Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leader the DOOMED profession here's why....Jedi nerf cries Mounting(UPDATED)
captiansarcasmo
Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:10 am
#79
hey blue glowie, for discussion sake, whats your opinion of sl now? as far as your benefit to the group as an individual now compared to pre 24?
AshamonReborn
Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:51 am
#81
You know, the whining sad sacks screaming for a nerf to MSL just make me want to puke.
Since launch this profession has been broken. I have been MSL on two seperate ocassions before this publish and have had to change again and again because it just was a waste of skill points. Now I have MSL and can actually contribute in a battle since pub 24. You know what? In solo fights I win some and I lose some. Most of the time Jedi can still beat me with MBH/MSL... so what is the complaint there? In big battles... the skill is only as good as the player.... I use called shot but if everyone isnt paying attention.. they dont use their critical shot and so /shrug the damage isnt so awesome... in big battles I get singled out by riflemen and opossiong squad leaders... sometimes I survive (with all the jedi and medics supporting me lol) and alot of times I dont. Even in large scale PVP I have had opossing Jedi rush our forces just to get to me... it adds more to PVP in my opinion. Squad Leader still needs more (better changes) that will add to content and player environment but for now.. this is a great first start. All the whiners out there... just worry about your own professions and leave ours the hell alone.....
SpunkyKuma
Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:59 am
#82
OK, let's be clear on this. I don't care about how SL works in PVP/GCW, because there are other people in your/their group that can heal, rez, AOE, coordinate, etc. But BH/Jedi is a different system and by no means should benefit from SQUAD LEADER which is a group based profession while BH/Jedi is 1 vs 1 as the devs designed it to be.
This was brought up to attention the first or second day of beta of ToOW and obviously devs ignored it and let it slip through live, exactly the same thing happened during JTL beta- Rebel ships had invulnurable shields after droid commands and it was brought up countless times during beta then it slipped through live and wasn't fixed until 2 months later (before Christmas), there's the RG Interceptor with invulnurable hitboxes now and will probably take a while before that gets fixed too.
Devs seem to show lack of interest and attention of the raw feedback from actual testing players, but instead seem to listen to LIVE server community that rings an outcry. With this, they're bound to nerf SL rather than deal with the BH/Jedi issue.
This was brought up to attention the first or second day of beta of ToOW and obviously devs ignored it and let it slip through live, exactly the same thing happened during JTL beta- Rebel ships had invulnurable shields after droid commands and it was brought up countless times during beta then it slipped through live and wasn't fixed until 2 months later (before Christmas), there's the RG Interceptor with invulnurable hitboxes now and will probably take a while before that gets fixed too.
Devs seem to show lack of interest and attention of the raw feedback from actual testing players, but instead seem to listen to LIVE server community that rings an outcry. With this, they're bound to nerf SL rather than deal with the BH/Jedi issue.
Vicci A'Tivo - Elder "in your face" Bounty Hunter
AshamonReborn
Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:06 am
#83
SpunkyKuma wrote:
OK, let's be clear on this. I don't care about how SL works in PVP/GCW, because there are other people in your/their group that can heal, rez, AOE, coordinate, etc. But BH/Jedi is a different system and by no means should benefit from SQUAD LEADER which is a group based profession while BH/Jedi is 1 vs 1 as the devs designed it to be.
This was brought up to attention the first or second day of beta of ToOW and obviously devs ignored it and let it slip through live, exactly the same thing happened during JTL beta- Rebel ships had invulnurable shields after droid commands and it was brought up countless times during beta then it slipped through live and wasn't fixed until 2 months later (before Christmas), there's the RG Interceptor with invulnurable hitboxes now and will probably take a while before that gets fixed too.
Devs seem to show lack of interest and attention of the raw feedback from actual testing players, but instead seem to listen to LIVE server community that rings an outcry. With this, they're bound to nerf SL rather than deal with the BH/Jedi issue.
Are you kidding me? There are too many jedi as it is... I have 330 guild members and 95% of them are grinding jedi or already have jedi... anything that helps crush the jedi poplulation is good to me....
SpunkyKuma
Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:11 am
#84
Unfortunately not much is going to stop a player from getting Jedi, Jedi is the end-game for SWG and the majority of new players buy the game for Jedi. Population control won't work very well, PVP was and will be dominated by Jedi until they get seperated into their own Light/Dark type PVP if that ever happens with the FRS. I myself almost never log on Jedi anymore.
SpunkyKuma
Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:32 am
#85
Yeah, but I also rarely log in game anymore, I just log in once in a whlie to play with the SL stuff in a MO grind group or go farm crystals to sell, my sub runs up in a few weeks, so for now I'm forum hogging 
. I came back a week and half ago after 2 months inactive to see that I enjoy this game a little less now.
. I came back a week and half ago after 2 months inactive to see that I enjoy this game a little less now.
MsNiL
Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:38 pm
#86
That's like mcdonalds poisoning their burgers to make sure people dont get fat.
AshamonReborn wrote:
So there you go.. population control.. make life so miserable for the jedi that they dont want to play the character as often....sounds like it is working to me....I know quite a few jedi who wont log in now because of the root and because of SL.... sounds like its working to me
BadChef
Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:50 pm
#87
Ya I have to agree there. Not much about swg jedi I like and would love to see less and less of them, but they pay their 15$ a month and that would be a childish way of regulateing the jedi population that they allowed to grow recklessly in the first place. Infact, it's as lazy as all those jedi saying nerf squad leader.
Rizzaka
Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:51 pm
#88
MsNiL wrote:
That's like mcdonalds poisoning their burgers to make sure people dont get fat.
AshamonReborn wrote:
So there you go.. population control.. make life so miserable for the jedi that they dont want to play the character as often....sounds like it is working to me....I know quite a few jedi who wont log in now because of the root and because of SL.... sounds like its working to me
The poster you qouted has a valid point, the Dev's did state some time ago that they had plans to make jedi more rare however they did not say how. I agree with make it so hard on them that they just shelf the character for now, after they go away for a bit and calm down you bring back serious losses to the proffession and along with it the power that it once had.
MsNiL
Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:01 pm
#89
Rizzaka wrote:
The poster you qouted has a valid point, the Dev's did state some time ago that they had plans to make jedi more rare however they did not say how. I agree with make it so hard on them that they just shelf the character for now, after they go away for a bit and calm down you bring back serious losses to the proffession and along with it the power that it once had.
If you look at the history of SWG from a business perspective you must begin with:
A corporation show no ethics, and have no "love" for their money making machines except the money printed. A game is a product, a product is produced to make money.
One of the first major flaws of SWG is that the StarWars License is known to print it's own money, without much effort. Looking at the history of Star Wars games there's really just four that was not cut short in development time, produced by major professional game companies:
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight II
Jedi Academy
Knights of the Old Republic
When Knights of the Old Republic IIcame, the small company Obsidian Software was forced to publish the game early to print money. As a result, the game was broken on XBox and unfinished on PC.
Now, the history of Jedi in SWG is a result of thesame destiny. Back in the days, someone with a great vision designed the basics for this game. Development time was then cut short, and the game was released prematurely, with alot of major bugs still to go, and broken professions from launch.
What happened then was that the developer pool was cut down for other projects, while the remaining developers did their best to stabilize a swamp of bugs. The Pre-CU system was severly complex to balance, and each attempt just caused further and further issues.
Simply: Prematurely released, the game was Doomed from launch.
Bad reviews and people where leaving. To get people to stay awhile longer, the devs decided to "sell out" Jedi, as an attractive goal for thoose who still played the game. Thereby they introduced the Holocrons as christmas gifts.
But not all players liked the holocron system, and about one year later of attempting to fix bugs, people still whined about "content". SoE decided to try again. In tbe barren content-less wastelands known as Star Wars Galaxies, the village of Aurilia was dumped on Dathomir as a way of saying "Please stay another 9 months... Here, have a Jedi... please... and have fun with the new content as well". Again: Sell-out to get people to stay longer.
Believe me on this one: Aurilia was a marketing tactic, nothing else. There was no plan in this publish whatsoever besides making Jedi an attractive gift for thoose who stayed another 9 months.
Here things speed up, becouseEverQuest 2 justflopped...
The Aurilia and the new Jedi system wasrushed out of the door (most noteable in the FRS system as some now banned members of this community revealed), it was now time to seriously speed up the production of the long awaited CU (around here SoE probably thought they could make up the flop of EverQuest 2 by making SWG their primary game).
Well... rushed again. CU was released several months too early, and in this upgrade "Jedi was not in scope"... Well, ALOT of things where "out of scope" to speed things up.
"Not in scope" means that Jedi where never upgraded to be compatible with this new system. Now, any person who ever used an "older component" should know what happens. Old computer parts, old car parts, old electronics. It's rare that they work, and even if they do, they come with odd quirks. This is Jedi post-cu. Massive changes where made to the overall system (like removal of Toughness), but nobody got around to fix Jedi.
Instead of finishing Jedi, Artisans and Entertainers (and all other bugs) SoE instead decided to create an Episode III expansion... a new starwarsbox to cash in on the new movie and bring SWG back on the shelves, just in time for the new movie.
So everything was halted, RotW came... and then SoE bought Matrix Online.
Where the issues about Jedi and Artisans heard?
No, SoE was in the Matrix.
End of summer, things start to speed up again. Then someone comes up with the bright idea to release yet another expansion (RotW probably sold well enough for Sony to feel that another expansion was worth it). Again everything halted. Things rushed. Jedi tweaked a bit to be compatible with the ToOW expansion, but little time where left to actually fix thoose issues introduced by being "out of scope of the cu".
So far ToOW generally appears as a "smaller" expansion IMO. It's open, it's not tied together in a long series of quests, and it's really just one large overland map, not four or five like RoTW was.
This post, is based on the conspiracy theory that the current state of Jedi is a "planned design". This theory doesnt really make much sense if you look at SWG as a product from a large scale corporation. A corporation do not ruin their own product on purpose, but they tend to "forget" their customers, and even their own subdivisions.
With subtracted funds there's subtracted manpower. With subtracted manpower there is lack of time. With lack of time there's hasty decisions. With decisions are made in haste,things often end up worse than intended. This is why Jedi is weak.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-29-2005 12:22 AM
captiansarcasmo
Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:03 pm
#90
and that post belongs in the jedi forum with the rest. what are you trying to convince us of again?
_scout_
Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:10 pm
#91
Watch who you are aiming at Captain.
Although I once ran into an argument with MsNil regarding the /formup nerf PRE CU, she is not our enemy here.
In fact she is doing the same as we, trying to protect her chosen profession.
Personally I found this bit of knowledge very interesting and to a certain point you are right.
That doesnt belong into this dicussion but rather stickied on each forum at the top, and everybody has to read that before he is allowed to post better before he is allowed to install SWG.
Copy and pasted to keep this archieved for me.
Although I once ran into an argument with MsNil regarding the /formup nerf PRE CU, she is not our enemy here.
In fact she is doing the same as we, trying to protect her chosen profession.
Personally I found this bit of knowledge very interesting and to a certain point you are right.
That doesnt belong into this dicussion but rather stickied on each forum at the top, and everybody has to read that before he is allowed to post better before he is allowed to install SWG.
Copy and pasted to keep this archieved for me.