Squad Leader Archive
Thread: MORE DEV ADVICE: Here we go again ... Fixing the BH / JEDI system.
Darth_Sushi wrote:
Aye, but what if it is intentional?
ObsidianWrath wrote:
I don't want to see SL/BH hybrids using my profession in a way that was never intended to "one-shot" Jedi and such.
If it is intentional, then SOE is more of "teh suck" than I thought.
HoMeLeSs_OnE wrote:
+++++laughs at the PWNZOR bh kids crying++++++
SO TELL ME... how many BH right now are BH/SL on live!
Great post original poster, the new SL buffs are great for high end content like dwb and such, and here the BH kids want to have the skills so they can FOTM +Gives the finger+
By the way...
Okay... wait a minute, I'm really confused right now.
*Exactly* what is it that's so overpowered about a BH/ SL combo? Last I heard it was the use of SL buffs with rifles that was causing a problem right?
Seems to me that Bounty Hunters - being able to initiate PvP - brought this to light, but it certainly doesn't strike me that it's the Bounty Hunter portion of the equation that's causing an imbalance.
Where's your proposal to mini-nerf SL buffs with regards to riflemen?
WTH? I'm not following this logic at all. =\
So, it's okay if both a BH and Jedi use doc buffs? It's okay if they use entertainer or any other buffs in the game, and... it's even okay for a Jedi to use SL buffs during a Jedi/ BH fight, but a BH shouldn't be able to use them? He or she shouldn't be able to group with his or her droids or pets and therefore gain the advantages inherent? And all this because rifleman skills are seriously overpowered when used in conjunction with SL buffs?
Wha....?? =?
BadKarma777 wrote:
Okay... wait a minute, I'm really confused right now.
*Exactly* what is it that's so overpowered about a BH/ SL combo? Last I heard it was the use of SL buffs with rifles that was causing a problem right?
Seems to me that Bounty Hunters - being able to initiate PvP - brought this to light, but it certainly doesn't strike me that it's the Bounty Hunter portion of the equation that's causing an imbalance.
Where's your proposal to mini-nerf SL buffs with regards to riflemen?
WTH? I'm not following this logic at all. =\
So, it's okay if both a BH and Jedi use doc buffs? It's okay if they use entertainer or any other buffs in the game, and... it's even okay for a Jedi to use SL buffs during a Jedi/ BH fight, but a BH shouldn't be able to use them? He or she shouldn't be able to group with his or her droids or pets and therefore gain the advantages inherent? And all this because rifleman skills are seriously overpowered when used in conjunction with SL buffs?
Wha....?? =?
There are reports on the Jedi forums of single-buffed Bounty Hunter/ Squad Leaders opening up on Jedi Defenders, with Force Aura running, doing 2900 damage in the first shot. That's clearly unbalanced, in favor of the Bounty Hunter.
My proposal regarding SL nerfs can be found here, since you wanted to be a jerk about it. Specific PVP balances are not the point of this thread. This thread specifically addresses the "reported" imbalance between Bounty Hunters and Jedi. Other people are currently handling the most up to date SL / PVP balance issues, and they are quite intelligent and capable. I don't need to rehash that debate on this thread, where it doesn't belong. Oh, and by the way ... that last proposal was implemented as a preliminary nerf against dabblers getting full-power buffs, so you can stop accusing me.
As for your question, which jumps logic paths in order to support your own argument, you are "vaguely" correct as to what this proposal is about. Doctor Buffs are universal, and designed in a capacity that granting them to a solo combatant does not destroy the essence of Doctor. "Hey, Doc, patch me up! I gotta go fight someone!" is completely logical, where as "Hey, I'm gonna LEAD myself into battle using this TACTIC! Hey, ME! Obey this order!" is completely illogical, and an exploit of the Squad Leader Profession.
Secondly, NPC's do not form Squads. Squad Leaders are leaders of PLAYERS, as has always been a part of our charter and mission statement. Self-buffing SL "one-man-armies" completely destroy the purpose of this profession. There are no reports of "Jedi / Squad Leader" dabblers, nor are there reports of Jedi "exploiting" the system in any way. Further, there is no evidence to suggest that a Jedi with the SL buffs is remotely as powerful as a Bounty Hunter who has them, and I would challenge you to prove otherwise with hard numbers and facts.
This debate arose because there are Bounty Hunters doing 2900 damage in single-shot "alpha strike" attacks against Jedi in Test Center, and that's completely unacceptable. It has nothing to do with Rifleman, so please get your facts straight before slinging accusations.
"Wha ... ?" back at you.
Message Edited by ObsidianWrath on 10-17-200505:56 PM
Message Edited by ObsidianWrath on 10-17-2005 05:57 PM
You know how much this sucks? One of the classes I have been hoping NOT to suck in this game is squad leader.
SamousNemo wrote:
The biggest flaw I have with this proposal is that a Jedi could keep the bonuses of a SL, whereas a Bounty Hunter would lose them. Yes, I realize that a Bounty Hunter has the ability to choose his fights, but I'd rather not go back to the days of pre-CU "buff watching" whereas the only chance a hunter had was when his target was at 400 HAM
When the GTEF system was first removed, a BH or Jedi grouped with a SL was regarded as ungrouped as soon as combat was initiated. This prevented a single SL from constantly spamming the "form up" command to break any dizzy/KDs foran entire group of BH or Jedi. I'm not entirely sure how the current bounty TEF system works, but I know it's designed to promote 1v1 combat. I'd much rather see a situation in which SL buffs on both sides were removed as soon as combat is initiated.
If need be, I'd support the same being done with Doc buffs
Either way, a solution needs to be found. Yes, leaving SL buffs on both sides would allow either to group and receive the benefits of a SL. However, it would be much easier for 8 BH/SL hybrids to group/buff before their individual hunts than it would be for a Jedi/SL to group with 7 other SLs
I was wondering when we would hear from the Bounty Hunter Correspondent. Now we just need the Jedi Correspondent to post.Now, in basic theory ... if I had to choose between the proposal that "all SL buffs drop from both parties at the onset of a BH TEF" and letting it go live as it is currently ... I'd back your theory. However, I still believe that mine is more logical from the standpoint of defending the purity of Squad Leader as a profession, and you need to understand that *that* is my primary goal. I would argue that it isn't fair that a Doctor should be able to help his friend out with buffs before a fight, but that I cannot if the Jedi is in my group for legitimate purposes, with a legitimate advantage. I can't help him after the fight starts, where as a BH/SL could constantly change his buff around and (possibly) completely dominate the Jedi. If the BH strikes when I've put a buff on the Jedi that helps him tank a Krayt, but offers virtually NO help against a BH at all ... I can't change that buff and update it to give him a tactical edge. I still think that the BH's First Strike capability negates this perceived advantage.
Hopefully the Devs will select the best choice, regardless of who they agree with. I value your contribution, and commentary.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
Well, they're pushing this out without concern about this issue. Which is either really "good" for BH's or really is going to end up sucking for SL's.
I dunno. I sure hope they're not.
Message Edited by ObsidianWrath on 10-17-2005 06:27 PM
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
Well, they're pushing this out without concern about this issue. Which is either really "good" for BH's or really is going to end up sucking for SL's.
We'll see how it hits live.
Has anyone seen a report of a BH one shotting a Jedi since the SL fix that corrected buffs not dropping properly? Or is everyone still foaming at the mouths from the broken-buffs screenshots?
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
Well, they're pushing this out without concern about this issue. Which is either really "good" for BH's or really is going to end up sucking for SL's.
We'll see how it hits live.
Has anyone seen a report of a BH one shotting a Jedi since the SL fix that corrected buffs not dropping properly? Or is everyone still foaming at the mouths from the broken-buffs screenshots?
Shhh don't bring logic into a forum debate..I mean c'mon what ya thinking
