Squad Leader Archive

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_scout_ wrote:

• When a BH engages a Jedi target, both loose their SL buff.

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Then also their Doc and Food/Drink Buffs. They don't have Doc in template nor do they have Chef.

Remove them too.

I know most of what i posted here dont really make sense to many. Im not good at expressing myself through writing. not good at writing/spelling period. I apoligize for missleading posts.

I came here to show an unbalanced system with squad leader / bounty hunter template in the jedi vs bounty hunter WAR. many allready had seen it expecially with rifleman sniper shot in the mix.

ObsidianWrath post wanting to remove the unbalanced squad leader buffs/templates with bounty hunter was right on the money untill he mentioned leaving the jedi unbalanced against the bounty hunters. As a bounty hunter of 2 years i will defend my Profession and look out for what is good for the bounty hunter comunity just as ObsidianWrath is doing with squad leader butthere is 1 thing i look at above my bounty hunter profesion and that is balance. This is a game not real life. there needs to be balance to be fair and fun.I accept that jedi should be and can be with the right player/template stronger than a bounty hunter. my main argument with ObsidianWrath is if the jedi can benifit from the squad leader buffs in a bh vs jedi fight it should be balanced and work both ways or no way at all.

I am sorry if i came out sounding like i was only looking to exploit the system when i wasreally trying to show that it was not balanced.

a well balanced game can be alot more fun than an unbalanced game set on real life profesions.

I hope Squad Leader gets everything from the revamp. It will make for some really fun GCW battles and PvE dungeons and i hope if anything gets nerfed from it that its only only to preventthe bounty hunter vs jedi from exploiting it in there personal war or allowing 1 of the 2 to become way overpowered against the other.

/salute ObsidianWrath

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robpro wrote:

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ObsidianWrath wrote:

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HarlequinMK19 wrote:

Yes, and you have plenty of solo-skills to choose from If Squad Leader wasn't suddenly contributing tothe ability of the Bounty Hunter to kill Jedi, YOU WOULD NOT EVEN BE HERE TALKING ABOUT THIS. You cannot say this to the contrary. You want these new skills because you know they can help you, yet Squad Leader was in this game for how long? You, like so many other of your ilk are only here "defending" Squad Leader because you want to use it so that you canbe uber. If none of these skills could help your BH-ing at all...you wouldn't give a flying crap about Squad Leader, so don't pretend to be this "freedom fighter" crusadingagainst the tyranny of ObsidianWrath. Your ends here are completely selfish ones...asare mine, however, I'm being selfish in the sake of balance. You're being selfish in the sake of "Waaaaaaah!!! Make me uber!" There are plenty of BH's out there who manage to kill full template Jedi without these Squad Leader buffs, so if they can do it, then it comes down to a matter of personal skill. Don't pervert an entire profession into something it's not supposed to be just because you suck.

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Quoted for emphasis.

This needs to be posted on the header of Squad Leader's forum in bold red text ... because that is ultimately what it all boils down to.

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The funny thing is im not here defending the new Squad leader changes and really i have no intentiong of going squad leader. Read my SIG that is what i have been for a really long long time if i was going to go FOTM i would have went master combat medic a long long time ago. sorry you cant see my sarcasm im most of my posts here regarding going mbh/msl i dont use the

Yes...you are defending them. You went off screaming at ObsidianWrath for defending her own profession...despite the fact that you claim to notbe remotely interested in it. If you'reMr. BH+Carbineer for life, why are you even posting here? I'll tell you why. BH's on test center have discovered that Jedi can be killed inone shot if a certain Squad Leader buff is applied...and you want the ability to have that buff. And please...I know what type of Skill Pointinvestment a BH/Carbineer takes..you have plenty of room to pick up some SLskills if you want.

/sarcasm on /sarcasm off

I'm not buying this for a second.

but then you chime in saying jedi should be god with sl buffs and bh should get craped on. thats when it became a balance issue with bh vs jedi and noting to do with squad leader.

No. I never once said this in the entire length of my post and the fact that you are now lying about something I said makes you lose any credibility you might have had (which wasn't much to begin with). I hated Jedi pre-CU (even though I was one) because I felt it was vastly overpowered...however, that is NOT the case anymore. Jedi has received nerf after nerf (and I silently grit my teeth because I'm not a whineybiz-natch) while I've watched BHget increasingly better(and rightfully so,considering how bad BH had it for a long while). Don't even pretend to know my thoughts on Jedi and especially don't lie and/or twist my words around because it makes you look more desperate than you already are.

Is it to much to ask for balance im pro-squad leader getting there revamp but not at the expense of unballancing what we had without it. you are all for allowing jedi to become stronger with the new squad leader at the expense of weakening the bounty hunters

No. It's not too much to ask for balance. Melee (not Jedi) is still a vastly superior fighting style to ranged in this game (in my opinion, however, I cangive plenty of reasons for this belief), and I complain about that all the time. You're not asking for balance though. You're asking for, One-Shot, One-Kill so you can get your PvP rating higher. If defensive Squad Leader buffs can offset your 5000+ damage sniper shot, then I will yield and say both Jedi and BH should be able to keep their buffs. That, therein is balance...a far cry from what you're suggesting. BTW, please see ObsidianWrath's "Pre-K Math" lesson...it's very informative.

balance squad leader across the board without overpowering jedi and screwing over bh that is what i want

Said it before, and I'll say it again...itsure doesn't sound like it.

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Message Edited by HarlequinMK19 on 10-18-2005 11:53 AM

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ShadowLightning wrote:

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_scout_ wrote:

• When a BH engages a Jedi target, both loose their SL buff.

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Then also their Doc and Food/Drink Buffs. They don't have Doc in template nor do they have Chef.

Remove them too.

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I realy start to like this phrase ( and I think you are mistaken me for a BH) but:

You're missing the point.

• (a) A squad leader buffs have their origin in the SL leading the group. < - > Doctor Buffs have their origin in a doctor enhancing your characters "physical" condition. (Yeah we might have now the multi SL thing and yes I too was against it, and a lot of balancing issues would not be around if they had left it to one SL per group but lets skip this part of the discussion)
  
  In my original post I also described an "in character" justification why a SL buff could/should drop form the jedi as well.
  
  The commands (buffs) of a squad leader on a jedi were origniall adressed to reach a different objective (what ever they were doing), as soon as the BH ambushes the jedi the tactical situation has changed, thus a new command should/would have been uttered by the Squad leader, but the TEF is already preventing the SL to utter (apply) a new command (a new buff) to the jedi in his group.
  
  Although all Squad Leaders like and want to protect their groupmembers, they are already clearly locked out of this 1 vs. 1 conflict, just like all other (healing/buffing( profession, who could interact during a BH/Jedi TEF.



• (b) A doctors buff have a total different "buff scale" to their buffs, Im not against any buffing at all, but a doctors buff so far gives only an additional edge to a character/template, while the SL buffs and especially multiple of them can seriously beef up the characters combat abilities.



• (c) We have so far no hard data on how effective the defense group buffs are, so we cant realy say one or multiple SL buffs are balanced on a jedi, when the BH has no SL buffs. Im also not looking at a single SL defense buff on a jedi but with the emphasis that a jedi could be under the influence of multiple SL defense/offense buffs. With no difference between MSL and dabblers in the buffs strength you might see more SL buffs on group because of the increasing number of dabblers, who might drop the CM 4000 (because of the increasing action cost) for a line of SL to get some offensive or defensive buff, everytime they are grouped, for them self - and with that the grouped jedi.



• (d) Yes, I agree the BH has the ability to pick the time when he attacks and doing this wisely is the difference between a dead and a living BH, but referring to Obsidianwraths original post where it should prevent a BH to initiate a BH/jedi TEf while grouped, this would limit a BH to attack a jedi, although in a not very honorable way, on the battlefield, where the jedi is in fact most vulnerale.



• (e) Preventing the SL to buff himself while not grouped, as well as removing SL buffs from both profession during a BH/jedi TEF do not change anything in the current BH/jedi conflict, leaving all balancing issues to be worked amoung those two profession without "abusing" any SL abilities, nor "polluting" the original squad leader spirit.



• (Z) Personally I would just like to get rid of the BH and Jedi out of here, but for balancing reasons and to prevent the BH from whining here in the SL forum "why they lost the SLs buffs upon a BH TEF and the jedi not", Im willing to deny BOTH of them our SL buffs.

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Loki_Ashaman wrote:

ROFLMAO. ShadowLightning, sorry to have to inform you of this, but _scout_ is a SL and has been for along time. He's been quiet here because he recently became a corr and has been settling in at that position,

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robpro wrote:

its not bad critical shot doing about 1400 PvP dmg per shot with called shot and 1100 only using volley fire. Thats alot better than the 300-500 PvP dmg with out the buffs using mbh/mc template.

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When you can incap someone in 3-4 shots and have the advantage of surprise, it doesn't look good for the home team.

I'm not one to call nerf sight unseen, but my Jedi is gonna take a good week off when this goes live to let the dust settle. We've seen some pretty nasty combo's so far. My bet is that more than a few are still sitting in someones back pocket waiting for it to go live.

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ShadowLightning wrote:
Thank you for the information and my appoligies to _Scout_ (a)

This whole BH/Jedi thing is really aggovating me (b)

... with the fact that many keep sayin that SL buffs need to drop when a Bounty fight starts is just wrong. (c)

I am 100% behind ObsidianWrath with that BHers can not attack their mark if grouped (d)

and SL can't use ANY skills if not grouped (e).

I am going to ask an Honest question though that I might be missing calculating:
How often do BHers really think they are going to run into a mark that has 2+ SL in the group? (f)

The more I read the more it sounds like BHers are expecting Jedi to be in the group with 7 other SLers like everytime they get to their mark. (f)

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(a) No worries, "apolgy accepted captian ... " uh wrong quote , honestly, I was ROFL so no worries .

(b) Me to, but I have a thick skin, that helps.

(c) That's what Im not sure about, especially since we have no hard data so far, but for the sake of avoiding this whole BH/Jedi conflict, let's deny them both our SL buffs but thats just my personal opinion.

(d) Well as I stated the BH not able to initiate a TEF while grouped, only to prevent BHs to use SL abilities is a slightly oversized gun to kill this rabbit. Abusing a SLs to group with a BH, or BH/SL dabblers to gain the benefit of one or multiple SL buffs could be easily prevent, when the buffs just drop when the BH/Jedi TEF is initiated.

(e) That's what a large portion of the veteran SL community wants.

(f) Do not underestimate the FOTM and the dabblers. On live right now close to everybody is running aroud with the CM 4000 tree. A MBH + Master any ranged profession is able to aquire 2 trees in SL. In addition CM 4000 costs 78 skill points which is exact the same as one tree in SL. The tactics and the stragety have very very good looking buffs in them and Im partially sure we will see a lot of dabblers who will give up the healing from CM 4000 for one of these two lines. With a total of 4 buffs in a two trees, you only need 4 dabblers to gain the benefit from 4 groupbuffs.

This whole dabbling in SL and using groupbuffs realy realy needs a scale to differ between a MSL and a dabbler, who is dabbling there just for the buffs, when grouped.

With the postponing of the publish I still hope that they will implement the leaderships skill mods for either strength/duration or/and range of the SL buffs to make it worth mastering this professions.

With all these buffs around all the trees and no different between a master and a dabbler, I foresee us going the way of the pistoleer becoming close to a pure dabbling profession .

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ShadowLightning wrote:

How often do BHers really think they are going to run into a mark that has 2+ SL in the group?

The more I read the more it sounds like BHers are expecting Jedi to be in the group with 7 other SLers like everytime they get to their mark. I highly think this will not be the case.

BTW, I have not been able to test it... has anyone check to know if they current even stay ON when a BH attacks a Jedi? To me... the Jedi (and BH if not the SL) receving the TEF would break the "same status" rule of buffs and be broken anyway... giving everyone what they stupidly are wanting anyway

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With the postponing of the publish I still hope that they will implement the leaderships skill mods for either strength/duration or/and range of the SL buffs to make it worth mastering this professions.

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Duration i don't mind so much. If buffs break when getting out of range or leaving the team, the duration is fine in my book.

On range i also seei see littlechance forvariation, the buffs need to have at least 75 meters range, better 100, so low level SLs still have a chance to really help their team with the buffs. Reducing range below that can easily make this impossible.

On the other hand, i wouldn't go far over the 100 meters, either. It just sounds like a sensible range, if somebody drifts off further, loosing the buff is a fair sanction.

Anyways, both changes above would not affect the SL dabbler himself too much. He always is in range of his buffs and lower duration would just lead to shorter delays in his auto-repeat macro. Scaling the actual strength of the buffs is the only way to go in this case.

No matter how many skillpoints invested in the profession, you'd always get adequate revenue, i couldn't imagine any better approach.

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I do think we need to push more for Leadership to affect group buffs, as dabbler vs master power will have an indirect affect on this issue.

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/agree

/sign

/QFE

Message Edited by Sylow on 10-18-200505:35 PM

Message Edited by Sylow on 10-18-2005 05:35 PM

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Sylow wrote:

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I do think we need to push more for Leadership to affect group buffs, as dabbler vs master power will have an indirect affect on this issue.

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/agree

/sign

/QFE

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/agree