Squad Leader Archive
Thread: FEEDBACK: The Group Leader Issue
Sylow wrote:
So how is removing the GL limitation helping out the SL profession any?
It allows several SLs in one group to feel useful. Under the current system, for example a pistoleer/MSL, when not groupleader (perhaps there is already a MSL leading the group) is reduced to only being a pistoleer.
The devs want to draw more people into the profession. To make this possible, people must be able to team more flexibly, the one-SL-per-group is indeed a hard limit on the number of SL in game who can be useful, no other profession has a limit like that.
With 8-man groups, there are never too many SL's laying around. Only time I've had 2 in a group is when Aurek (another MSL on Ahazi)and I were both too lazy to find/form a group of our own, so we stayed in the same group anyway.
Butt if you can only have one group buff at a time, how does this make them useful? I still see littleif anyuse in mutiple SLs.
Uh... may i dare to ask if you ever took the time to read anything which was posted here? The system allows _every_ SL in team to put one group-buff on the team. This indeed means that the team can have a total of 8 buffs active all the time.
This adds up to +150 accuracy, +1000 armour, +150 defence, +50% chance of critical hit, +50 terrain negotiation, +10% on action and mind regeneration and 25% shorter cooldown on all abilities and in the current system can even be achieved by a group of halfway well organized dabblers. (Means, with limited investment in skillpoints.)
This is the reason why we want some restrictive system implemented, the concept with modifiers through every skillbox means that buffing like that in theory would still be possible, but it would require 8 MSLs instead of dabblers. This would be some serious factor in terms of skillpoint costs and would leave the team vulnerable in several aspects, so a pure SL-team would not be the perfect choice. (With the present system, any really dedicated PvP guild will have SL in almost any non-jedi player in the close future. And if you consider this unlikely, take a look around, speak with the grinders... they are already now working on getting a bit of SL into their characters to they are ready to go when the system hits life...)
Message Edited by Sylow on 09-08-2005 05:13 PM
HzGuderian wrote:
1 - leadership confusion... ( MY opinion is that leadership has NOTHING to do with your template)
That is an important point. Anyone from Ahazi especially should know this (possibly on other servers, I don't play on any others though aside from a random toon on Bria). Of the major Imperial leaders, none have been Squad Leaders.
!
Yes I have read, but I also have read parts where only 1 SL group buff works at a time, I might have read it wrong but it seemed that in total only worked at any time, my mistake.
Sylow wrote:
Uh... may i dare to ask if you ever took the time to read anything which was posted here? The system allows _every_ SL in team to put one group-buff on the team. This indeed means that the team can have a total of 8 buffs active all the time.
Message Edited by LiakyK on 09-08-2005 11:19 AM
KJFett3 wrote:
SL helps me do my job much better even now.
I know. I'm not necessarily trying to argue their point. The SL not needing to be GL grates on me as much as any of the vet SL's. Just trying to look on the bright side of things.
As a side note, with the new bonuses and buffs, SL's won't have trouble getting the groups to pass them GL. If a group says no, you don't wnat to lead them anyway. They're a bunch of morons.
You are right, many of my "leadership tools" envolve Macros with /sys. Its how I keep teh squad together in combat and keep them aware of what I am seeing and wanting in keeping them alive. Staying in a group that won't make me GL is just asking for a /instantclone request.
HzGuderian wrote:
KJFett3 wrote:
SL helps me do my job much better even now.
I know. I'm not necessarily trying to argue their point. The SL not needing to be GL grates on me as much as any of the vet SL's. Just trying to look on the bright side of things.
As a side note, with the new bonuses and buffs, SL's won't have trouble getting the groups to pass them GL. If a group says no, you don't wnat to lead them anyway. They're a bunch of morons.
ok
when i said minority it is from my perspective, i said this because:
A- no SL i had ever heard of was in favor of this.
B- on TC not yet have i found anyone who thinks that this is good code. i've been sharing my abilities with MSL* and other proffs and they are all like " wow that does suck, i hope they change that, i can see a whole can of worms they've opened with that change"soon followed by "i guess i'll be grinding my alt up squadleader" < read that part again, its a crystal ball.
furthermore:
it matters not, there are far more game breaking bugs introduced with SL in this patch. all i want are those bugs to be fixed. some of the old code (gl and sl restriction code) will fix most of these problems. they are NOT going to make up a new system of SL ranks or whatever.
even furthermore:
i cannot see the msl in the group not being the group leader, if some leetzor dude does not want to give up gl to me to let me do one of my most important abilities i'm gonna say "later dood". this of course has NEVER happened to me in game, and i care not to play with such a baby. then again i play with people who understand not only their proff, but everyone elses and knows what i can do for the group.
Im not in a flaming mood today lol. And the stacking scares me, that skills can be stacked.
Also a sorry from my side... my reaction was way too harsh, thanks you for not reacting badly on it. Anyways, all reports i get from TC confirm that those buffs can be applied, the only limitation is that the same buff can not be put on somebody for several times.
Hmm, i thought that for a long time, too. But with the system of ObsidianWrath, it even works without further limits... by requiring MSL for the full power of the buffs, few people will be aready to invest this ammount of skillpoints into them. This way, the abilities will be brought into scale by default without requiring the group leader requirement. (I still want GL requirement on a few abilities, but most of them indeed can be free for the complete team.)
Im glad I have earned enough respect on my server that when I ask for lead, no one will argue. way back when I did PvP more often I didnt even have to ask, they just threw me lead. I havent been out and about as much, but people will give me lead when I ask for it.
captiansarcasmo wrote:
i cannot see the msl in the group not being the group leader, if some leetzor dude does not want to give up gl to me to let me do one of my most important abilities i'm gonna say "later dood". this of course has NEVER happened to me in game, and i care not to play with such a baby. then again i play with people who understand not only their proff, but everyone elses and knows what i can do for the group.
KJFett3 wrote:
Staying in a group that won't make me GL is just asking for a /instantclone request.
ROFLYeah, I gonna put that into my retreat /sys msg
"Instantclone in 7 second. Prepare to retreat or die here!"
And Captainsarcasmo conformid that the /sys msg is still tied to the groupleader ship on TC, I think they will not change it since I guess it somewho sticks together with the chat-system of SWG and with groupleader ship you have admin on the temporary groupchat allowing you to do /sys msg on the groupmembers screen.
None of the current SL will have problems to get groupleader anyway, and so far it looks like the dabblers wont be interestd in the "dangerous" skill trees (see The beginning of the New SL Dabbler Guide - we 'll be able to just copy and past that for the new dabblers questions or sticky it in a new FAQ). Just get ready for the flood of dabblers and powergamers.
And a little bit bragging Heinz, I've been playing with 2MSL and one SL dabbler(basebuster toon) + myself as MSL once in one group
.
Sylow wrote:
Bard profession, i hear you calling... may i have a bagpipe, please?
you don't want to lead your group
you do want to lead your squad
how exactly is your squad and your group different in this case? Looks to me like you wantone side of a coin without the other.
If they're dead-set on removing it and allowing multiple effective SL's in a group, then change our name to "tactician" or something.
Yeraze wrote:
Well, i've read most of the posts and mulled the concept over. I have to agree, SL's need a GL Requirement.
If they're dead-set on removing it and allowing multiple effective SL's in a group, then change our name to "tactician" or something.
We already have that title, or your mean "Squad Tactician"
