Squad Leader Archive
Thread: REVAMP FOCUS: PvP and the BH / Jedi War
It is about time the Squad leader proff became a useful proffession, however saying that the only thing that concerns me is how easy it is to 1 shot incap a player. Something which i believe the combat upgrade set out to eliminate.
I carried out some testing with my Master Rifleman/Master Pistoleer with a master squad leader.
The squad leader buffed me with "Blaze of glory" and "High Yield", i then drank deut-pyro (+216 accuracy). My target was a fully templated jedi, using a damage capped advanced laser rifle puped to 696-1351 i went prone and hit with advanced sniper shot, this hit the target for a possible 8811 damage of which 4680 points of damage was absorbed by armour leaving the remaining 4131 point of damage to 1 hit incap
We then tried again with the jedi fully buffed, with FA active, i did forget to drink deut-pyro on this test, again hit with advanced sniper shot - it hit for a possible 6674, armour absorbed 4416, resulting damage 2258.
I do have a screenie of this but (1) dont know how to post it and (2) dont want to name the target.
im not BH i never was i like the way i help my group ! 
I carried out some testing with my Master Rifleman/Master Pistoleer with a master squad leader.
The squad leader buffed me with "Blaze of glory" and "High Yield", i then drank deut-pyro (+216 accuracy). My target was a fully templated jedi, using a damage capped advanced laser rifle puped to 696-1351 i went prone and hit with advanced sniper shot, this hit the target for a possible 8811 damage of which 4680 points of damage was absorbed by armour leaving the remaining 4131 point of damage to 1 hit incap
Thank you for the accurate description, this is way morehelpful thansome vague "i saw soooo much damage" postings which are lately flooding our forum.
I very much hope that the cryers and whilers turning up soon manage to recognize that these damage values are made with a combination of people and requires more skillpoints than a single player hasavailable. This means that the MBH comming for you will _not_ be able to use this combination of attacks on you while you sit there, look at the sky and wonder why you are marked for attack and have no idea of what could happen in the near future...
Otherwhise it would still be interesting to know, as Blaze of Glory has a random, was is a critical hit where you got those damage numbers or was it a regular attack?
Sylow wrote:
Could you please, in the unlikely case that this passage, unlike the rest of the whole posting, is actually based on _facts_ also tell us what attack he used? While it is possible to do that damage, it usually requires the Jedi to stand still, smile and wait for the impact.Also, in case this really happened, you would have gotten the attack spatial and the droid would have been attackable. And, alas, it might be that Jedi by now forgot, but when a BH fields a droid, blow the thing quickly. In the asumedly given case, it would have taken away the SLs option of using the "oh so overpowered" ability. (Yes, it's a +110% damage. But you loose a shot by applying it, which is a -100% damage. So, the gain averages out at +5% damage output. Sounds veeery mighty, right? Was already nerfed, just for the protocol...)Anyways, i am sorry, based on all the other _true and proven_ information you brought us, i dare to assume that this report also should be moved to the "fan fiction" area. Next time, take 5 minutes to read the board, learn the facts, then write your rambling.Message Edited by Sylow on 10-21-2005 01:10 PM
With pleasure. This BH used a sniper shot and hit me for nearly 3200 pts after mitigation. You mention the droid being attackable, which it was. Never denied that. You mention "blow the droid". Impossible given the extreme amount of damage and instant incap. You mention a second shot penalty. Irrelevent, again, due to the instant incap. Your formula of averaging the alpha shot and the subsequent shot as a "mighty" +5% is misleading. When you can instantly incap a player with a single, overwhelming shot, what difference does it make what your next and ONLY next shot's damage? You mention that this shot would only land if the player were standing still and smiling. This is just plain silly and unsubstantiated. There are dozens of documented incidences exactly the same as mine.
The rest of your post may infact be accurate with regard to the distance required to maintain a SL buff. However, in my personal testing, I maintained SL buffs with a SL well over 200m from me. So either I and my group was bugged (or quite possibly lagged) or it is YOUR information that is either inaccurate.
Finally, your personal attacks were unwarranted as I was responding to a post that solicited feedback. Referring to my character as a forum creeper and my post as "fan fiction" was uncalled for. You seem intelligent enough. if an information dissection was your goal, that is fine. You have your "spin", averages and theories. I have real time experience that documents what actually happened. Nevertheless, you attempt to discredit my post was at best, a point/counterpoint discussion. Had you left it at that, I would have at least respected your input. But you didn't. For some ego driven reason, you felt it not only appropriate, but necessary to prove your point through insults and character assasination. Rather sad tactic as I did say that I did NOT support nerfing SL skills. Alas, it is people like you that exacerbate and enflame tensions between professions until people actually DO cry nerf and all too often succeed. So my advise to you sir is, check your emotions at the keyboard, respond intelligently (as I know you are capable of), objectively and most importantly, with compassion. If not, you do EVERYONE a disservice.
Message Edited by Darka-ce on 10-23-2005 11:01 PM
ObsidianWrath wrote:
This is a repost from the other "monster thread," with a few moderate updations as a result of conversations that have taken place within that thread. I still firmly believe that this is the most elegant solution to this problem, for a multitude of reasons.
For starters, I am going to point back to our guiding purpose: to create a new, re-imagined image of the Squad Leader that is effective in Star Wars Galaxies. This profession is to be a leader of players, not NPC's. This profession is designed to augment a group of player characters for use in PVP and PVE, with most noteworthy examples being instances like GCW-oriented PVP and high-end PVE groups like DWB / Avatar Platform, et cetera. I don't think anyone would dispute the fact that this is the "goal" we had in mind when we set out to work with the Devs to create a revamp for Squad Leader.Now, enter the current problem that we are focusing with. Lately there has been a huge problem arising on the Jedi forums regarding BH/SL hybrids coming after Jedi and "pwning" them, for lack of a better word. Jedi are freaking out, going crazy over 2500+ damage rifle attacks and what not, and to be honest I can understand their fear and frustration. The only information we have right now is that Jedi Defenders (regardless of whether they are master or dabbler) are having Riflemen / BH / SL's hit them for upwards of 2900+ damage during the opening volleys of a BH TEF.If this is accurate information, this means that a Bounty Hunter who dabbles in Squad Leader (which he already possesses both the Scout and Marksman prerequisites necessary to do so), is able to augment his template with enough offensive power to possess an "Alpha Attack" that can potentially incapacitate a full-template Jedi Defender in a single shot. If you have a problem seeing how that is unbalancing and game breaking within the confines of what has been reported, then I believe you need to step away from the game and play something more simplistic, like Tic-Tac-Toe.On the flip side, there is some speculation that these claims COULD be overexaggerations on the part of the Jedi community. If that IS found to be the case, then the discussion is moot and needs to be dropped. However, my proposal details another point entirely.Specifically, why are we even having this conversation?This has nothing to do with Squad Leader, nor should it. Using the mission statement outlined above, this is a perversion of the Squad Leader profession, utilizing it for self-exploitative gain in a manner that was never intended and goes intrinsically against the base foundation of what our Profession is *supposed* to be focused on.I am not a huge fan of Jedi in this game. I think there are far to many of them, but on the same token I don't want to see Squad Leader become a "/win" "uber dude" dabbler profession for Bounty Hunters, nor do I want to see our beloved profession perverted and twisted into something it was never intended to be. We are Squad Leaders. The title of our Profession is not "BH Buddy."One example that I gave eariler to the Rifleman correspondent sums this up pretty easily. Riflemen are perfect. They are snipers ... ranged damage dealers. "Nukers," and their image in the CU is completely balanced for what they are meant to exist as. Squad Leader has another purpose, and one that risks being taken away from us by exploits that will result in nerfs of our Profession if left unchecked.The example I offered: in some bizarre "bug" in the system, let's assume that it was somehow (hypothetically) discovered that taking two boxes of Rifleman gave Swordsmen 5 times their normal damage output. Every Swordsman "uber dude" picks up Rifleman 2/0/0/0 and can suddenly do 8,000 damage in PVP, insta-killing people left and right. Rifleman is no longer the elite nuking profession, because now Swordsman has stolen it away from them through a disturbing perversion of their profession. How would Riflemen feel about this, if this were to happen? Not too good, I'd assume ... and currently that is almost exactly what is happening to Squad Leaders at the hands of less savory Bounty Hunters. They are taking a part of our profession and using it in a way that was never intended, that goes completely against the core fibers of what it means to be a Squad Leader, and becoming "insta-killing Jedi nightmares." Totally unacceptable.
My proposition is extremely simple. Rather than change anything that has to do with Squad Leader's potency or buffs (unless it is a genuine balance issue that needs tweaking for legitimate use in PVP), the changes need to be made to the BH TEF system and the SL Group Requirement system:1.) Change the BH TEF system so that Bounty Hunters may not initiate a BH TEF against a player Jedi unless they are not grouped.This would not hurt the bounty hunter in any way. He gains nothing from being in a group, and frankly it is more Star Wars-centric to have a Bounty Hunter acting alone, anyway. Grouped bounty hunters are where prospective exploits come into play, and frankly I consider the solo SL/BH to be an exploit. It is a perversion of a system, using it in a way that it was never intended to be used.Conversely, the Jedi should suffer no penalty from being in a Group, even with a Squad Leader. It is the Bounty Hunter's discretion when to initiate combat, and if he chooses to engage a Jedi that is in a group, he runs the risk of there being a Squad Leader buffing that Jedi. Jedi do not get to choose the time and place that they are engaged by Bounty Hunters. If a BH engages a Jedi that is in a group with a Squad Leader through no intention of fighting the BH on his own, it is the BH's mistake -- not a game imbalance.2.) Change the SL system so that a Squad Leader may not buff himself unless he is grouped.The purpose of this change is to eliminate the possibility of uber one-man Squad Leader / Bounty Hunters. What the hell would the point of this be, honestly? There is none. It's a perversion of our profession, utilizing it in a way that it is not INTENDED to be used to exploit a system in favor of BH's. This is where our profession becomes free reign to dabblers, and this is where our profession runs the risk of becoming FOTM. We don't want that, folks. This is a restriction we've lived with before, and it's fine.Squad Leaders who want their buffs for legitimate purposes can group with a pet or a droid and get them. Right now, you're asking why a BH can't do the same thing to hunt Jedi. Scroll up, and review point one. Bounty Hunters cannot engage Jedi if they are in a group. Dropping group results in the lack of a Squad Leader bonus, as the Squad Leader must be grouped to activate and maintain his own buff. Therefore, one-man uber BH / SL combos will not become the FOTM and will not result in a huge game balance.Order will be restored, and our profession can get back to focusing on what's really important: making a fun profession to play that will help us stand shoulder to shoulder with our brothers and sisters in battle, guiding and aiding them in their plight.
Some posters have expressed concerns that removing a Bounty Hunter's ability to group with other players will deter them in several ways. Below is a list of the statements that I recall, followed by counter-points.1.) Grouped Bounty Hunters will no longer be able to hunt Jedi if they all take the same Jedi mission.Answer: That's not true at all. There is nothing about this proposal that prevents five "solo" bounty hunters from coordinating an attack against a single Jedi. If the BH's wanted to argue that it diminishes their ability to communicate, I would argue that if you're already going through the trouble of getting everyone to coordinate on taking Jedi missions until you all wind up with the same player mission, creating a *private chat channel* to coordinate shouldn't be that much harder! That completely rectifies this problem.2.) Elder Bounty Hunters will no longer be able to "mentor" younger Bounty Hunters in groups.Answer: Again, this is ridiculous. There's nothing about this proposal that would keep a Bounty Hunter from forming a private chat channel with his "student" or talking to him through tells to show him the ropes of what it means to be a Bounty Hunter.3.) Bounty Hunters will all be racing for the death blow afterward to see who gets the mission payout.Answer: That's the only legitimate concern that the Bounty Hunter's have at this point. I'd argue a few things in counterpoint: for starters, the Devs stated that Jedi names were removed from terminals to prevent griefing. I'd seriously ask if coordinating a massive simultaneous strike against one Jedi isn't griefing to begin with. Second, I believe it would be much easier to change the mechanics so that anyone who engages the Jedi in combat and is "hostile" to the Jedi when he is death blown would receive payment. It would certainly be a better solution to change this mechanic than leave a system in play that could severely imbalance a system that Squad Leader should have NOTHING to do with.4.) Creature Handler BH's need to be able to group their pets!Answer: No, they don't. Creature Handlers have been learning to use their pets ungrouped for ages, now. When a PVP group or a hunting group has eight players in it, your pet isn't getting a spot in the group. You deal with this on a regular basis, and even if you may not like it, it still "works." You don't NEED your pet to be grouped with you -- you WANT your pet to be grouped with you. Distinguishing NEEDS versus WANTS is critical in making a decision like this, and when you're talking about a mechanic that could destroy three entire professions, WANTS take a back seat to NEEDS. It's a sad fact of life, unfortunately. I sympathize, but this is the best way.5.) It's not fair! Why should a Jedi be able to enter a BH TEF with a buff, but I can't!Answer: Because you get to choose the time and place of the BH TEF. If a Jedi is minding his own business in a group with a Squad Leader, using that buff for legitimate purposes, he wasn't looking to exploit. He didn't know you were coming for him. If you use an SL hybrid or an SL in your group, however, you're intentionally manipulating a system for your own gain in a fashion that has nothing at all to do with LEADING SQUADS. For you, it's all about "being uber," and that's not right. Furthermore, BH's are already in a situation where they are supposed to attack when the moment is right. They don't usually walk up to a fully-buffed, fully-fooded Jedi and tell them "hey, bud! I'm here for you!" to give them an honorable heads up -- and they SHOULDN'T. Bounty Hunters are supposed to be SNEAKY, using clever timing and tactics to take down the most dangerous prey in the galaxy. The Bounty Hunter has every ability to identify the fact that the Jedi is in a group with a Squad Leader and to SEE what buffs that Jedi has. The BH can then decide whether or not he wants to attack the Jedi, knowing that those buffs are engaged. After the BH engages, the Jedi's Squad Leader friend cannot do ANYTHING to help him further. Whatever buff he went into battle with is what he's stuck with. You, however, would have the ability to custom tailor all the best SL buffs for an "anti-Jedi" situation before engaging your mark. That's a game imbalance, and an exploit against my profession.
if this was put in, I think this game3 would be 1 step closer to making the vision that is Star Wars....
robpro wrote:
ObsidianWrath wrote:
robpro wrote:1 vs 1 does not equal squad for bh or jedi It is posible for 5 bh to get mission on the same jedi. that would equal a squad of 5 bh if they wanted to spend the time getting the same mission for the same jedi and grouping while doing it.
Five BH's taking the same mission on the same Jedi do not benefit from being grouped with one another, and are subject to the same rules and restrictions as the BH TEF anyway. Furthermore, Jedi names were removed from the terminals "to prevent griefing," and the Dev team clearly defined griefing as selectively going after one target over and over again. If taking one person's mission (from one bounty hunter) over and over again is griefing, I'd seriously question whether or not 5 BH's all getting the same Jedi mission to launch a simultaneous attack isn't griefing, as well. To me, it sounds more like griefing than hunting the same person over and over again.
Furthermore, Bounty Hunter's essence lays within the context of being solo operatives. They are elite. Boba Fett is their icon, and he certainly didn't work with partners ... hell, when you start his quest in Jabba's palace, he even seems confused by the concept of being "offered help." The Squad Leader is entirely different from the Bounty Hunter. If Bounty Hunters want another Scout-based profession to augment their SOLO templates, they should pick up Ranger once the new Ranger changes to to live. Squad Leader should have absolutely nothing to do with the Bounty Hunter's side of the BH/Jedi hunting equation, and it's paradoxical to think so.
BH are elite so give us 5 master skills trees to choose from and make us 1.5 times stronger than everyone except Jedi. but no we are not elite we have to dabble in everything else to try and come up with a template that works good against the common jedi template such as the bh/cm combo to fight mls/md jedi. thas is no different we are not boba fett boba fett was a bounty hunter with his own style the same as us choosing what way we want to hunt and our weapon class. just becasue boba fett hunted solo dont mean jack. all jedi in game are not luke skywalker with only have 1 template to choose from they can dabble in what ever they want and it dont have to be a jedi skill either.
robpro wrote:
If jedi can have sl buffs and not bh then put there names back on ther terminals and allow 10+ bh to take there mission.
Jedi will allways be in groups because they dont get visibility from it and if they are allowed SL buffs in bh fight they all will have 4 SL grouped with them all the time makeing there defense, accuracy, speed, and dmg way to high for bh to have a chance in }{ell on takeing them down.
afk grinded jedi excluded). Jedi knew before they became jedi they would be hunted so they agred to it the day they became jedi for the chance to be stronger.
That is completely ridiculous. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Jedi benefit anywhere near as much from being in a group with a Squad Leader as a Bounty Hunter does. BH's can dabble a couple boxes and get all this potency to themselves under the current system, where as the Jedi would have to pick up two novices and probably three entire trees if he wanted the same abilities. Furthremore, there are no reported examples of Jedi / SL teams running around menacing BH's all day. If Squad Leader is *balanced*, has the Leadership skill implemented for Group Buffs, and cannot be taken by exploiting BH's, there aren't going to be very many Squad Leaders running around. Do you see groups of 4 Master Doctors running around with Jedi all day, since the CU? Hell no, you don't ... because Doctor is a support profession now, rather than one that makes much of a "direct-point" impact on PVP.
I guess we are playing a differnt game. Jedi benefit the same as anyother profession grouped with squad leaders
Master Doctors dont have weapon/defense/ combat ability that Squad leader do.
WE will see after the 18th just how many jedi will be grouping with sl and when they see a solo player coming or after jedi using /duel exploit the buffs will be applied.
.equation, so that you two can keep having your pointless, petty squabbles without distracting this profession. BH's using SL to kill Jedi are using the profession in a manner that was never intended, that has nothing to do with SQUAD LEADING. Jedi in groups with Squad Leaders are at a significant disadvantage compared to BH's with Squad Leaders, as explained, and they are still using the Squad Leader in the manner it was meant to be played. or you mean the manner you meant it to be played.
I want Squad Leader removed from the BH / Jedi
bh first strike ability is to compensate for jedi being 1.5 stronger that is even what the DEV's said in the HoC CHAT when they were talking about removing Jedi names and payouts.
BH First Strike ability has nothing to do with this discussion. This thread is about the possibility of BH's having an instant kill with their first strike, and that's completely unbalanced. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
robpro wrote:
Jedi want there volley fire + double time + call to arms + tactic GOD MODE to fight a solo bh with only doc buffs and food. AFK grinding and ebay is killing this game because of the Jedi it produces that have no clue what there doing and think they are so gimped because they have never played the game.
Proof, please? There are no reports of Jedi abusing this system right now, where as there are tons of reports of BH's doing it. There are no screen shots that even remotely suggest that they CAN. Bounty Hunters are the ones that are obsessed with getting their delicious little "instant-win" exploit, as I suspect you are. I challenge you to prove me wrong in that statement, because anyone who can read between the lines of your thread should be able to spot it pretty easily. Bounty Hunters already have Scout and Marksman, as well as one of the trees necessary to purchase Squad Leader (Ranged Support). They can dabble and obtain skills designed for squad leading to make themselves one man armies. Please explain this logic to me. Explain to me, using real life examples, what exactly is "plausible" about this? "Oh, hey! I'm gonna lead myself into battle!"? Sorry, that isn't going to fly. It's completely irrational, and smacks defiantly in the face of what this profession is supposed to be about. We're support roles, and supposed to buff the group ... not ourselves.
a master bounty hunter / master squad leader with his droid would = a squad. everyone has the ability to group with a pet / droid / faction NPC and use it as part of there SQUAD in PvE and PvP. saying a bh with this template and pet can not use HALF his template to fight should mean a master lightsaber jedi is not allowed to use a lightsaber. If you can get the skills with the allocated 250 skill points it is a valid template and should not be ristricted from using it against jedi bh missions. Its no different than going jedi for cloak only to sneak up on jedi. everyone is allowed to spend there 250 skill points on whatever they choose and whatever template they come up with. The CU skill stacking system is set up for doing just that stacking different skills to give a benefit to something only to lose something else in return.
No SL buffs for both or SL buffs for both is fair and balanced.
Could you possibly be any more irrational?
You know what? A Bounty Hunter / Image Designer doesn't get to use half of their template in combat either!
key work combat? COMBAT ABILITIES but anyway have you tried to image design while in combat it may be posible if the person your fighting accepts the offer.
Perish the thought! You should OBVIOUSLY be able to style the Jedi's hair while you're fighting him! Oh, what's that? Image Designer has nothing to do with solo-elite operative bounty hunters hunting Jedi? And that's why they can't use Image Designer to augment their templates in a BH/Jedi duel? Oh, okay. Guess what? Squad Leader is as distant from this exploited system as Image Designer is. Your argument is self-defeating and ill-founded.
Furthermore, Squad Leaders lead players, not NPC's. Pets and Droids are NPC's, and should not have anything to do with Squad Leader benefits. I have a hard time believing that "Kitty" is going to understand what "fire and maneuver!" means. But then again, I expect such desperate irrationality from those who are focused on gaining their uber "/win" exploit, even if it means destroying my profession in the process. Sorry, I'm going to do everything I can to stand in your way on that one, even if it means making an unholy alliance with the Jedi community. I can't stand Jedi, but they're not the ones trying to exploit, manipulate, and destroy my Profession.
I guess R2D2 didnt know how to take command either or all the combat droids. in the droid army. there were even droid squad leaders. how can you have a droid squad leader when there to stupid to take commands like fire and maneuver.
You keep missing the point entirely. This has nothing to do with the Bounty Hunter. This is not "anti-BH" or "pro-Jedi." This is "Pro-Squad Leader" ... keeping the profession pure the way it was meant to be played. My personal opinion is that Squad Leaders should not be able to buff themselves unless they're grouped with other players, and even then only the group buff should apply ... no single buffs. Honestly, I wouldn't care if we got no benefit from our buffs, because our focus is supposed to be on others ... not ourselves. That is my entire purpose for posting this, and backing this idea. I will defend the integrity of this profession as it was designed to exist until I either win or am beaten. Bounty Hunter / SL is a perversion of what this profession is supposed to do. Bounty Hunters and Jedi are always so full of themselves, thinking this entire game revolves around them and keeping their precious little war system "fair."
You sound PRO-JEDI to me if you want to give them a benifit that another class is suposed to do without even if its part of there template. be pro-squad leader and balance it the same for everyone not just the jedi
The thought of a Swordsman / Squad Leader grouping a droid and killing Krayt Dragons all day is equally ridiculous, for the same reasons.
So is a Rifleman / Squad Leader, alone, blowing the heads off of NPC's in the Avatar Platform all day with one-shot kills. These are both hypothetical examples, of course.
This has nothing to do with BH / Squad Leader, other than to remove it as an issue ... since it should have nothing to do with this Profession.
So a squad leader in the military has no weapon training. is it not posible that just maybe he had to learn how to shoot a weapon and may have 1 special type of weapon as a back up defense in case his squad was dead and it was down to just him and the enemy. your argument makes it sound like squad leader should be only that a squad leader and nothing else.
Period.
Message Edited by ObsidianWrath on 10-17-2005 05:46 PM
well im not boba fett so i dont have to hunt like him just like all the smugglers are not han solo and all the jedi are not luke skywalker. dont pick peoples template based on a character in the movieWE ARE OUR OWN CHARACTER with our own choosen skillsMessage Edited by robpro on 10-17-2005 08:04 PM
question:
where you MSL before you knew about this patch or did you pick it up because of it?
I believe I already know the answer, and thus your reasoning why you don't want to lose your great winning template.
I don't want my profession hurt anymore than you want yours hurt. As it goes in real life, it goes here. Who you are on the inside and how you play is the real you, not who you are on the outside or where you're from. I enjoy my profession and hate these arguements. I will not stop being a Squad Leader because it is who I am and the types of characters I've played in other rpgs. There are things that I feel need to be worked out. I will get angry at anyone who "tests" something ridiculous. In fact, one post I made said, "I did 70k damage to a melon". There are people here in this thread that I trust when they say information. Stick around and you'll learn who they are and come to the same conclusion I have. They are trusted./kowtow
rofl, not even the SL corro will agree w/ you on that, or the BHs for that matter...
KyiasLightsun wrote:
The fact of being a Jedi aside...
I completely agree with every aspect of your post....I always wanted to try SL and be that support role, but afraid to touch it atm because of everything surrounding it right now...
I pray it works out for you guys, because TBH this revamp is perfect.
_scout_ wrote:
A BH who is willing to take SL into his template to hunt jedi is in my player eyes okay, although some more hard core SL argue about that, we dont think it should be totally prohibited.
The original skill point systems idea was to be able to create your individual template appropriate to your character and playstyle, BUT when multiple BH group up to gain the advantage of multiple SL buffs to hunt jedi, this is against the original concept of the BH/jedi game as 1vs1 as well as it is "bypassing" the BH/jedi TEF, thus in fact close to being an "exploit".
Also we are not trying to "nerf" our own profession but we are still researching if a balance is need and for this we need reliable test data and appropriate descriptions of the test setup, as well as all involved templates and abilities.
There are two abilities which are involved in the those high damage shots and that are mostly paint target ( +15%damage to target for the next 30 seconds) and called shot (+ 110% damage to the next attack to target).
Both together can generate a damage boost of + 140% damage to one attack (see my test data).
In conjuction with the high damage shots of the rifleman and the BH these lead to very high damage shots.
Still:Called Shot + High Damage Shot = 0 damage + 2x 1900 = 3800 damage
High Damage Shot + High Damage Shot = 1900 + 1900 = 3800 damage
If Called Shot does NOT significantly increases the damage of his next shot, the squad leader himself would be better off in using an other high damage shot rather than using called shot.
So although the damage over time using these abilities might be balanced, the damage done in one hit is not. Just lowering Calledshots damage modifier will make called shot close to useless, since there would be no benefit anymore for the SL to use this ability.
Now this is where we have to see, how "objective" these test circumstances are and depending on that we might have to look for an alternate option.
TBH wouldn't it be better to keep paint target how it is, but change Call shot to be in line with melee Armor breaks?
Interested in response.
Thassk wrote:
That is rediculous. You want 10 BH on the same mission? You talk about Jedi as if you were an expert.
One, I RARELY ever group
Two, Jedi were meant to be 1.5x stronger, but it never happened. Our defenses are broken, healing is weakest, dmg is weakest, FR is broken, AI is broken, force aura is now broken, we're extremely limited by our broken force pool and still broken regen rates
Three, you assume Jedi stand around fully buffed in group waiting for the BH attack. Not true, most are tired of them wasting our time. I RARELY EVER use doc buffs since they are next to worthless. LET ALONE SL BUFFS.
So you want 10 BH on same missions again because a Jedi MIGHT have SL buffs. ZERO logic in that post. SL buffs shouldn't even be a factor in these really retarded BH vs Jedi duels. Every BH expects us to be an easy kill target for their content, WE'RE NOT.
This system won't last. You have BHers killing 15 Jedi in a row easier than NPCs with ZERO RISK or LOSS right now. 8k dmg shots incapping instantly.
You are forgetting that BH is SUPPOSED to involve strategy. Not just following the arrow, hop off and start shooting like 99% of them do. If they are too tough, wait for them to hit their moment of weakness (which is easy with all the nerfs hitting ONLY us).
ok i dont mean to troll ... so im not going to debate you on your points regarding template ...
i also want to say i agree there shouldnt be more than one BH on a jedi at this time
but there is one thing id like to ask you ...
considering the fact the developers gave jedi an alternate slot ...do you think the developers ever intended people with jedi to use those jedi as their main toons?
in response to your statement ( which i have enlarged and underlined to make it easier to pinpoint )... i dont think the developers intended for jedi to be standing or hanging around PERIOD ...
many people forgot thism they forgot the statements developers made in regards to jedi when the game first came out .. ... jedi wasnt meant to be a right, i dont think it was meant for everyone.. .. its a privlaedged character .. it was built for the sole purpose of high end extremely difficult play ... and RP'ing ... it was meant to only be used and seen rarely ...
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-20-2005 02:17 PM
that is true, but that thought changed over time when they made our main toons become Jedi.
I wouldn't mind half the stuff that happens so much if my alt was the Jedi, but my main is my world....like I'm sure it is for anyone else. Sadly, SOE has made it where Jedi do, aare are meant to be standing around in this type of a situation.
I wouldn't play my Jedi half as much if he wasn't my main.
Skwall wrote:
rofl, not even the SL corro will agree w/ you on that, or the BHs for that matter...
KyiasLightsun wrote:
The fact of being a Jedi aside...
I completely agree with every aspect of your post....I always wanted to try SL and be that support role, but afraid to touch it atm because of everything surrounding it right now...
I pray it works out for you guys, because TBH this revamp is perfect.
better than before imo...
it has its problems, but everything SOE revamps has problems....heck look at Jedi my own prof. We were "balanced" for the CU...
I don't doubt the unstable nature of SL right now, but I do believe that SL finnally has a future....thus to me a perfect solution