Swordsman Archive

Thread: Swordsman = FOTM

antares_Kauri
Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:01 am
#27




Defconn wrote:
I notice you also interestingly make no mention of "Dodge", and CoB?


Not in that post, but here is a post I made with all the defense calculations for all 4 melee professions, including melee/ranged and block/counterattack/dodge.

antares
master pikeman



|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
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Syzygy-Gorath
Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:43 am
#28






Defconn wrote:
I would agree with "pretty good". The word "awesome" comes out in DarthCedric's post.

And we could argue till the cows come home. How about "counterattack"? Would that be a defensive stat or offensive? I notice you also interestingly make no mention of "Dodge", and CoB?

Ultimately, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Last I heard, Fencers still owned TKA's, and competent swordsmen were about at par. Speed capped Pikemen with good looted LVA's (who know how to use easily looted dot weapons to multi-dot the tkm) also own tkm's, and it's quite easy and cheap to cap the speed of a pikeman. (consider Eclipse's price of 1.4 mil credits for a +9 pike speed sea, compared to 14.5 mil for a 2H speed sea).

So, "pretty good" would imply an above-average. So why does everyone say TKM's are over-powered, if their defences are only "pretty good"?





For the same reason everyone was crying bloody murder about Bounty Hunters a while back—those BHs were Pistoleer/BHs, and these TKMs are no different. They've stacked their templates to make their primary profession look a whole lot more powerful than it really is, in the same way that a guildmate of mine is convinced Swordsman is a lot more powerful than it is because he can't hit me due to my secondary professions.



œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

gozarian
Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:40 am
#29

Um splitting rawl is the master box move for TKA. That is the name of unarmed hit 3. As for the 3-4k damage. The target was more than likely knocked down also. I may be slow as a master 2h swordsman, but if a target is knocked down. I can see 3-4k damage with hit 3 also. Maybe not as fast with out armor attachments, but the damage is still possible. That's just with the generic hit 3. In solo PvE. I would much rather target the mind pool. Again, if said target is knocked down. My head hit 3 could see as high as 5k+ with a power hammer.


However. Even at master heavy swordsman. There is disparity in DPS with TKA, and even Fencers vs no armor to light armored creatures. However if you buy speed tapes/armor attachments. You could swing just as fast and for more damage in many cases. So don't give up on it yet. At least not without fully exploring the posibilities of the profession.
Ka-oan
Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:20 am
#30

I've been a Swordsman for some time now on Chilastra. I've noticed a jump in profession population. I noticed it when the GeoCave came about: Vunerablities to Blast and actually being able to deal the damage in a timely mannor while doing it(the commando's RocketLauncher doesn't quite cut it). Once the loot craze goes on to the DeathWatch cave, I think the Swordsman population will drop.



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Defconn
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:00 pm
#31

I would agree with "pretty good". The word "awesome" comes out in DarthCedric's post.

And we could argue till the cows come home. How about "counterattack"? Would that be a defensive stat or offensive? I notice you also interestingly make no mention of "Dodge", and CoB?

Ultimately, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Last I heard, Fencers still owned TKA's, and competent swordsmen were about at par. Speed capped Pikemen with good looted LVA's (who know how to use easily looted dot weapons to multi-dot the tkm) also own tkm's, and it's quite easy and cheap to cap the speed of a pikeman. (consider Eclipse's price of 1.4 mil credits for a +9 pike speed sea, compared to 14.5 mil for a 2H speed sea).

So, "pretty good" would imply an above-average. So why does everyone say TKM's are over-powered, if their defences are only "pretty good"?



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comandobob
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:57 pm
#32

no there are alot of swordamn but most are just Holo grinding im swordman and my 2 other mates are we all pvp to gether.


But most on are server are Rifleman/CM are TKM they the fotm still






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DarthCedric
Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:33 pm
#33



gozarian wrote:
Um splitting rawl is the master box move for TKA. That is the name of unarmed hit 3.




Ah, the real answer I suspected all along. Thanks. Unless Stalker, the BH title for Investigation IV, has been changed to some other profession, the guy was exploiting in some way to be wearing that title and using TKM specials. Thought so.



Darqyeti
Master Chef
Master Pistoleer

UWSkeletor
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:02 pm
#34






DarthCedric wrote:





gozarian wrote:

Um splitting rawl is the master box move for TKA. That is the name of unarmed hit 3.






Ah, the real answer I suspected all along. Thanks. Unless Stalker, the BH title for Investigation IV, has been changed to some other profession, the guy was exploiting in some way to be wearing that title and using TKM specials. Thought so.




Well, it's not really an exploit as it is a bug. Try it yourself. Put up any title and logout. Then log back in, change the title to <no title> and logout. Log back in and you'll see you are stuck with the first title you had, it doesn't seem to let you log in with no title.


I haven't done it with a skill I've lost, but I'm sure the same thing happens if you have a title up when you log in, but you lose the skill for that title, for some reason it doesn't erase the title.





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lobster37
Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:31 pm
#35






DrPyroTechno wrote:
Every time I think some thing is fun and master it, it comes a FOTM and I just had fun with swordsmen





lol same here.. i dont even care if i've got the fotm temp anymore i just play what i want



Ataldo Ismosne c Chilastra c swordsman.fencer.brawler c [PS-SC]
Defconn
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:04 am
#36






antares_Kauri wrote:






Defconn wrote:
I notice you also interestingly make no mention of "Dodge", and CoB?




Not in that post, but here is a post I made with all the defense calculations for all 4 melee professions, including melee/ranged and block/counterattack/dodge.

antares
master pikeman




Long list of assumptions...but if I accept your assumptions, then your calculations more or less show what I just said. Fencer has the best defence, TKM and Swordsman roughly on par, and Pikemen at disadvantage (notice in my earlier post, I qualified by
using the words "competent" and "speed capped" with regards to pikemen). I did not check your math, as I trust that you would have checked it before posting.


Also, I am a bit puzzled by your calculation regarding TKA with defensive acuity. It implies that TKA has dodge, counterattack and block. I am not at all sure that these 3 stats feature in a TKA's template. Also, it is popular opinion...and I stress again, opinion, that defensive acuity in the TKA profession is broken already through 2 publishes. It has been /bugged, and the response being that the devs are looking into it. Whilst it is neither a "yes, it is functioning as it should", or "No, it is not working as we intended", it is nonetheless ambiguous, and hence, if you base your calculation on an ambiguous quality, it simply makes your conclusion....ambiguous.



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antares_Kauri
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:35 am
#37






Defconn wrote:


Long list of assumptions...but if I accept your assumptions, then your calculations more or less show what I just said. Fencer has the best defence, TKM and Swordsman roughly on par, and Pikemen at disadvantage (notice in my earlier post, I qualified by
using the words "competent" and "speed capped" with regards to pikemen). I did not check your math, as I trust that you would have checked it before posting.


Also, I am a bit puzzled by your calculation regarding TKA with defensive acuity. It implies that TKA has dodge, counterattack and block. I am not at all sure that these 3 stats feature in a TKA's template. Also, it is popular opinion...and I stress again, opinion, that defensive acuity in the TKA profession is broken already through 2 publishes. It has been /bugged, and the response being that the devs are looking into it. Whilst it is neither a "yes, it is functioning as it should", or "No, it is not working as we intended", it is nonetheless ambiguous, and hence, if you base your calculation on an ambiguous quality, it simply makes your conclusion....ambiguous.





Read it again. I have TWO sets of numbers there for TKA, one with defensive acuity working as an equal chance to block/counterattack/dodge, which is the only way it has been described to be intended to work, and one set of calculations for TKA without defensive acuity working at all. No ambiguity there at all, dude.


And for all my "assumptions" (only 3)...there are so many factors to consider, you have to normalize some. No one knows well the frequency of block/counterattack/dodge, but under CoB, most people would say they fire at roughly the same rate. So, I simply chose 50% to make things simple as a baseline, this does not tilt the numbers toward any one profession because it's all percentages. And assuming that the rest of the to-hit modifiers are the same is an easy one, I thought you would understand that. Imagine it's the same person firing from the same spot. Easy. And assuming that melee/ranged defenses do what they should isn't much of an assumption, it's more of a fact. Those were the only assumptions.


antares
master pikeman



|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
|combatUpgrade::alpha :: JTL::beta :: RotW::beta :: ToOW::beta|
SOE Producer Dallas Dickinson says:
"I mean, what is a pikeman and why is it something in the game?"
APEist_theReb
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:37 am
#38

swordsman fotm??



uh, guess i see what ya mean, lol. i dont care, ive been a master heavy swordsman since early august. not to many ppl older than me.


o and to the ppl complaining that tka was doing 3-5k dmg every second when u were doing 1-5k every 2 seconds, well tkas have all high end pve ruled off from them, since they only have ap 1 kinetic.


our pve boundaries are limitless, theirs is very restricted.





APEist

Rebel Soldier of VYRIS

If I had a penny for all the people I've damned,
I'd be a trillionaire, and btw, damn you.


+80 speed and I'll still kick your ass.

Swordsman Motto: We like our women like our enemies, hammered.

mottola2u
Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:29 am
#39

again - I love you guys. a few comments:


I guess I'm your classic defense stacker - I have the TK and fencer defenses and I will swear it makes HS easier - especially while leveling. things I notice with my template - fencer get hit the least, then TK, then HS. So I think acuity is doing something - beyond that, I can't tell you. (and I have no counterattack).


I love how I hear y'all vetch about kill steals. try being a fencer. (I have no offense in TK).


but you are dead on about HS being fun - fencer is kinda boring. sure it helps when leveling and when I get in over my head, but takes forever to kill something. I am migrating to HS for its offense, after I saw a HSM anilhilate a POI in seconds I thought I'd give it a try.



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