Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Goodbye I Quit SL Correspondent Position
Cap'n, if the idea was to have the top 5 typed out fresh and clean and pretty in some correspondent thread, then you did screw-up a little bit by just posting a link. However, TH also screwed up, bigger, but just not ctrl-c, ctrl-n, ctrl-v'ing and moving on with things.
The thing that amuses me greatly is that since this was posted on a friday night, it will probably take SOE extra long for damage control, if they even decide to look at the SL forum at all. 
All I can say Captain Vemnox is that all correspondents were asked to provide a down and dirty top 5 for priority consideration. Understanably all issues are extremely important but it also must be understood all cannot be dealt with at the same time.
At the time we were asked top post the Top 5 for our areas, I had just recently been assigned the GCW correspondent position. In less then 48 hours I had to cull through a huge forum which had no representation since the release of the game. The GCW forum by nature is filled with completely opposing views on many topics and often times posted in a very passionate manner. The list of issues that needed attention was enormous.
However I managed to post a top 5 request in a short period of time. During the period of time I was attempting to compile a top 5 issues list that properly reflected the views of my forum I would read the top 5 issues posted by the other correspondents to properly get my bearings and to review the format used by those people who had more experience and had been a correspondent longer then I.
Your method and means of not posting a clear cut bullet listed top 5 but rather to sarcastically reference previously written posts, no matter how much time you spent on them was ignoring the request of TH, I thought it was rude and that you were doing a dis service to your profession and those who depended on you. However I kept quiet.
But to see thisattempt to do nothing more but dishearten those whom you represent and to clearly show your desire to discredit those whom truly wish to help the community while you choose to grandstand one last time while giving up, well it is an absolute disgrace. You also broke a trust placed in you. I was rather pleased to read the status of the GCW responses. While much needs to be discussed over a longer period of time before actual hard information can be passed along to my forum readers at the very least I understand that the Developers and specifically thunderheart replied to each and every one of the GCW top 5 with the same amount of passion I put into listing them.
Perhaps if you had not yet been burned out to the point where effective communication was no longer possible with you Captain Vemnox your squad leader community would have been better represented through this top 5 issues post and successive follow up responses. I would suggest next time you are in a similar position Captain Vemnox you take a moment and take a step back, review your thoughts on how you are going to reply to a critical top 5 issues request, no matter how many times you might have posted it previously. If your thoughts can only be formulated into a post of sarcastic remarks about how your previous issues must be addressed before you will meet a request to post a fresh new top 5 issues thread, then perhaps you need to silently retire as a correspondent at that point and properly suggest a replacement whom would actually represent the Squad leaders with passion.
So to sum up, Captain Vemnox I am shocked at the behavior of someone who was given a sacred trust and broke it, not by you breaking that trust to TH or the developers, though your behavior in that avenue was poor as well, but in that you broke faith with those whom had placed their hopes with you.... your fellow squad leaders.
Progress is slowly being made on all fronts, and as the game adjusts to refelect these changes over the course of many months the players will know who was responsible, it would have been TH and the devs working tirelessly to slowly address all of the players concerns.
JEST3R
GamerProX wrote:
Let me see if I understand this. TH wanted you to post your top 5 in a Post made only for every Professions top 5, right? But you told him where he can find your top 5, rather than post it? /shrug maybe im missing something.
Captain Vemnox wrote:
"TH now demands a Top 5 which, finally out of respect for what the community and not me personally would want, I obliged to do. I posted - QUOTE ME HERE - in the EXACT THREAD Thunderheart asked me to post in."
Philosopher1976 wrote:
"Since CaptainVemnox is not online right now, I just thought I'd let you guys know that he did make a Top Five Issues post on Correspondent Forum for you guys recently. Like you guys, he thought that it was hard to break down your problems into five issues, but he did it anyway. I'm sure he'll repost those issues here when he gets back online."[Emphasis added]
The post was made(with reluctance at first, but still made) yet it was STILL overlooked. If the Pistoleer Correspondent can find it, and the Doctor can find it, why can't TH.
The *link* that CaptV posted was not just to his "report" but to the Top 5 that was continually missed.
Could Capt V have just posted again? Sure. But when you are treated like that and ignored so directly it can be kind of belittling. And remember when TH posted HERE asking for a Top 5? It's only a few threads down so everyone can see. Players STILL posted a "Top 5" of their own.
TH could have still completely missed Capt V's post, or if Capt V didn't do one, and grabbed almost any ONE of the posts made by the players in that very thread.
Now you tell me who wasn't doing their job. On our side we've got Captain V, Philosopher, and the Doc correspondent(sorry- dont know your name yet
), and the players.Is TH busy? Yes. Is Captain V busy? Yes. Is TH working hard on the reports? Yes. Is Captain V? Yes. But with ALL of the places that TH could have found info, to not post ANYTHING reguarding Squad Leaders is, in my oppinion, unacceptable.
Madrox:
"Is TH busy? Yes. Is Captain V busy? Yes. Is TH working hard on the reports? Yes. Is Captain V? Yes. But with ALL of the places that TH could have found info, to not post ANYTHING reguarding Squad Leaders is, in my oppinion, unacceptable."
This is what I based it on. Even if there was a scenario where I submitted NOTHING (not even the report #3), they STILL would have a previous Top 5 and report to work with.
Captain
Thank you for your efforts to date. You have made a difference to the players, even if you cannot quantify it through action with the devs. I, for one, have learned a great deal from you.
/salute
In you're situation you're changing to accomodate your customers.
Instead this is like the customer comming you you with their idea and you either don't use their specifications or say that they are wrong. If the customer said they wanted everything in blue, but you say red(or in this case just keep asking them for a color) Im sure that you would know that they would be unhappy.
The Devs didn't come to us with ideas that we completely tore apart, they asked us, we told...
Have no fear Squad leaders, while I will not cut and paste things, I can assure you your Top 5 did eventually make it in Just today, a slight bit behind the power curve for it to be posted where TH was looking for it But it is listed.
And as someone who also writes up 10,000 word novels on issues regarding my forums I can assure you no state of profession was ignored, this top 5 list was merely a means to grab the top 5 red flag items so that they could get properly aired and debated then adjusted/fixed as necessary over the regular time frame it takes to resolve such things.
Please realize that while we all want things handled swiftly that the Top 5 (debacle now I guess you might call it jokingly) is merely the first step in a long and slowly developing plan guided by thunderheart to get the issues resolved.... Some top 5 may take longer then others but you would all do well to set expectations low as far as a time frame is concerned so as not to disappoint yourselves, but rather end up being pleasantly surprised when issues get taken of faster then you expected...
SO I say again do not expect anything for a long long while, there is absolutely no eta on an eta even, it was unfortunate word of the initial response back to the correspondents actually was voiced here, since it is the second step in a long long path to getting the issues properly resolved.
Anyways enough ramblings as I leave the Squad leader forums and return to my own GCW forums, I just wished to reassure you a top 5 Squad leader list did make it in today.
JEST3R
Madrox wrote:
Just a thought, but in this situation CV(and us) are the customers and TH is the Dev.
In you're situation you're changing to accomodate your customers.
Instead this is like the customer comming you you with their idea and you either don't use their specifications or say that they are wrong. If the customer said they wanted everything in blue, but you say red(or in this case just keep asking them for a color) Im sure that you would know that they would be unhappy.
The Devs didn't come to us with ideas that we completely tore apart, they asked us, we told...
Now your twisting my analogy - I wasn't talking in any broad terms. I supposed you could ultimately say that all of this is for our benefit and widen the analogy, however I was specifically speaking about CV's report. In that term CV = web designer, report = Web Site, TH = customer. Perhaps I shouldn't have used an analogy in which the customer role was reversed.
But, I guess the final conclusion is that there were errors on both sides, both of which could have been prevented.
But what is done is done, and SL's have seemingly lost a great Correspondent. Im not going as far as some other people by calling for TH's head on a pike[figurative- dont hunt me down], but I believe that in this instance that he did not act very professionally. I've seen people criticise CV for having a consecending or sarcastic tone with his posts- but I see that from TH as well.
The difference is that for TH, that is his job. He points at CV like it was solely his fault, which would understandably make him upset. After so much work to be left out and treated like you are last, *again*, is simply an insult to the SL players- particularly CV.
Sorry to see any advocate of reason disillusioned by the SOE sea of stupidity. The stories
out of Austin of the group's behavior at restaurants and trying to order are amusing... If
even half of them are true, I'm not the least bit surprised a reasonable voice finds little
to resonate with...
Sorry to hear you are leaving Captain. Thanks for all the time you invested in this game (and in us).
*sigh*
i have been a SL from day one, i have read almost every post here, i truly was going to see this through to the end. well this may be the end, Sorry to see you go CV, you were the best of us and now i have to rethink if i am going to keep SL or not. again we are ignored.
Best of luck V ,
/bow
/salute
irott wrote:
Not to be all, "The King is dead, long live the king..." but I think we should stop debating on whether Vem was right or wrong and move forward tohelp this profession. Right now is a critical point. With TH'sprofession correspondent plan on the horizon we need to be ready so our class is not passed by.
Vem suggested OmegasNeo for the position, and I second that suggestion. We need someone who is dedicated to the profession.
Irott,
I think you nailed it right there. We ALL feel the Captain's frustration, but as Squad Leaders it is our duty to move forward. After just getting back from watching the movie 'Master and Commander' I've chosen "The Lesser of two Weevils" and decided to toss my hat into the ring for theCorrespondent position. By virtue of being "first!" it looks like I'll be it going forward.
In no way do I wish to detract from the work that CaptainVemnox has poured into this profession, but I have to admit that I kinda saw this coming. The Captain has had frustration building for quite some time and I know that this conflict was the proverbial straw...
I also think I understand where Thunderheart is in all of this. He's getting pressured from all sides right now to fix everything and he really hasn't had an opportunity to take a deep look into the Squad Leader class. I suspect that a large part of why we are getting ignored is that the real fact of the matter is that many of our skills ARE working as the developer intended. Granted the HAM cost is too high, but from the Dev's perspective, so are the HAM costs to many professions. The overall impact of the Squad Leader is undoubtably underpowered by most measures, but when you realize that we don't have any "game breaking" issues and we are a very small population and our developer has been working on high profile projects like Mounts and Player Cities...we get relegated to a low priority.My hope is to draw enough attention to our profession that the developers will insteadsee us as the class to FIX this game.
I do feel like we've been forgotten, but lets make noise (the positive kind, please) and see what we can't accomplish.