CUEmu - Thread Posts

BadKarma777

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:11 am

#105

Meh...

Message Edited by BadKarma777 on 10-18-2005 02:00 PM

**I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick @ss... and I'm all outta bubblegum.**

xakia

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:17 am

#106

So basically the OP wants SL buffs for his Jedi and for it to be unaccessable to BHes.

Don't want a Bounty Hunter to be able to attack a Jedi whilethat BH isgrouped? Do you even put much thought into your post? Some of us use droids vs Jedi. Hell, Creature Hunters Bounter Hunters would love this feature, I'm sure.

I'm sorry bud but to make an entire profession useless against Jedi is completely insane. You're just going to have to deal with it. They've already toned down SL alot (which was needed) You don't need to piss and moan until its worthless again.

(+) CS:SWG(+) Step into my awp
Bounty Hunting since July 2003
"Jedi, you've ruined your ...no no that can't be right. SOE you've ruined your own lands! You'll not ruin mine!"

MTOSVEN

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:29 am

#107

Great posts by everyone!

I have a MBH Master rifleman, I carry around a 1343 max damage Trando Rifle.

If I can time it right, I can one hit incap CL80 players and Jedi....Squad Leader is not the problem lol. If your not wearing armor I have hit for over 3k damage with advanced sniper shot....and this is with out the new SL changes.

As for SL buffs working for BH and Jedi...whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Either they both can have them or neither of them can have them. Sides some players could roll play getting advice from their Squad Leader commanders before going out on the hunt. I personally only hunt imperials...so whos to say that I wouldnt get a debrieifing and cordination from a rebel Squad Leader before going out on a mission for the rebellion. Its all how you look at it.

Now....no one likes getting one shot, but for jedi....stay off the terminals...LOL (god dont ya hate that saying!!).

Now as for Jedi, I plan on being in as many MSL groups as I can, whos to say that a Squad Leader cant lead them as well. Smugglers give them spices, docs give buffs, chefs give foods, weapon smiths give weapons, Tailors give you B.E. clothes to help you in your battels, squad leaders give combat buffs in groups.

Svenson

SF-5

Rylarth

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:54 am

#108

ObsidianWrath wrote:

Rylarth wrote:

OP you say SL is intended to lead not to help bh etc. in a logical and realistic sense what would stop a bh from hiring someone who could help them take out their mark, what would stop a bh with skills(SL skills) from utilizing those skills to help him accomplish his goal and take out the mark.

I agree the one shot kill 5000 damage or whateverit wasis extreme and does need looked at but on the other hand I can see many uses for this kind of high damage in PVE and it seemsyour post and commentsare only going to lead to nerfage which would be a real shame.

Too many Jedi -BH have a job to do.

Okay, you were civil in voicing your questions, and I thank you for that. However, I do disagree with your points. The reasons why are fairly simple, in my opinion ... obviously, you may not agree with them.

For starters, the BH / Jedi system revolves around a 'solo' engagement. Bounty Hunters are supposed to enter into a one on one combat situation with their prey, in theory ... that's even the case of Bounty Hunter "Elite Marks," which are not supposed to be attackable by anyone but the Bounty Hunter. This obviously sets the stage for the interpretation that Bounty Hunter is meant to be a "loner" profession. Like the iconoclastic Bounty Hunter from the movies that the profession is based on (Boba Fett, of course), the concept of working with others is frowned upon by the very nature of this profession. Bounty Hunters are supposed to be sneaky **edit** who go out and shoot you in the back when you're not looking ... they are not the sort who roll up in force with friends to take down their prey.

In episode II fett has a shapeshifter drop a snake in amidalas/padme's room remember? so saying its purely solo and no outside help should be allowed is simply not true and simply not realistic, now how far doyou want to go by disallowing outside help.

I believe if a BH who is also a SL should be able to get the benifits of SL. Think of it this way a BH/RM can use any of the rifleman skills a BH/Doc can use any doc buffs/heals, a BH/CH can use his pets etc. How can you say that a BH is not to be allowed to use the SL skills that he has invested time and effort into aquiring spent 121 Skill points on just because you think this profession is more yours thanhisand he has no right to have it because you are on some kind of ego trip?

ShadowLightning

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:01 am

#109

/sign

I supported even your longer one on the other post

It needs to happen this way or the other way which I'm happy to live with but don't perfer is:

NONE of the SL skills work on himself... ever.

Then just let the SL follow around the Jedi ... or the SL follow around the BH and their effects help the fight. At least then the Squad Leader is living up to the meaning of the profession by helping someone ELSE.

Mastering or Dabbling in Squad Leader for personal gain is wrong ... PERIOD

Danirent
Master Doc/Master CM

Emma
Master SL/Master Doc

Rylarth

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:07 am

#110

ObsidianWrath wrote:

Rylarth wrote:

OP you say SL is intended to lead not to help bh etc. in a logical and realistic sense what would stop a bh from hiring someone who could help them take out their mark, what would stop a bh with skills(SL skills) from utilizing those skills to help him accomplish his goal and take out the mark.

I agree the one shot kill 5000 damage or whateverit wasis extreme and does need looked at but on the other hand I can see many uses for this kind of high damage in PVE and it seemsyour post and commentsare only going to lead to nerfage which would be a real shame.

Too many Jedi -BH have a job to do.

My concern has nothing to do with liking Jedi or disliking BH's. My argument is based upon the fact that I love my profession, Squad Leader, and I do not want to see it tainted by using it in a fashion that it was never intended to be used in. I consider BH/SL to be an exploit, through and through. Let's break it down to a real world example ... if Squad Leader / Bounty Hunters can "self-buff," what is happening? The Bounty Hunter "pulls himself aside to have a little pep talk with himself?"

"Hey, ME!" "Yeah, ME?" "Okay, ME! Here's what I'm gonna do! I'm gonna charge that hill and take that objective, ME! Obey MY orders, ME!" "Yes, ME!" ?

Doesn't make much sense, does it? There's no such thing as "leading" yourself in battle. Leadership benefits others around you ... not yourself. That's all I care about. I want Squad Leaders to be used the way they're *supposed* to be used, not trivialized into some little exploit profession that gets nerfed three months later because all the Jedi quit the game. I want to lead groups of players -- squads, and have fun in the game by bolstering their effectiveness and having them bestow their faith and trust in me. I consider Bounty Hunters exploiting my profession to be utterly shameful, because they are using it to become uber. They could care less about what the "purpose" of this profession is ... nor do they care how they insult legitimate Squad Leaders or threaten to trivialize our Profession.

It seems to me you do have an opinion on liking disliking, it seems to me you have some problem with BH.

I like this part, Yes thats exactly what a BH/SL would do, it makes sense (a military general who has lead great numbers into battle has learned many things about combat and can then use those things he has learned to lead himself)he would lead himself all the way talking to himself giving himself pep talks, have you never given yourself a pep talk when something seemed hard to accomplish? "Come on You can do this" or "Come on I can do this"

ShadowLightning

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:08 am

#111

Rylarth wrote:

I believe if a BH who is also a SL should be able to get the benifits of SL. Think of it this way a BH/RM can use any of the rifleman skills a BH/Doc can use any doc buffs/heals, a BH/CH can use his pets etc. How can you say that a BH is not to be allowed to use the SL skills that he has invested time and effort into aquiring spent 121 Skill points on just because you think this profession is more yours thanhisand he has no right to have it because you are on some kind of ego trip?

Yes... but those second professions you are picking are focused on Healing or Dealing Damage. Squad Leader is about enhancing a GROUP.

You would not take BH/Chef would you? Of course not... because Chef doesn't help the BH. Well, if the right thing is done you won't take SL because it will not help you. It isn't suppost to. SL is to help the GROUP. SL is to help everyone except yourself.

Mastering or Dabbling in SL for Personal Gain is wrong... PERIOD

1) BH must be Solo and SL must be grouped [Perfered]

or

2) No Squad Leader skill works on theSquad Leader themselves... EVER

Danirent
Master Doc/Master CM

Emma
Master SL/Master Doc

Rylarth

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:18 am

#112

ShadowLightning wrote:

You would not take BH/Chef would you? Of course not... because Chef doesn't help the BH. Well, if the right thing is done you won't take SL because it will not help you. It isn't suppost to. SL is to help the GROUP. SL is to help everyone except yourself.

I totally understand that, the point I tried to make in the post after that is that with the knowledge of how to lead you would be able to use that knowledge to help yourself, no?

I like your idea It sounds realistic, more realistic than the proposels of BH not being able to group or Jedi being able to have the buffs and BH not able to.

Edit: Spelling

Message Edited by Rylarth on 10-18-2005 06:32 PM

HarlequinMK19

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:10 am

#113

xakia wrote:

So basically the OP wants SL buffs for his Jedi and for it to be unaccessable to BHes.

Don't want a Bounty Hunter to be able to attack a Jedi whilethat BH isgrouped? Do you even put much thought into your post? Some of us use droids vs Jedi. Hell, Creature Hunters Bounter Hunters would love this feature, I'm sure.

I'm sorry bud but to make an entire profession useless against Jedi is completely insane. You're just going to have to deal with it. They've already toned down SL alot (which was needed) You don't need to piss and moan until its worthless again.

No, basically the OP doesn't even have a Jedi. Basically, she can't stand Jedi. Basically she doesn't want to see Squad Leader get re-nerfed because of bunch of uber-noob BH's decide to steal from an honorable profession so they can pwnz0r Jedi.

Andquite a fewBH's who use droids use them for exploit purposes...so that's a wonderful point you've made. Creature Handlers don't need their pets grouped.

I'm sorry bud, but try reading next time. kkthnxbye

-Aaron'shin De'wintres
"There is no art more beautiful and diverse than the art of death."

The fire, it knows me
I can walk through the blaze without a mark
Forever it owes me
The life I lost in the dark

HarlequinMK19

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:15 am

#114

Rylarth wrote:

ObsidianWrath wrote:

Rylarth wrote:

OP you say SL is intended to lead not to help bh etc. in a logical and realistic sense what would stop a bh from hiring someone who could help them take out their mark, what would stop a bh with skills(SL skills) from utilizing those skills to help him accomplish his goal and take out the mark.

I agree the one shot kill 5000 damage or whateverit wasis extreme and does need looked at but on the other hand I can see many uses for this kind of high damage in PVE and it seemsyour post and commentsare only going to lead to nerfage which would be a real shame.

Too many Jedi -BH have a job to do.

Okay, you were civil in voicing your questions, and I thank you for that. However, I do disagree with your points. The reasons why are fairly simple, in my opinion ... obviously, you may not agree with them.

For starters, the BH / Jedi system revolves around a 'solo' engagement. Bounty Hunters are supposed to enter into a one on one combat situation with their prey, in theory ... that's even the case of Bounty Hunter "Elite Marks," which are not supposed to be attackable by anyone but the Bounty Hunter. This obviously sets the stage for the interpretation that Bounty Hunter is meant to be a "loner" profession. Like the iconoclastic Bounty Hunter from the movies that the profession is based on (Boba Fett, of course), the concept of working with others is frowned upon by the very nature of this profession. Bounty Hunters are supposed to be sneaky **edit** who go out and shoot you in the back when you're not looking ... they are not the sort who roll up in force with friends to take down their prey.

In episode II fett has a shapeshifter drop a snake in amidalas/padme's room remember? so saying its purely solo and no outside help should be allowed is simply not true and simply not realistic, now how far doyou want to go by disallowing outside help.

I believe if a BH who is also a SL should be able to get the benifits of SL. Think of it this way a BH/RM can use any of the rifleman skills a BH/Doc can use any doc buffs/heals, a BH/CH can use his pets etc. How can you say that a BH is not to be allowed to use the SL skills that he has invested time and effort into aquiring spent 121 Skill points on just because you think this profession is more yours thanhisand he has no right to have it because you are on some kind of ego trip?

She's on an ego trip? Kinda similar to the one you're on, Rylarth.

And no, the problem here is not too many Jedi. It's too many noob-BH's getting their heads cleaved from their shoulders because they don't know how to fight.

-Aaron'shin De'wintres
"There is no art more beautiful and diverse than the art of death."

The fire, it knows me
I can walk through the blaze without a mark
Forever it owes me
The life I lost in the dark

RoundWallKing

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:37 pm

#115

SamousNemo wrote:
The biggest flaw I have with this proposal is that a Jedi could keep the bonuses of a SL, whereas a Bounty Hunter would lose them. Yes, I realize that a Bounty Hunter has the ability to choose his fights, but I'd rather not go back to the days of pre-CU "buff watching" whereas the only chance a hunter had was when his target was at 400 HAM

When the GTEF system was first removed, a BH or Jedi grouped with a SL was regarded as ungrouped as soon as combat was initiated. This prevented a single SL from constantly spamming the "form up" command to break any dizzy/KDs foran entire group of BH or Jedi. I'm not entirely sure how the current bounty TEF system works, but I know it's designed to promote 1v1 combat. I'd much rather see a situation in which SL buffs on both sides were removed as soon as combat is initiated.

If need be, I'd support the same being done with Doc buffs

Either way, a solution needs to be found. Yes, leaving SL buffs on both sides would allow either to group and receive the benefits of a SL. However, it would be much easier for 8 BH/SL hybrids to group/buff before their individual hunts than it would be for a Jedi/SL to group with 7 other SLs

Why should I have to drop my squad leader buffs just because you want to take my XP? Then to top it off you even hint at an idea of having my doc buffs drop when you /attack me. I know your the coro for BH's but thoes ideas are not fair to Jedi. My character should not lose doc or SL buffs Just so I can be your content. My game does not revolve around you.

Message Edited by RoundWallKing on 10-18-2005 03:46 AM

Playing WoW and loving every second of it!
Thankyou NGE for not making me want to play SWG!
O'etam Rendar ......RIP.....One of Sunrunner's true Jedi.
Oetam-Skullcrusher

Rylarth

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:04 pm

#116

I totally understand why and how the TEF works and no outside help is allowed once the TEF is active but... Not being able to be grouped? Jedi being allowed buffs while TEF is active but BH are not this is rediculous and imbalenced and again I will bring up a point others have brought up"THIS IS NOT ONLY ABH/SLISSUE" mostly any combat class with SL in their temp or with an SL friend is going to be over powered and imbalenced (From what I've heard)so at the end of the day stop making this all about BH and Jedi. If the GCW PVPers are gonna get these benifits then so should BH.

Luxora

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:16 pm

#117

Rylarth wrote:

so at the end of the day stop making this all about BH and Jedi. If the GCW PVPers are gonna get these benifits then so should BH.

Other threads are already discussing its effects in regular PvP. This thread is about BH and Jedi, as determined by the original poster. And if you'd been paying attention, there's a particular reason.

Want to know why? There's this word "squad" in the profession's name. Because (as my last post says) Squad Leader is not a "add this to your template and you become uber" profession for 1 person. It's a support role. You lead a squad, you sacrifice up to half your whole template to boost them and benefit them, NOT yourself. Squad Leader should not become the "shake and bake jedi-killer" addition to everybody's PvP template, and BH's will readily abuse these abilities if they can. Therefore, it's being discussed in this thread.

Luxora Zsanu

[Loving the NGE]

"See this double-bladed lightsaber? You have until both ends are lit to stop your childish bickering."

"I don't care if you wasted hours and hours playing this game. Alpha classes suck. I'd rather succeed being equal with everyone else because it means that I won, not that my hours and hours of wasted life won."

- Makenshi

Squad Leader Archive

Thread: MORE DEV ADVICE: Here we go again ... Fixing the BH / JEDI system.