Squad Leader Archive
Thread: REVAMP FOCUS: PvP and the BH / Jedi War
PvP may be quicker ... yes. but I can see a bad Squad Leader also mess up PvP for a group as well if they don't play it right. I agree though... ifthe Squad Leader of the other group has a great player behind the keyboard. Watch out.
I don't think this issues needs to be directly addressed though on the simple fact that both sides can do it. It's balanced with that fact alone.
My group would get Hate cries all the time when I was on with my healer (MD/MCM.) Always sayin' they would have won if it wasn't for your healer. We always said back... MD/MCM is not a rebellimited profession. Just have tobring one too.
A lot of times PvP get a cry for balance when it's not the system... it's the group members you bring.4 Rifleman/BHers vs2 Melee 1 ranged and a dedicated Healer. My bet is on the group with the healer everytime.
ShadowLightning wrote:
PvP may be quicker ... yes. but I can see a bad Squad Leader also mess up PvP for a group as well if they don't play it right. I agree though... ifthe Squad Leader of the other group has a great player behind the keyboard. Watch out.
I don't think this issues needs to be directly addressed though on the simple fact that both sides can do it. It's balanced with that fact alone.
My group would get Hate cries all the time when I was on with my healer (MD/MCM.) Always sayin' they would have won if it wasn't for your healer. We always said back... MD/MCM is not a rebellimited profession. Just have tobring one too.
A lot of times PvP get a cry for balance when it's not the system... it's the group members you bring.4 Rifleman/BHers vs2 Melee 1 ranged and a dedicated Healer. My bet is on the group with the healer everytime.
Yes it will be balanced that both sides can do it, however even with the Squad Leader defensive buffs any PC can still be one shot (one shot from each groupmenber) killed with as little as3 people in a group, maybe even 2. That is what should be fixed. It won't make PVP very exciting, it willjust become who can hit the other group first.
I'm sure your PVP battles lasted more than 15 seconds if the group sizes were balanced.
And I don't want MSL to become a must have skill to have a decent PVP group like the way MCM uses to be
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The first BH had expressed they were 10 years old after the combat session. I'm not sure if this were true although he did play as an unexperianced BH.
When this BH attaked me I _had_ several SL buffs active on my player. These buffs imediatley failed upon being givena BH-TEF. My group had continued without me, while still being withint 50-100m from my location. They maintained application of various SL buffs during my encounter and not a sinfle time did a SL buff apply to me while the BH-tef were active.
The Bh used snare on a regualr basis and even though it was somewhat of a pain to deal with I felt no threat as if I were being kitted. I do not think +SNARE+ is goig to impact me as much it alludes to - only time will tell though.
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The seconds BH attacked me roughly 30 minutes later while at the same location. He was also a BH/Rifleman and the unfamilar icons with the occasional defaultIcon had made it obvious of the SL abilities.
Not at a single moment did I feel like my character was being overpowerd. I did not nottice any affect seemed gamebreaking.
A gamebreaking ability is not hidden. When it used there's an imediate identification that there's a problem. This had not taken place.
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With this said,
Not a single time didI notice anything which seemed as an issue inrelation to Squadleader buffs as they would apply to BH/Jedi.
I'm sure there's going to be something found that will work outside of the devlopers painted box although it will take time and actuall game play to locate it. The issues with high parameters for dmg had already been adjusted from whatI know.
Squadleader is getting a tremendous build and what was on TC2 seemed to work GREAT!! I look forward to having this build in my future groups.
Thank you for the info,a fewquestions for clairification:
- You said during the first encounter that your SL buffs failed, I assume you mean the current ones on you cleared?
- Did your buffs clear on the second encounter?
- Did the SL buffs clear off the BH on the second encounter?
Again, thank you for the feedback.
1 & 2. All SL buffs on Jedi failed when the BH-tef was activated. While the Jedi, me, was still grouped with a SL who was using SL buffs the BH-tef had prevented any SL buffs from being applied to Jedi.
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
Thank you for the info,a fewquestions for clairification:
- You said during the first encounter that your SL buffs failed, I assume you mean the current ones on you cleared?
- Did your buffs clear on the second encounter?
- Did the SL buffs clear off the BH on the second encounter?
Again, thank you for the feedback.
Wow. lots of info here, so i'll summarize my 2cr of opinion.
1) I agree almost completely with _scout_. For the most part neither BH nor Jedi should be able to pick up SL buffs outside of their template, And SL should be focused on enhancing a group, not a single player. I would be all to happy to see SL buffs drop from both BH and Jedi on the activation of a BH TEF.
as a QFE: the squad leader's focus is on a particular target, which is not the Bh or jedi, and therefore the buffs should drop
This does, however, bring into question whether the BH should be able to use selected abilities in a fight if they have SL as part of their template (paint target, volley fire, and called shot most notably). For balance reasons however i feel that it is best left such that no SL abilities are carried over or usable in a BH/Jedi fight. The issue becomes not really one of balance, but one of a desire for solo power. I dont' see SL this way.
2) The issue presented earlier regarding the jedi buffs dropping over the two fights was interesting. What is especially interesting is that the Jedi felt relatively unthreatened, even though the Bh/SL's that attacked were applying buffs. I assume this is more recent, and possibly due to the change in called shot. inexperience on the part of the BH is also a possibility, though we have no way to know for sure. Nonetheless this is encouraging.
TO ALL THOSE JEDI WHO MAY READ: Do not underestimate the value of force valor. Having been a BH/Rifleman I initiated multiple "alpha strikes" with adv snipershot, none of which were effective. I've heard from guilded jedi that force valor has a higher chance to block as the incoming damage increases, but i'm unsure if this is true or not. Regardless I cannot emphisize enough the value of this ability. Maybe i'm just unlucky, but i know that having a 1.5k+ dmg strike twarted is a thorn in any BH's side, especially since chances are said BH will never get another chance in the fight to pull off a similar attack. To this day as a MSL/MRifleman, i cannot describe the ire i feel towards Force Valor for thwarting so many of my attacks. Get the picture? 
-Grozzer Agoutt
Master Squad Leader
Master Rifleman
Thanks for insight and feedback. This information will be quite useful input for further testing.
mindspat wrote:
Giving more power to a character skill listis the correct direction in which to advance SWG. While each character is made slightly more powerfull there will be a increasingroom of improvementfor other professions to have their skills increased to meet the par of combat. This is the direction whcih we need in the game!!
Squad Leader buffs should be considered "active support", kinda like Healing. The buffs/effects should be disabled as soon as a BH attack is initialized, and re-enabled after the TEF drops.
BHis for solo missions, SQL is for multiplayer support.
We do not want "Required Buffs" back in the game. Constantly chasing down a doctor or entertainer pre-cu was what was ruining the game for me.
If this is not done, Squad Leader will most definitely be nerfed.
TheBH / Jediwar is a nerfing spiral of doom. Whatever grows attractive to either side, will most likely be nerfed. The Force professions only nerf themselves though, but if there's anything nice to dabble in, Bounty Hunters will take it, and it will cause it to be nerfed.
There's only one final solution: Removing the BH vs Jedi system and put in something that do not involve player templates instead.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-19-2005 03:19 PM
MsNiL wrote:
Squad Leader buffs should be considered "active support", kinda like Healing. The buffs/effects should be disabled as soon as a BH attack is initialized, and re-enabled after the TEF drops.
BH is for solo missions, SQL is for multiplayer support.
We do not want "Required Buffs" back in the game. Constantly chasing down a doctor or entertainer pre-cu was what was ruining the game for me.
If this is not done, Squad Leader will most definitely be nerfed.
The BH / Jedi war is a nerfing spiral of doom. Whatever grows attractive to either side, will most likely be nerfed. The Force professions only nerf themselves though, but if there's anything nice to dabble in, Bounty Hunters will take it, and it will cause it to be nerfed.There's only one final solution: Removing the BH vs Jedi system and put in something that do not involve player templates instead.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-19-2005 03:19 PM
Will you stop will the OMG REMOVE BH MISSIONs... i swear drop jedi...
Sythe1 wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
Squad Leader buffs should be considered "active support", kinda like Healing. The buffs/effects should be disabled as soon as a BH attack is initialized, and re-enabled after the TEF drops.
BH is for solo missions, SQL is for multiplayer support.
We do not want "Required Buffs" back in the game. Constantly chasing down a doctor or entertainer pre-cu was what was ruining the game for me.
If this is not done, Squad Leader will most definitely be nerfed.
The BH / Jedi war is a nerfing spiral of doom. Whatever grows attractive to either side, will most likely be nerfed. The Force professions only nerf themselves though, but if there's anything nice to dabble in, Bounty Hunters will take it, and it will cause it to be nerfed.There's only one final solution: Removing the BH vs Jedi system and put in something that do not involve player templates instead.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 10-19-2005 03:19 PM
Will you stop will the OMG REMOVE BH MISSIONs... i swear drop jedi...
Its the worst thing about this game. More exploits, dev time, whining and nerfs come from this than even standard PVP.
