Squad Leader Archive
Thread: FEEDBACK: The Group Leader Issue
LiakyK wrote:
Yeraze wrote:
Well, i've read most of the posts and mulled the concept over. I have to agree, SL's need a GL Requirement.
If they're dead-set on removing it and allowing multiple effective SL's in a group, then change our name to "tactician" or something.
We already have that title, or your mean "Squad Tactician"
Squad Tactician would work, I suppose.. I honestly just meant moving the Tactics title to the Master box (Master Tactician), and come up with something new for that branch. Just seems wrong to have multiple "Squad Leaders" in a group.
We don't have that many SL's. :-P Myself, Aurek, Goldy, and Kydia are the ones I really know of that participate to any degree. All got it pre-CU. Haven't seen any post CU ones, not that stuck with it anyway. A couple that have it for base hacking purposes that sometimes act as SL of a group, but that's not what they normally play or care about.
_scout_ wrote:
And a little bit bragging Heinz, I've been playing with 2MSL and one SL dabbler(basebuster toon) + myself as MSL once in one group.
HzGuderian wrote:
We don't have that many SL's. :-P Myself, Aurek, Goldy, and Kydia are the ones I really know of that participate to any degree. All got it pre-CU. Haven't seen any post CU ones, not that stuck with it anyway. A couple that have it for base hacking purposes that sometimes act as SL of a group, but that's not what they normally play or care about.
_scout_ wrote:
And a little bit bragging Heinz, I've been playing with 2MSL and one SL dabbler(basebuster toon) + myself as MSL once in one group
I dont group with other SLs cause im usually the only one around, but with this Revamp Im sure ill end up seein alot of dabblers who want to throw in what they think is good.
HzGuderian wrote:... Myself, Aurek, Goldy, and Kydia
*notes down the names*
are these correct spelled ?
Dont want to miss them with my /tar *insert imperial MLS name* ; /sys \#FF0000 Concentrate fire on %TT!; /painttarget
...I think you already got the names of the two other rebel MSL, I ll keep the other not yet active rebel SL names classified till they gonna hit the battlefield
...You'll notice them when they are ready
p.s.
I usually throw other MLS out of the group as soon as I can but we were just 8ppl so well ...
Message Edited by _scout_ on 09-08-2005 07:34 PM
I've grouped with a couple SLs now and then, one fairly often. I won't group with Liaky cause my drying bill is always so high to get the wookiee hair off my uniform.
LiakyK wrote:
HzGuderian wrote:
We don't have that many SL's. :-P Myself, Aurek, Goldy, and Kydia are the ones I really know of that participate to any degree. All got it pre-CU. Haven't seen any post CU ones, not that stuck with it anyway. A couple that have it for base hacking purposes that sometimes act as SL of a group, but that's not what they normally play or care about.
_scout_ wrote:
And a little bit bragging Heinz, I've been playing with 2MSL and one SL dabbler(basebuster toon) + myself as MSL once in one group
I dont group with other SLs cause im usually the only one around, but with this Revamp Im sure ill end up seein alot of dabblers who want to throw in what they think is good.
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
I've grouped with a couple SLs now and then, one fairly often. I won't group with Liaky cause my drying bill is always so high to get the wookiee hair off my uniform.
LiakyK wrote:
HzGuderian wrote:
We don't have that many SL's. :-P Myself, Aurek, Goldy, and Kydia are the ones I really know of that participate to any degree. All got it pre-CU. Haven't seen any post CU ones, not that stuck with it anyway. A couple that have it for base hacking purposes that sometimes act as SL of a group, but that's not what they normally play or care about.
_scout_ wrote:
And a little bit bragging Heinz, I've been playing with 2MSL and one SL dabbler(basebuster toon) + myself as MSL once in one group
I dont group with other SLs cause im usually the only one around, but with this Revamp Im sure ill end up seein alot of dabblers who want to throw in what they think is good.
I hate Homer anyway
Keldarin wrote:
Hey guys,
Lots of great discussion here. Honestly I'm a bit surprised and encouraged that this is the biggest issue most of you have with the new Squad Leader enhancements. Hopefully some insight into why I changed the group leader requirement will help. (Not that I expect everyone to agree with me.
The primary goal of the changes was to make Squad Leader into a profession that was exciting and rewarding to play. Ideally every single profession skill set should have something exciting and rewarding about them that makes everyone want to try playing that profession. In that situation we would not longer have people playing a profession simply because it's the most powerful or best but because they personally prefer the playstyle offered by that profession.
Squad Leader has two primary roles that of group leadership and that of group enhancement. The previous focus on group leadership seemed to cause some perception problems with Squad Leader that turned players away from even trying the profession. There is also the problem that true leadership is not something that can ever be granted through character skills but is something almost intangible that is possessed by the player regardless of what character they are playing. These observations made me decide to concentrate on the group enhancement role of the Squad Leader profession. Group enhancement is a game mechanic that benefits everyone and really gives a solid strength and purpose to the profession. The concept of group leadership is still important and specific abilities that assist in that role were given but that is no longer the primary focus of the profession. This means that players can have a rewarding purpose and enjoy playing a Squad Leader regardless of whether they are the group leader or not. This also means that multiple Squad Leaders in a group can continue to benefit and enhance the group the same way multiple Riflemen or multiple Bounty Hunters do.
I've read all the great reasons for keeping Squad Leader abilities limited to the group leader and for the most part agree with many of them. The problem though is that a group leader restriction is too limiting and will prevent a large portion of players from being able to enjoy being a Squad Leader. The reality is that not having the restriction does not prevent any experienced and qualified Squad Leader from taking the leadership role that they desire and in fact can perform better due to the tools available to them, while still allowing players with Squad Leader skills to join a group in a support role that benefits everyone in the group and is rewarding to play.
I see your point, but for the same reasons you expressed about "leadership" often being about the player more than the character, any player in a group could play that role, regardless of whether his character is actually the leader of the group. Group Leader, as it is, is merely a game mechanic that is used to control who is in and out of the group and a few other things totally apart from combat strategy and communications.
The problem I see with not requiring SL to be the group leader and/or allowing more than one SL to affect the group, is one of a power issue. What if every player in the group has SL? Then all the single player enhancements could be applied to each player, making SL the ultimate FOTM, and probably not as intended.
!
Rikilii wrote:I see your point, but for the same reasons you expressed about "leadership" often being about the player more than the character, any player in a group could play that role, regardless of whether his character is actually the leader of the group. Group Leader, as it is, is merely a game mechanic that is used to control who is in and out of the group and a few other things totally apart from combat strategy and communications.
The problem I see with not requiring SL to be the group leader and/or allowing more than one SL to affect the group, is one of a power issue. What if every player in the group has SL? Then all the single player enhancements could be applied to each player, making SL the ultimate FOTM, and probably not as intended.
Exactly. To take it one step further, Right now the consideration of taking a Squad Leader into the group is one of "Do you trust him enough to follow him?" If you don't, then you can still invite him and fight alongside him until you've decided whether or not you like him. With SL having the only ability in the game to directly effect other player's abilities in a possibly detrimental way (eg: the massive stat-drain of retreat for example), now it's an issue of do you even trust him enough to fight alongside him? Even if you don't follow him, he can really screw you up.
Other professions are limited in what they can do to either personal benefits (rifleman, BH, etc) or to beneficial-only benefits (Doc & Entertainer Buffs). SL is the only profession that has buffs with Detrimental side effects (that I can think of anyway), that can be applied against a player's wishes.