Squad Leader Archive
Thread: A New Hope A Conversation with Thunderheart
Thanks Irott. This was a very helpful post
irott wrote:
Very nice to see your name here TH.
/salute
The last time we had any dev involvement in our direction was on 8-22-03. If anyone remembers, that was the first big push of changes for each profession. Here is what Holocron posted for us in that thread:
Squad Leader
We’re looking at adding a fairly large amount of functionality to Squad Leader, and because of that, it won’t make this update. The stuff we’re looking at:
· Follow Me:
o Everyone in the group enqueues /follow on the leader
· In formation: Using code similar to AI's followOffset: the group follows the leader in column, wedge or line formation
· Hold Fire & Fire At Will
o No one in the group is allowed to initate combat, although they can defend and can defend vs. anyone attacking a member of their group
· Group Attack
o Ayone not already in combat will enqueue an attack vs. the leader's look-at target
· Cease Fire
o Everyone in the group enqueues /peace.
· Assign Position:
o The group leader can assign group members to "Front Line", "Support" or "Ranged" squads. Group Attack, Cease Fire, Group Cover, OffensiveStance, DefensiveStance, Hold Fire and Fire At Will can then be directed to these individual squads
· OffensiveStance
o Gives the group a temporary bonus to damage. The bigger the group the better the bonus, lowers defense.
· DefensiveStance
o Gives the group a temp bonus to defense. The bigger the group the better the bonus, lowers damage.
(i.e. Assign your tanks to "Front Line" and enqueue DefensiveStance on the front line group, then assign the ranged guys to "Ranged" and enqueue OffensiveStance on that group, etc.)
· Group Heal
o No, it doesn't heal the group: It changes the look-at target of anyone assigned to a support position to the leader's look-at target, and gives the system message "You have been ordered to heal ". Used by the leader to tell his healers who to heal. So you still have to push the button yourself (because he might not need a heal - he might need /firstAid or the like.
· Group Cover
o Enqueues a /assist for the group vs. the leader's look-at target. i.e. if I want everyone to shoot what Dan is shooting, then I look at Dan and enqeue Group Cover.
· Forced March
o Non-combat group burst-run sort of thing. Broken as soon as anyone in the group engages in combat.
· Smoke-em-if-you-got-em
o In a camp, out of combat, everyone in the group gets a mind regen bonus. The bigger the group the bigger the bonus.
Now for good reason many players scoffed at the idea... as it would have turned us into player handlers, controling a group of AFKers. Now a few of the ideas like the smoke em if you got em or the assign position were good but never developed. But this was all posted back in August of last year, and though I know there has been some changes in staff and changes in the games direction, all I really want to know is what does the team think of Squad Leaders and what their place in the game is?
The Squad Leader community knows what they want... it may not all be the same, and some of it may be outright impossible. But we have ideas. The problem is, we don't really know where we fit into this game. Every other profession has its place. Medics heal, entertainers entertain, combat classes fight, Crafters craft and politicians run cities... but what do we do? We lead squads, yet that entertainer or weaponsmith can lead a group of the same size and keep the group going by just using group chat effectively. This is why we are asking the devs to tell us what they think, because although we have our proposals and ideas... we have no idea if they are feasable due to a lack of the solid base of a defined profession.
Another wrench in the gears is our involvment in the GCW... as you might have gathered much of the community is in support of a almost symbiotic relationship for Squad Leaders and the GCW. We have come up with quite a few ideas that involve faction restricted skills and abilities, which we think would make the GCW more fun for everyone, a real war. As posted on the schedule of updates and patches... the GCW revamp comes after the Squad Leader revamp.Are our ideas worthlessif they are related to the GCW? If we even get tied in with the GCW what about neutral Squad Leaders? Should we only concentrate on generic skills that will work in any situation?
If you look at every one of our top 5's we have had over the past months, they all have the same questions. "What does /steadyaim really do?" "What is the +10 leadership bonus on humans do?" etc.... We have been ingame for almost a year now and we still don't truly know what our skills do. It is just a lack of information and we are suffering because of it. We want to enjoy our profession, we want to be effective and be able to contribute to the game, yet in our current state we are wandering around blind searching for our place.
Thank you so much for posting TH, I know the community really apreciates it including myself. Hopefully we can work together toget us what we have always wanted: Purpose.
GamerProX wrote:
Did I say NPC Handlers?
.....
I wasn't talking to you, GamerProX. Hence the TH:. But to answer your question:
Let's say I'm a Master Doctor but there's no one around who wants buffs or needs healing. Does that mean all my skill points have been wasted? If a Bounty Hunter isn't killing someone or something, is his profession worthless? Not always being able to use your skills doesn't make you obsolete.
This is a social game, and Squad Leader is a social class. If you can't A) Meet people you like and join a PA with them; B) Start a PA yourself and convince others to join; or C) Act charismatically enough to convince random strangers to hunt with you, then why are you a Squad Leader? (This is targetted at unguilded, non-factioned SLs, not you specifically.)
So yes, given the power, I would limit the Squad Leader class to people who know how to organize squads and have access to them. There's absolutely no reason why SL should be designed so that Joe Hermit never has to do any leading, instead using faction pets.
And what kind of PA wouldn't use /makeleader on a Master SL during PVP? That's just stupid.
As I see it, you've got about 6 hours to get that In-Concept up /wink
Thunderheart wrote:
Its 10 to 8 and Im still here working and posting =P
go home
/second. when TH gets tired he lets things slip that cause pandamodium.
Barb-Wire wrote:
go home
Do You Need Some Soal?
Yeraze wrote:
My fear is that if I post, it will turn into a flamefest
Message Edited by Jeassa on 04-06-2004 07:49 PM
Group Melee Damage Mitigation & Group Ranged Damage Mitigation sprinkled throughout the tree, culminating at Master Squad Leader where you grant level 3 in both to all members of your group.
Holy crap!
I didn't know we had all of these people in the SL forums. Would be nice if they bothered to post a couple of times. I just /love/ seeing people who never posted on our forums speak for us.
In other words, and I wont be so nice, get the hell out of here.
I don't need a DEV to go 'that's what you guys must want because MaryJane RottenCrotch who isn't even a SL said that is what you wanted.' I don't post on Profession boards that I am not planning on being part of or not allready a part of. I find it disrespectful and rude.
. Incase you don't understand what he is talking about, he is asking for direction from the DEVs. This means you say stuff like 'No' to fortifications and 'yes' to multiple Faction pets. Because we all know it will come down to at the end how much time and effort the DEVs are willing to put into SL for code work and all of that jazz. If 'Calling in Artilery' is to big of a pain in the ass to code then tell us no right away so we can cross it off and try to get a concensus on other things. If you say, 'The DEVs want 5 ideas and only 5 we can put up ideas with a poll and vote on it (shame that we have no control on who can vote... to many jerks out there). Guide-lines, man, Guide-lines.
InfluenzaSWTA wrote:
GamerProX wrote:
Did I say NPC Handlers?
.....
I wasn't talking to you, GamerProX. Hence the TH:. But to answer your question:
Let's say I'm a Master Doctor but there's no one around who wants buffs or needs healing. Does that mean all my skill points have been wasted? If a Bounty Hunter isn't killing someone or something, is his profession worthless? Not always being able to use your skills doesn't make you obsolete.
This is a social game, and Squad Leader is a social class. If you can't A) Meet people you like and join a PA with them; B) Start a PA yourself and convince others to join; or C) Act charismatically enough to convince random strangers to hunt with you, then why are you a Squad Leader? (This is targetted at unguilded, non-factioned SLs, not you specifically.)
So yes, given the power, I would limit the Squad Leader class to people who know how to organize squads and have access to them. There's absolutely no reason why SL should be designed so that Joe Hermit never has to do any leading, instead using faction pets.
And what kind of PA wouldn't use /makeleader on a Master SL during PVP? That's just stupid.
Oh no you dont, the examples you just gave were AWFUL! A Doctor and Bounty Hunter use their skill for almost anything. If both find themselves alone and not in a group, their skills (unlike a Squad Leader) are still useful, BH can protect themself, and Doctor can buff and heal themselves. They dont have to depend on other players for their skills to work. A Squad Leader on the other hand, spends 135 skill points, for skills and powers he cannot use unless he depends on others, and depending on others in a game like this is not always fun.
Sure its a social Profession, so is Dancer and Musician, but they dont depend on other people to preform for them to play their music. They just push a button and start playing. All im asking is for Squad Leader to be fun, other than leading a raiding party or hunting rancors, is that too much to ask?
In no way would I want SL to become astupid copy of Creature Handler, Bah! Yuck! Just give them the power to lead a Squad of/or just 3 faction pets so their commands from SL are not useless to them in the field.
GamerProX wrote:
Oh no you dont, the examples you just gave were AWFUL! A Doctor and Bounty Hunter use their skill for almost anything. If both find themselves alone and not in a group, their skills (unlike a Squad Leader) are still useful, BH can protect themself, and Doctor can buff and heal themselves. They dont have to depend on other players for their skills to work. A Squad Leader on the other hand, spends 135 skill points, for skills and powers he cannot use unless he depends on others, and depending on others in a game like this is not always fun.
Sure its a social Profession, so is Dancer and Musician, but they dont depend on other people to preform for them to play their music. They just push a button and start playing. All im asking is for Squad Leader to be fun, other than leading a raiding party or hunting rancors, is that too much to ask?
In no way would I want SL to become astupid copy of Creature Handler, Bah! Yuck! Just give them the power to lead a Squad of/or just 3 faction pets so their commands from SL are not useless to them in the field.
Message Edited by InfluenzaSWTA on 04-06-2004 10:48 PM