Swordsman Archive
Thread: The done turned SWG into EQ
Onari
Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:28 am
#27
JemyM wrote:I really cant see his point.Most of theese things he brings up are generic components in all rpg's out there, and he didnt even bother with the "Ranged profession = Ranger" comparision as comparing devastating energy pulserifles with wooden projectiles that have to be loaded 1 by 1 is kinda silly.Squad Leaders is a very unique and rare profession in SWG. They are not even close to Bards and Illusionists in how they work, and very rare.Clerics use "magic" to heal damage? No. Clerics use divine powers to enhance other people. Run into a hospital and point at everyone in a white robe and scream "CLERIC!!!", and im sure they can give you a white robe too. Divine powers and modern medicine is very different.Rifleman = Wizard/Warlock? Duh. Comparing the use of a supermodern weapon that can hurl out beams of concentrated energy, to the ability to control the energyfield around you is again extremely different.Sorry. But all this is like people that see Angels and Devils in the clouds. If you try hard enough you can create a mess out of anything.
It doesnt matter if someones using a rifle or a ball of magical energy if the end result is the same. Clerics use divine power while docs use stims, big deal its the same thing, someone gets healed.
Not a flame, I just think you missed the point and focused on graphical differences rather than the point which came across.
Onto the main point, I played DAoC for 2 years and as an Infiltrator it was extremly annoying finding a group, since they sucked in groups also it took forever to level in that game so if you got a good group you would have to stay online for as long as possible (within reason) since you never knew when the next good group would come along. Some professions will pretty much feel the same way and it will hurt many casual gamers who either don't have time and also anyone that can't play on peak times.
I really like the fact in SWG that when I want to gain exp all I need to do is get buffed which takes just a few mins then travel to a city to get the missions, then when you've finished playing you feel like you've gained something and it inspires you to continue playing. If you take 30 mins just to get a group then that group dies quickly, or some members decide to log off then you need to get a group again you will not be having fun and so whats the point in playing?
Im all for grouping and at first it was hard to adjust to being solo alot but I joined a small but good guild and so group quite often and have fun. Being forced to group to get decsent exp will cause many players to leave who in a way have been spoilt by getting fast exp for so long, and for that matter high end loot. I highly doubt that anyone will be able to solo any of the high end mobs once the CU hits, and that maybe is how it should be but then it should never have been possible, if you give a child a toy then take it away then he will cry, same thing in the game.
damocles88
Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:50 am
#28
I do think that the CU makes SWG look, feel and play very much like EQ2, but I don't think it is EQ-Star Wars Edition at all. I also don't think soe is doing this to cut down on overhead or make it easier for their other customers to play, if they are they are an assanine bunch of people who seriously underestimate their players.
No, I think they went with EQ2 style combat because EQ2 style is much more like the other, more popular, MMOGs on the market. The first thing out of my wife's mouth was, "That plays like City of Heroes". World of Warcraft has similar combat stylings. Yes, this combat upgrade is more like EQ2 than the other two, but I don't see this as capitolizing on anything other than what SOE knows...
I think SOE is putting in what they see as a more successful combat system based upon very standard MMOG elements. Then, over time, they will tweak those elements to make them more unique and "starwarsy".
And I don't think believe they are going to force grouping... and we don't KNOW they are going to do so until we've seen some higher end content. What people forget is that TC5 is nothing like a "live server". Think of constructs in the Matrix... its a testing construct to see if their codes and numbers are right. I doubt Level 7 Durnis will make it to live.
People despair of the beta testing process because they forget it is just that: a testing process. Give something to the developers and they (hopefully - it aint guaranteed) will give you something back.
I have always said the uniqueness of SWG was in its non-combat elements. And I despair at ever seeing another mmog with things like entertainer classes (which is the only thing my wife wants to play) until SWG is seen as something of a success. That won't happen till the design flaws of the old combat system are washed away. We're not talking bugs: we're talking design flaws. It's time for a new system, even if it is a little like EQ2.
And after playing on TC5 last night i was impressed with how smooth melee felt. I was less disassociated than with the old system. Can't wait till it hits live and I get to convert my master swordsman over to a....
...master swordsman.
Message Edited by damocles88 on 04-01-2005 09:52 AM
KaylBreinhar
Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:50 pm
#29
A theoretical question would be...
If the entire SWG playing community rose up and denied this "revamp" as it exists now (unless nothing short of a Divine miracle occurs in now...34 days...), would we be heard, or would a money-hungry Lucasarts order SOE to go forth as planned, popular opinion be damned?
If the entire SWG playing community rose up and denied this "revamp" as it exists now (unless nothing short of a Divine miracle occurs in now...34 days...), would we be heard, or would a money-hungry Lucasarts order SOE to go forth as planned, popular opinion be damned?
DarkBShadow
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:12 pm
#30
okay here is the thing. where does anyone see that you will not be able to solo any more?? All i heard is that we will not be able to solo High End Mobs Like NS elders. But i do believe i we will be able to take on low lvl NIght Sisters the 20k and below kind.
right now it is easier to lvl up on test center in a group because it is A. There are so many people fighting for XP and the person who does the most gets it. so people group up so they make sure they get it. and B. it is easier to kill things in a group. you take less damage in a group and it goes alot quicker. However if there were less people on test or more places to grind XP then you could almost definetly solo grind it. Also the fact that the XP system that is in play is getting changed because it is not working as intended so the grind of novice will become alot easier later.
also WE have NO idea what is going to happen with the High End game. This is because well We have no idea how it will be played. We have yet to see the armor that we will get to use or even how well we will be able to tank. hell we do not even know how well our weapons will handle.
however i do believe we will be still be able to take on Lower End High End mobs. But we will have to wait and see.
And the one thing that has made SWG unique to play is A. The crafting system. (it is the best i have ever seen in a Game like this) B. the fact that you can have 2 diffrent play styles instead of just one. so your not traped as just being the tank. or just being a healer but now you can be both a tank or a healer when ever you feel like being in a group. and C. you can always drop a part of the skills you have and be able to pick up new skills to mix and match your character. So if you get tired of being lets say a Doctor/Carbineer you can drop ether of them and go rifle/carb and so on. This right there makes SWG a unique game your not trapped just being on type of character. and your character has multi roles they can preform. and you can dabble in other professions to make your character even better.
let just all just wait and see what they do to the game.
right now it is easier to lvl up on test center in a group because it is A. There are so many people fighting for XP and the person who does the most gets it. so people group up so they make sure they get it. and B. it is easier to kill things in a group. you take less damage in a group and it goes alot quicker. However if there were less people on test or more places to grind XP then you could almost definetly solo grind it. Also the fact that the XP system that is in play is getting changed because it is not working as intended so the grind of novice will become alot easier later.
also WE have NO idea what is going to happen with the High End game. This is because well We have no idea how it will be played. We have yet to see the armor that we will get to use or even how well we will be able to tank. hell we do not even know how well our weapons will handle.
however i do believe we will be still be able to take on Lower End High End mobs. But we will have to wait and see.
And the one thing that has made SWG unique to play is A. The crafting system. (it is the best i have ever seen in a Game like this) B. the fact that you can have 2 diffrent play styles instead of just one. so your not traped as just being the tank. or just being a healer but now you can be both a tank or a healer when ever you feel like being in a group. and C. you can always drop a part of the skills you have and be able to pick up new skills to mix and match your character. So if you get tired of being lets say a Doctor/Carbineer you can drop ether of them and go rifle/carb and so on. This right there makes SWG a unique game your not trapped just being on type of character. and your character has multi roles they can preform. and you can dabble in other professions to make your character even better.
let just all just wait and see what they do to the game.
Master Swordman Forever ~ Pve wh0r3 
my other sig is a Corovette. 
Unreal7
Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:16 am
#31
This is what I'm thinking is gonna happenregardless if everysingle player said they don't want it. Or who knows SOE may be acting alone on this one.
KaylBreinhar wrote:
A theoretical question would be...
If the entire SWG playing community rose up and denied this "revamp" as it exists now (unless nothing short of a Divine miracle occurs in now...34 days...), would we be heard, or would a money-hungry Lucasarts order SOE to go forth as planned, popular opinion be damned?
chSoup
Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:13 pm
#32
I hate everyone im not here to baby sit other player to be in a Group but it sure looking like i will need to be in a group to have fun and That BS
KhaemirSarin
Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:00 pm
#33
wong-fei-hung wrote:
One of my favorite things about playing WoW and some other games was the fact that I couldn't just walk up to 10 NightSisters and kick their ass... I could take 2, maybe 3 if I was lucky, and even then, there's always a chance that you would die. It brought a lot more excitement to the game that just doesn't exist within SWG as it currently stands.
The above describes my current gaming experience. I can take 2, maybe 3 NS, but any more than that at a single time is pushing it. And elders, not a chance.
And though I solo most of my pve adventures, the second "M" comes into my game often enough. I have plenty of people I interact with on a regular basis. Crafters that I sell loot to/buy supplies from. And I'm always meeting someone new when they win one of my auctions.
I agree that certain creatures should never be soloable. The ubiquitously mentioned krayt being one of them (cept the juvie). Other, similarly sized creatures should also be on this list (gorax, kimo, etc.). But I feel that my character being a master of an elite combat profession should be able to go it alone against a sizable portion of the creature/npc's out there.
Expedience
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:53 am
#34
Kill every stinking Krayt and Elder you can now for it's going to be a long time before you ever see any high level loot again. I hope they change the loot tables. Right now the hardest part is not the killing, it's getting lucky on the loot. Sometimes I can go the entire 3.5 hour buff and loot nothing but junk. If i'me lucky I come back with a couple of decent things. If we divide that by 8 the people in the group that wewill berequired to have, well, you get the idea. So stock up while you can.
Leoflame
Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:59 pm
#35
I play on dial-up
Large groups=Lots of packet-loss/dial-up lag (typing somthing and having it come up 3 mintes later), so, with this whole group orientated thing, SOE has crushd' another innocent soul under there big stomping boots...Horay, what a freaking waste of 9 months of my nights.../wave
VolvoSsixtyTsix
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:18 pm
#36
So far max number of people in the group is 8. So IMO content will be adjusted to this group size. Group of 8 will be able to take out krayt/kimogila/battle droid if battle is fought right. As we all know if group of 10 does corvette mission and they are not coordinated they all die in the matter of minutes. CU will 'try' to make grouping intellegent which is very hard.
As MBH/MC/NoviceMedic I can kill every animal that can be killed by RL standards. Rancor = dinosaur (yeah I know ....but with heavy rifle/carabine you can take one down), elder snorbal = elephant...etc. I will die in the fight against Krayt/Kimogila/elder/SBD solo. So in a way there isa rational ballance in the game.
Swordman/jedi/rifleman on the other hand can take down extreme oponents with ease. Krayt dragon is 40 meters long, 15 meters tall, it has a bodyarmor that grows through its lifetime. How can a person with hammer kill this animal by banging hammer on its head ? How can 4 feet tall bothan kill this monster with a rifle ? Same applies to jedi ?
Game didn't need the complete overhaul.....90% of players around will admit it. All it needed is balance of proffessions that are superior to others.
CU story made us all keep our subscription and hoping that great miracle will happen and that game will be ballanced. But from my point of view SOE didn't do any research or any work to help improve the existing system, all they did is bring some shiny icons and new skins together with new system filled with new bugs and new imballance.
evil_SOCCERMOM
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:47 pm
#37
Unreal7 wrote:Well it appears that the communist nation SOE is starting up the censorship machine. 3 of my posts (Yes they were polite, I even mentioned that I actually like the fact that ranged will be better and I like the new icons/interface) regarding the CU were deleted. A few of my friends have had their negative feedback posts deleted as well. However, all the posts that are positive for the CU remain. This one isn't going to be so nice. I will state plainly, if the CU turns this MMO into annother game like Saga of Ryzom or WoW (havn't tried EQ or EQ2 before so dunno bout those). I will leave, I don't care what anyone thinks. I have already tested some things out on TC5 and I have to say for the most part, with a few exceptions, I'm highly disapointed. Mandantory grouping should not be shoved down the throats of the masses! I like to solo! I like to be the 'lone wolf' figure. Its my RP and my personal playstyle. I will give this a chance, but, if this turns out to be unfun for me the only button i'm gonna be clicking on is the button. I will go back and play WotMud again. (1) Its completely free (2) They get feedback from the players before implementing anything new (3) If players say it sucks then they change it untill the majority of the playerbase likes it.Oh yes as a sidenote just about to unlock jedi. Now alot of people think that jedi are SOEs way of keeping the subscriptions for a longer amount of time. Actually, I tend to agree with this. But, if this goes live like it is now they could give me 5 jedi and a free subscription for 2 years and i still would leave. Just my 2cents.
All right I know this has nothing to do with anything but Communism has nothing to do with censorship.
Decided to add that I was very glad to see that most people hoping for soloability drew the line at low level NS (rougly 20-25k HAM in current system) I was afriad this was another "I WANT TO KILL EVERYTHING STILL, DAMN IT!!!!" theards. For the most part I think a well built and properly played combat character should be able to solo the equivilent of a 25k HAM mob, 1 vs 1. I am also a big fan of increased grouping but, as someone pointed out above, if you make high level mobs no soloable (as I feel they should be, though not near immpossible *cough* Vette *cough*) you have to increase loot drops to make up for the fact that people are splitting loot.
Message Edited by evil_SOCCERMOM on 04-04-2005 09:55 PM
TimePalladin
Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:09 am
#38
whats funny is that the loot will probablly stay at the same drop rate.So either way u aint gettin sh*t
Kumakada
Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:53 pm
#39
It may indeed have Mulitplayer in the name Wong but that just means that more than one person can play the game. It does not intend that those people MUST play together. Look it up in the dictionary. Just because we mustPLAY together does not mean that we must play TOGETHER. Get it got it good. Grouping is all good but not everyone wants to do the same thing all the time. Get it thru your heads Devs, you ARE screwing up this game unless you make some majors changes to your changes.