Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leader the DOOMED profession here's why....Jedi nerf cries Mounting(UPDATED)
From all i know, i dare to state one correction. It's not SOE who wanted and planed all those quick releases and half-done jobs.Lucasarts is pulling the strings, RotW was asked for and scheduled by Lucasarts, the CU was also "scheduled" by them to be ready at the set time.
This timescale, dictated by Lucasarts, lead to the current state of the combat system. The same is true for ToOW, Lucasarts wanted another expansion SOE had to deliver, the new expansion was not in the interest of Sony but contracts allowed Lucasarts to force them to do it.
Of course, staff decissions, reorganisations and investments in other (not so well running) other MMORPGs at Sony, as described above, also didn't help matters.
Anyways, please take my statement with the small grain of salt, while i trust my memory, i can't easily provide evidence to prove that.
JediAsh wrote:
Vegitaa wrote:
Frag99 wrote:
Bloodfin_Architect wrote:
Frag99,
Somehow, I'm not surprised a BH authored this thread. We don't have to be rocket scientists to see where this is going. Much like BH's posting in the CM threads, pretending to be champions of thier cause. Don't you think there is enough hate and discontent over our two professions without coming to the SL forum to rachet it up?
There are a lot more issues than Jedi / BH affecting the SL changes. What about groups of overts with a SL? How about guild wars, the GCW, space combat, quests, the new instances in ToW, and PVE grinding (will this be the new FTW grind group) to name a few? Did you think that maybe a small group of just 2 people with a SL might be able to camp any loot site in the game 24/7? SL has been the step-child of this game for as long as I've been playing (over 2 years now) and while this change is certain to be an improvement, its almost certainy headed for the nerf bat before the first volley is fired.
Let SL's work this out please. I don't think they need either a BH or Jedi telling them how it is going to be?
Somebody better start supporting the revamp for this profession. This could have been one of the coolest professions in game, encouraging grouping and social interaction. Like everything else in SWG it got left behind by the Jedi Jihad.
ENOUGH!
I want to see ANY non-Jedi profession get something decent done for them, its about time.
SAY NO TO PREEMPTIVE NERFING!
I have 2 Jedi and I say no to pre-emptive nerfing. Matter of fact I don't support nerfing anyone. Simply though, this is unbalancing. 5k hits in one shot is a bit ridiculous. But the key is not to nerf'ing Squad Leader before the patch even goes through.
The solution is to remove Squad Leader buffs from considiration during BH/Jedi pvp. Under all other circumstances SL buffs are in full affect but when it comes to Jedi vs BH they should not apply. I hate Nerfs.. HATE NERFS!!!! As far as Jedi being the only one's getting good things.. we've recieved at least one nerf in every patch since 19. But, thats not even the issue. I agree that the BH/Jedi pvp has become too much of the focus for this Dev team.
The snare "fix" or "nerf" will come and people will learn to deal with it. Just like everything else. Leave the Squad Leaders alone. Give them their patch (though I don't think they deserved it before Smugglers.. but again, whatcha gonna do?)
Realize, this doesn't only benefit BH'ers. Do you really think the Jedi aren't going to use the same advantage of grouping with a squad leader? This is not and should not be a Jedi/BH issue. The issue is that Squad Leaders will now become one of the new dabbler classes. Now we will see people standing in starports spamming "Looking to group with SL. Will pay for buffs!".
Give them their patch as the patch notes said, no changes. As a Jedi I'm not stressing it, I have a second account. I'll just grind out SL in 2 days or so, log him in on a laptop. /follow, /SLmacro.
Stop with the damn nerfs. Try fixing things for once. Squad Leaders were the least played profession not too long ago, now they've been thrust into the same box as the respec BH'ers. Welcome to the spotlight, I feel sorry for the old school squad leaders.
This is so true. I also feel this is a trap many many BH and Jedi fall into when thinking about they're profession. Everytime I read some post about adding/changing a pile of things that relate ONLY to BH/Jedi interaction, I just shake my head.
What about the broken commando weapons? Smugglers? Dabblers being greater then masters(doc/cm)? Crafters getting a bigger and bigger shaft every patch?
Those are issues that should be getting development time (along with bug fixes).
I'm really glad for the Squad Leaders, what I've seen and heard so far, looks nice. But, Im too used to seeing stuff come out of test unbalanced, and then nerfed into worthless because the dev team couldnt listen to the tons of useful feedback out there.
I hate grinding. I have a small guild that I have tried to do my best to assist if possible. I optioned to be a Master Force Healer to assist/support/help my friends rather than picking one of the known powertemplates.
SecondComing wrote:
every jedi I know is a grind-aholic and a member of a huge guild (comprised mostly of Jedi and their alts living in the city of Leet Town on Dantooine with 20 factional bases on the outskirts armed with 4 turrets)....you can't find one guy in your entire guild that would take one for the team?....that wasa large part of the reason I grinded SL...I mastered it a long time ago and then dropped it....now I came back to it.....cripe I'm a MSL/MBH and I don't even bother with Jedi missions.....I just want to make my squad lethal and present an unbalanced fight to my enemy ....I remember a sig one time that I liked but I never stole it but I'll quote it now...."If you find yourself in an even fight you didn't prepare properly"
Squad Leaders bring that edge......if you nerf SL you nerf 7 other people by proxy
I love to play a pve support role. I always did. All I need for my timeis a "thanks for your help, we couldnt do this without you". My second character is therefore a Master Combat Medic / Master Doctor / Master Medic / 4134 Marksman, and I love it. It's the strongest support template I ever created.
To me, roles are important, and unintended use of a professions individual skills only lead to nerfs to that role, never the people who abused it, they only "adjust" by regrinding to the next fotm. The only people hurt by unintended useare people who play what they want to play and therefore also mastered their profession, despite knowing it's not the most powerful template out there.
Master Combat Medics where optimized to be a strong groupsupport role, and be able to heal a group. After months of using Master Combat Medics in defeating Jedi with MBH/MCM templates, ToOW was introduced with a great amount of loot items that make people near immune against their stuff. Now the BH community starts to abandon their old tool and jumpto the Squad Leader profession instead. They will continue touse them as their tool until it's nerfed, then move on to the next.
Squad Leader means "Master of a Group". Master means they control and command. Group means several people, yes that's more than solo. So if you are MSL for solo, chanses are that your planned use for SL is removed in a future publish.
Squad Leader is a support profession, thus, an SL should be able to boost a group of 7 players beyond the power of 8. Let them be what they where introduced for, start to think about your squad andyour support role rather thanyourself. Let SL buffs be forgroupsupport like they where intended, notsolo play,just like bactaspray.
If you are MBH/MSL without the intention to use MSL for BH missions, you prefer SL Buffs dropping at a BH TEF before having your individual buffs nerfed to oblivion, right? I know being unable to use buffs on yourself sucks, but it's better to keep Squad Leaders unnerfed for their role, than nerfed for unintended use.
ThargarOtherland wrote:Just dropped MBH for MSL. While grinding out my SL skills in a group yesterday, there were time when jedis were in my group spinning. All these jedis need to stop complaining and crying nerf because I seem to remember them getting the SL buff yesterday everytime I applied them to my group. Heck, there were time they would ask me to apply certain buffs becuase of the added protection they got from it. They cry enough, they loss that protection and BHs will just go to the next high power combination. I hate that they dont know how to PVP because all they do is grind, but if they would just take the time to leave how to do something other than spin groups, they may not need to cry nerf all the time. The ones crying are going to get killed no matter what the combination is, wiether it is MBH/MSL, or another combo, they cant PVP.So far I like this profession and hope that they dont cry it out of exsistance. The DEVs need to remember that not everyone is a Jedi, although it is starting to look like it.
I doubt you'll find many Jedi in the real game environment calling for nerfs. Most of the 'Zomg its overpowered' stuff is coming from screenshots of setup conditions.
What I personally dont wanna see, is that you need to drag a SL with you to be successful or survive. But when your grouped, yeah they should give you tons of butt kicking power.
Some of you really need to grow up and get over it and drop the player base hatred already, andbe more damned constructive.
All jedi are l33t pwning asshats, about as much as I believe MSL's are l33t pwning asshats.
Message Edited by KnightHawk420 on 10-31-2005 01:57 PM
BadChef wrote:
Few other profession forums you might want to send that quote to since our ability is only a part of the equation. Also what I noticed in that 'damage' thread were alot of new bh/sl's and some others trying to ad to the flame talking about extreme damage. If you were trying to say that somehowactual squad leaders were bragging about doing insane damage then you havnt been to this forum enough to know better, so I forgive you.
Since that code 66 went into effect, the remaining jedis went into hiding. At least as far as I know. This is for sure not the fact with SWG jedis. They genreally act openly, even though the empire uses bounty hunters to track them down, and kill them. So in my eyes, the jedis can blame themselves for getting whacked. There are way too many jedis in this game. But do understand that every purchaser should have the same chance of attaining jedi-hood. I just think that as soon as a jedi show itself in public in a major settlement, imperial troops should be sent there to take it out.
But then we come to the bounty hunters. How many out there are bounty hunters on their main toon? and how many bounty hunters are in fact a jedi's alt toon? It would be interesting to see some numbers here.
SL-buffedBH vs. Jedi: Well as soon as the TEF comes in effect take away the SL buffs.
Message Edited by ColonelJalaan on 11-01-2005 10:23 AM
ColonelJalaan wrote:
Since that code 66 went into effect, the remaining jedis went into hiding. At least as far as I know. This is for sure not the fact with SWG jedis. They genreally act openly, even though the empire uses bounty hunters to track them down, and kill them. So in my eyes, the jedis can blame themselves for getting whacked. There are way too many jedis in this game. But do understand that every purchaser should have the same chance of attaining jedi-hood. I just think that as soon as a jedi show itself in public in a major settlement, imperial troops should be sent there to take it out.
But then we come to the bounty hunters. How many out there are bounty hunters on their main toon? and how many bounty hunters are in fact a jedi's alt toon? It would be interesting to see some numbers here.
While theese individuals consists of less than 5% of the Jedi population, they still dictate the reputation of the entire community; thousands of Jedi who already try their best to stay out of sight. They dictate the population simply becouse they are seen, while they majority is not. Do you honestly believe that the few campers you see daily are all Jedi on your server?
Furthermore, theese individuals are the least effected by the current system meant to keep Jedi out of sight - the Visibility system. In fact, they even gain from it.
The Visibility system do not care if you are seen by 20 players and 4 stormtroopers right outside Theed Starport, or if you defeat 4 marouders that just attacked you on Endor.
Once on the terminal it takes 3 weeks to go "hidden" again, and no player want to keep out of the game for 3 weeks just becouse they defended themselves against 4 marouders.
Once on the terminal, you are in constant danger and need to be prepared 24/7. This means, Lightsaber in hand and force-macros running. At least Enhancers will shine like a christmastree, just to keep safe from sudden attacks.
The tiny Jedi population you see likes to be hunted. They gain from behaving like they do, directly feeding upon the majority's reputation like vampires. Theese players wont change unless SoE change the Visibility system to FOCUS on punishing thoose who have nothing against proving their might in the middle of Theed. A Visibility system that stop an endless supply of Fame & Glory to thoose who truly want to "show off". A Visibility system that rewards thoose players who play their Jedi like a refugee and keep themselves out of sight in respect for other players and in respect of the nature of their profession(exiles & refugees). A Visibility system that do not work against it's own purpose.
The Visibility system do not represent our "Risk" that gives us our "Reward" (Great power). It represent the nature of Jedi as a Refugee. It's just so simple and narrowminded that it works against it's own purpose.
It's a shame that a few give a reputation to the majority, and are free to continue to do so.
If the BH system shall stay in game, this is the best solution, since it doesnt nerf real SquadLeaders at all.
ColonelJalaan wrote:
SL-buffedBH vs. Jedi: Well as soon as the TEF comes in effect take away the SL buffs.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 11-01-2005 12:57 PM