.

TheCrazyAZNRocker

Sorry but you're wrong. I swing a 4.3 sliced Power Hammer every 2 seconds.

Also, there's that +70 again. WTH are people getting +70? It's +75 at master.

well will be playing with the powerhammer and the curved to see what I like better.. one night of testing isn't enough..

anyhow here are the ham costs:

Powerhammer:

107 H ---28 A --- 16 M = 151 cost (-40 -40 -40 range)

Curved Sword

36 H --- 67 A --- 40 M = 143 cost (+7, +7, +7 range)

Cleaver

56 H --- 52 A --- 34 M = 142 cost (-4, -10, -4 range)

@TheCrazyAZNRock: here a quote from actual T21 discussion, Holocron calculate Rifle speed in it.

-------by Holo:-----------------------
T21 certification is gained at novice rifleman. The rifle speed modifiers are 30%. This gives the t21 (when the cert is gained), a modified speed of 2.31. This gives us a final dps value 125..
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Novice Rifleman get +30 rifle speed, and he use it as 30% speed enchance, not 0.3 more spd.
Nagarok is right.

Actually, with Master Swordsman doing a 70% reduction in swing time (someone else said this, I'm just going with it), 4.0 seconds becomes 1.2 seconds, so DPS is 214.

Sorry, but the 2h curved sword is far outmatched by the power hammer in any situation where you have good buffs as a master heavy swordsman. Mind becomes the limiting factor here, not health or action, and as specials are where the real damage is, the incredibly low mind HAM on the power hammers makes it anawesome weapon, as we can chain specials indefinitely almost. I rarely use my 2h curveds anymore, and these are weapons with the highest of slices.

/waves toDevla

~Aramyr of Starsider

Well i guess was my error the Two handed Speed at 70. It is 75 at Master.

Surely all the Skill mod work as %modifier (like "Medicine use" grant a +% healing bonus).

I'm up to all the guys that are using PH, cos is obvious (if u try a PH and 2HCurved) that as Master the Power Hammer will grant huge damage (i've hit in PvP for 1400dmg) and a good speed.

I don't want explore the Dps things, but i figure out from my game experience that the elite weapon have worst stats to be useless until reach master (prolly a dev choose).

P.s. Someone of 2handed curved can write down here if was able to cause dizzy w/ a ToHit3? Cos yesterday i've tested that PH causes dizzy even w/ ToHit3 --- depending by Weapon? Dunno yet i'll check that today ... but will be great if u'll try to explore that w/ me.

I find that when fighting humenoid mobs or pvp that the key to winning is the ability to lay down manuvers fast. A running player must be lunched and then postition lowered constandly to maintain melee range, Same with humenoid mobs, they must be lowered all the time to negate their melee attack against you. I have not reached powerhammer level yet, but with my sliced sword I can keep those tuskan captains prone for most of the fight, The few times they do get up cause I have a bad streak of misses (accuracy at my level is importand) they hit like a freight train.

The cap means nothing when moves have a speed modifier. If i'm just going to stand their and swing sure I can use a better weapon, but I never just do that, I ALWAYS USE STYLES. Especially for posture change styles, 2 hand curved is the best, keeps them on the ground because you hit so fast. I have mastered technniques and I get nowhere close to one second with doing moves the whole time. I think the main point of this thread is to try and get the dps / ham of the higher level weaposn adjusted to be more worthwhile then the lower weapons. The cap should not be figured in when calculating raw stats on a weapon, especially if you intend to do moves at all, the cap will have a lesser chance to be hit when doing the higher level moves.

Time modifiers on all high level moves for reference (all from swgcenter.com):

Area attack 3: 2.5
Head attack 3: 2.25
Hit 3: 2.5
Lunge 2: 2.5
Mind hit 2: 2
Spin attack 2: 2.5
Sweep 2: 2.5

Mind hit 2 with a 75% bonus is .5, so if you have a sword that is also faster than 2 you can break the cap. But anyway, you see my point, the moves add a significant amount of time on to your swing.

(I'm of course assuming these are straigh additions of speed, not some sort of multiplier)

I think the power hammer, our top level weapon should be significantly better to the weapons in the brawler tree, its the only weapon we get a cert for in swordsman, the differences between it and brawler weapons should be a lot more apparent. The fact that we are even having this conversation over and over again makes it apparent that the power hammer is not that much better. I'm not saying it should be ridiculously better, but its superiority should be visible enough to the user that you don't need to have a **edit** degree in mathematics to determine so.

Don't forget Master Brawler gives a +5 speed bonus, meaning a Master Swordsman w/Master Brawlercan get a total unbuffed bonus of +80 2-handed Speed.

I'm a little worried about the calculations used to get the speed reduction from this bonus, since it seems incorrect that we would always swing at 1 second if we had a 100 for 2-handed speed. Getting 100 2-handed speed is entirely possible too if you get a few good speed enhancements.

My next question is whether delay multipliers are placed on the 1 second cap, or on the actual speed?

i.e. 2HCS @ 0.6 with a move that delays by 2* - would that be a 0.6 * 2 = 1.2 seconds?

Or 0.6 => 1, then 1*2 = 2 seconds?

If the second case, the PH becomes even better.