Squad Leader Archive
Thread: REVAMP FOCUS: PvP and the BH / Jedi War
Sythe1 wrote:
Will you stop will the OMG REMOVE BH MISSIONs... i swear drop jedi...
When all you can is to compose a few flaming sentences with bad grammar I fail to see any communication skills or decent arguments to support your cause. Overall you appear less than an adult in my eyes, more interested in fighting for his diminished Ego in a computer game or in a game forum, than working for a balanced and entertaining game.
Therefore I could care less about your or your fellow clown’s opinions.
If you cannot add to the discussion at hand, do not post at all, as it do little but ruin your credibility.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-20-2005 11:33 AM
BHs Are taking SLers with them, and the SL boosts are working while fighting Jedi.
This is the overpowering factor.
Which is best countered by BH TEF cancelling all SL buffs on both parties.
KiIIgore wrote:
BHs Are taking SLers with them, and the SL boosts are working while fighting Jedi.
This is the overpowering factor.
So sick of this.- This Jedi/bh BS is really killing the game. remove the missions, remove the jedi from the gcw. they are jedi, jedi are metion to uphold this peace, the sith are for killing and war...there arent any player sith now is there?
i dont want sl nerfed after it actually can fight now, why should i give up the one chance to be able to stand up to the jedi? who cares what the bh's do with it. play the profession the way you want to, and let others do the same. there isnt any need for anymore drama...and jus another reason why i sit in my y8 and watch the frieghters go by...OH WAIT I CANT ITS BUGGED....sigh
The original skill point systems idea was to be able to create your individual template appropriate to your character and playstyle, BUT when multiple BH group up to gain the advantage of multiple SL buffs to hunt jedi, this is against the original concept of the BH/jedi game as 1vs1 as well as it is "bypassing" the BH/jedi TEF, thus in fact close to being an "exploit".
Also we are not trying to "nerf" our own profession but we are still researching if a balance is need and for this we need reliable test data and appropriate descriptions of the test setup, as well as all involved templates and abilities.
There are two abilities which are involved in the those high damage shots and that are mostly paint target ( +15%damage to target for the next 30 seconds) and called shot (+ 110% damage to the next attack to target).
Both together can generate a damage boost of + 140% damage to one attack (see my test data).
In conjuction with the high damage shots of the rifleman and the BH these lead to very high damage shots.
Still:
- Called Shot + High Damage Shot = 0 damage + 2x 1900 = 3800 damage
High Damage Shot + High Damage Shot = 1900 + 1900 = 3800 damage
If Called Shot does NOT significantly increases the damage of his next shot, the squad leader himself would be better off in using an other high damage shot rather than using called shot.
So although the damage over time using these abilities might be balanced, the damage done in one hit is not. Just lowering Calledshots damage modifier will make called shot close to useless, since there would be no benefit anymore for the SL to use this ability.
Now this is where we have to see, how "objective" these test circumstances are and depending on that we might have to look for an alternate option.
Last Ditch has a high miss ratio and to do high damage you have to be very low on health. These two things are already in the game to balance Last Ditch.
+5K damage shots are already "possible" with last ditch, when you use a health buff crystal+food+spice and the developers added just for this reason that high miss ration into last ditch. Most BH don not use the last ditch method exactly because of its high miss ration and your certain death if you miss with it.
Also last ditch is realy "last ditch". Its like a kamikaze flight into a ship, but jumping out of the plane short before you crash. If you aimed well you hit it, and the ship goes down, but in both cases you still have to survice the crash into the water and the sharks, so everything conjunction with last ditch has to be looked upon very carefully.
It is truely a "legendary" story to tell "I last ditched somebody with 25k", but for that one "legendary" story to tell you had to clone a billions time because you missed or timed it to late.
Yep-- a summary at it's best. lol
ObsidianWrath wrote:
HarlequinMK19 wrote:
Yes, and you have plenty of solo-skills to choose from If Squad Leader wasn't suddenly contributing tothe ability of the Bounty Hunter to kill Jedi, YOU WOULD NOT EVEN BE HERE TALKING ABOUT THIS. You cannot say this to the contrary. You want these new skills because you know they can help you, yet Squad Leader was in this game for how long? You, like so many other of your ilk are only here "defending" Squad Leader because you want to use it so that you canbe uber. If none of these skills could help your BH-ing at all...you wouldn't give a flying crap about Squad Leader, so don't pretend to be this "freedom fighter" crusadingagainst the tyranny of ObsidianWrath. Your ends here are completely selfish ones...asare mine, however, I'm being selfish in the sake of balance. You're being selfish in the sake of "Waaaaaaah!!! Make me uber!" There are plenty of BH's out there who manage to kill full template Jedi without these Squad Leader buffs, so if they can do it, then it comes down to a matter of personal skill. Don't pervert an entire profession into something it's not supposed to be just because you suck.
Quoted for emphasis.
This needs to be posted on the header of Squad Leader's forum in bold red text ... because that is ultimately what it all boils down to.
im not a squad leader ... i will state that first ...
but heres my honest to God opinion... who cares if SL's are unbalanced right now ... who CARES if SL's can be used by BH or jedi in the player hunting war .....
even though im a BH i think its sickening how players rant andforum picket to try to keep all other proffessions limited and checked due to the BH vs Jedi conflict ...
other proffessions need to spread their wings too
i have seen squad leaders horribly unuseful for sooo long ( sorry this is my opinion).. the proffession was never seen .. grossly under-represented .. and now that they have some power .. and worth .. people are complaining to get em nerfed ...
i think SOE should leave em ... let the BH and jedi deal with it .. ignore the whines .. and let the squad leaders revel in usefullness and power for a while .. whether they are unbalanced or not ...
the ONLY change i could ever see making things a bit better ...is allowing buffs to remain even if people arent grouped ...this way you wont see squad leader bots running around with jedi and BH to amplify their battle prowess ...last thing i wanna see is afk squad leaders set to /follow jedi or bh
... im happy to see SL's get love in pub 24 ...
BTW .. dont be mistaken by my sig .. although the SL changes are awesome for squadleaders i dont plan on becoming a squadleader ...i dont plan to perpetuate any arguments between SL's and jedi over BH going SL ..i am perfectly content in my MCM/bh fotm heh
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-20-2005 02:16 PM
robpro wrote:
ShadowLightning wrote:
cpotter13 wrote:
One SL should not be limited to only using one enhancement, otherwise SL will be cheesy again.
The SL should be able to group with a BH for normal pvp or pve.
The SL enhancements should BREAK once a BH attacks a jedi he has a mission for, same goes for the jedi
Reason? SL is group assistance..As it stands you cannot assist a jedi or bh during bounty combat, it should stay that way. Also this will still alow SL to enhance themselves..Just dont expect them to stick once you attack a Jedi. Its a SQUADleader anyway..Not a one man army leader.
Why does this "breaking" of buffs keep coming up? If this was the case, then Doctor Buffs and foods should all drop too as soon as the battle starts.I'm going to continue to refer people up in this thread to 's post. He's already answered why the "breaking" can't and won't work.
If the changes ObsidianWrath offer take place ... BHers can still take SL for PvE and normal overt vs overt PvP battles. But it will not help in a 1 v 1 on a Jedi since 1 v 1 does not equal squad.
As mentioned above, if they Jedi has a SL buff from doing his own PvE or non-BH PvP actions and the BH decides to attack him then the BH has to put up with the fact that the buff is on him. BH has the upperhand with the elelment of picking WHEN to attack. If the Jedi is in a Squad Leader lead group. Wait or drop mission.
1 vs 1 does not equal squad for bh or jedi It is posible for 5 bh to get mission on the same jedi. that would equal a squad of 5 bh if they wanted to spend the time getting the same mission for the same jedi and grouping while doing it.
If jedi can have sl buffs and not bh then put there names back on ther terminals and allow 10+ bh to take there mission.
Jedi will allways be in groups because they dont get visibility from it and if they are allowed SL buffs in bh fight they all will have 4 SL grouped with them all the time makeing there defense, accuracy, speed, and dmg way to high for bh to have a chance in }{ell on takeing them down.
Sounds like Obsidian dont know the first thing about any type of ballance. Jedi is allready 1.5 stronger at full template if the jedi has any idea how to play a jedi (ebay/afk grinded jedi excluded). Jedi knew before they became jedi they would be hunted so they agred to it the day they became jedi for the chance to be stronger.
bh first strike ability is to compensate for jedi being 1.5 stronger that is even what the DEV's said in the HoC CHAT when they were talking about removing Jedi names and payouts.
Jedi want there volley fire + double time + call to arms + tactic GOD MODE to fight a solo bh with only doc buffs and food. AFK grinding and ebay is killing this game because of the Jedi it produces that have no clue what there doing and think they are so gimped because they have never played the game.
a master bounty hunter / master squad leader with his droid would = a squad. everyone has the ability to group with a pet / droid / faction NPC and use it as part of there SQUAD in PvE and PvP. saying a bh with this template and pet can not use HALF his template to fight should mean a master lightsaber jedi is not allowed to use a lightsaber. If you can get the skills with the allocated 250 skill points it is a valid template and should not be ristricted from using it against jedi bh missions. Its no different than going jedi for cloak only to sneak up on jedi. everyone is allowed to spend there 250 skill points on whatever they choose and whatever template they come up with. The CU skill stacking system is set up for doing just that stacking different skills to give a benefit to something only to lose something else in return.
No SL buffs for both or SL buffs for both is fair and balanced.
That is rediculous. You want 10 BH on the same mission? You talk about Jedi as if you were an expert.
One, I RARELY ever group
Two, Jedi were meant to be 1.5x stronger, but it never happened. Our defenses are broken, healing is weakest, dmg is weakest, FR is broken, AI is broken, force aura is now broken, we're extremely limited by our broken force pool and still broken regen rates
Three, you assume Jedi stand around fully buffed in group waiting for the BH attack. Not true, most are tired of them wasting our time. I RARELY EVER use doc buffs since they are next to worthless. LET ALONE SL BUFFS.
So you want 10 BH on same missions again because a Jedi MIGHT have SL buffs. ZERO logic in that post. SL buffs shouldn't even be a factor in these really retarded BH vs Jedi duels. Every BH expects us to be an easy kill target for their content, WE'RE NOT.
This system won't last. You have BHers killing 15 Jedi in a row easier than NPCs with ZERO RISK or LOSS right now. 8k dmg shots incapping instantly.
You are forgetting that BH is SUPPOSED to involve strategy. Not just following the arrow, hop off and start shooting like 99% of them do. If they are too tough, wait for them to hit their moment of weakness (which is easy with all the nerfs hitting ONLY us).
That is rediculous. You want 10 BH on the same mission? You talk about Jedi as if you were an expert.
One, I RARELY ever group
Two, Jedi were meant to be 1.5x stronger, but it never happened. Our defenses are broken, healing is weakest, dmg is weakest, FR is broken, AI is broken, force aura is now broken, we're extremely limited by our broken force pool and still broken regen rates
Three, you assume Jedi stand around fully buffed in group waiting for the BH attack. Not true, most are tired of them wasting our time. I RARELY EVER use doc buffs since they are next to worthless. LET ALONE SL BUFFS.
So you want 10 BH on same missions again because a Jedi MIGHT have SL buffs. ZERO logic in that post. SL buffs shouldn't even be a factor in these really retarded BH vs Jedi duels. Every BH expects us to be an easy kill target for their content, WE'RE NOT.
This system won't last. You have BHers killing 15 Jedi in a row easier than NPCs with ZERO RISK or LOSS right now. 8k dmg shots incapping instantly.
You are forgetting that BH is SUPPOSED to involve strategy. Not just following the arrow, hop off and start shooting like 99% of them do. If they are too tough, wait for them to hit their moment of weakness (which is easy with all the nerfs hitting ONLY us).
ok i dont mean to troll ... so im not going to debate you on your points regarding template ...
i also want to say i agree there shouldnt be more than one BH on a jedi at this time
but there is one thing id like to ask you ...
considering the fact the developers gave jedi an alternate slot ...do you think the developers ever intended people with jedi to use those jedi as their main toons?
in response to your statement ( which i have enlarged and underlined to make it easier to pinpoint )... i dont think the developers intendedforjedi to be standing or hangingaround PERIOD ...
manypeople forgot thism they forgot the statements developers made in regards to jedi when the game first came out ..... jediwasnt meant to be a right, i dont think it was meant for everyone.... its a privlaedged character .. it was built for the sole purpose of high end extremely difficult play ... and RP'ing ... it was meant to only be used and seen rarely ...
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-20-2005 02:17 PM
AkodeaDarkwave wrote:
In a mass PvP scale PvP the buffs are way overpowered. The SL will just put it on a macro and have it constantly going. If the SL is helping a jedi then its pointless To fight. SL got fixed but now unbalances the game.
Did you read what the "problematic" and oh so much cursed ability does? If yes, you should know that in mass PvP it's very much worthless.
Message Edited by Sylow on 10-20-2005 10:44 PM
AkodeaDarkwave wrote:
In a mass PvP scale PvP the buffs are way overpowered. The SL will just put it on a macro and have it constantly going. If the SL is helping a jedi then its pointless To fight. SL got fixed but now unbalances the game.
it doesnt unbalance the game ... it really only adds new dimension to PVP .....the problem is BH will always find a template to use to defeat jedi .. and jedi will always have a problem with BH defeating them ...
maybe SOE needs to finally just open the gates full swing .. and take penatly from death due to BH out as well ...or create other elite classes for people to grind .. which would take identical dedication to ones journey towards jedi knight...
or, justend the idea ofone alpha class .. if people dont expect jedi to be alpha they wont carry expectation as to what their template should be either ...and wont carry expectation of what other templates should be ..
please take these posts for what they are .. the ramblings of a non-squad leader ... perhaps my presence here is doing more harm then good .. but id hate to see SL nerfed after seeing SL friends wait so long to be made worthy .....
anyway ive gotten my two cents across .. i wont be posting here anymore, ill go back to my proffessions forums 
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-20-2005 02:10 PM