Squad Leader Archive

Message Edited by gando on 05-14-2004 12:17 PM

Or rather, we want STAND ALONE fortifications too, we like the idea of having Fortifications combine with Ranger Camps to make better structure, but We would ALSO like fortifications we can create on our own...

Its been said, how hard is it to create sandbags? How hard is it to dig trenches? How does creating a Bunker fall under Ranger?

The higher level fortifications I am ALL for requiring Ranger Help and allowing rangers to place them.... so Long as rangers need us to make them too... Thats just the higher level stuff though...

We still want our OWN **edit** fortifications too!

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nhilism wrote:

Guys you are on to something here. I suggested something like this on the GCW forum a while ago. I think you need to add another item to this that would make it *awesome* and even *more* balancing! Guys you need to have this structure so that its in a U shape and so that it inhibits Line of Sight on three sides! Then you can have a strategy for the Meles that get kited to hell.

Right now a mele in a city uses the buildings as protection from line of sight until an opponent gets too restless and comes close, but outside of a city with no Line of sight inhibitions they are toast. You guys could be a mele's pvp savior.

I see this as making battles a lot more realistic.Between 2 opposing forces of equal power both with meles and ranged and healers. People wouldn't *rush* in for fear of meles coming out and owning them. But, people couldn't target the healer/reser first if he resided in the LoS protection area. People would have to actually do things like *gasp* useflanking maneuvers!

You could still have the ranged/defense bonuses or whatever work from outside, but close to, the fortification.

IMO the line of sight thing would go beyond making SL usefull and go into the realm of making pvp for meles balanced and make battles more realistic. Kill two or three birds with one stone!

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and excelet idea, i thought about a barrior wall fortificaiton but i couldnt think of what it would be used for, but as a protective area for medic and melee fighters to hide behind until the enemy come close enough for them to charge out would be perfict.

i will definatly make sure to incude that idea into the next version of the proposal

thanks for everyones support

Just another friendly ranger, throwing my 2 units of Lokian carnivore meat in (i'd throw my two credits in, but I'm a ranger, and we have no creds).

Look, I understand you're desire for a camp-like structure that would increase your defence and ranged modifiers, I really do. But I think that the idea that you are OFFENSIVE is the key. I don't want to sound like an idiot, but isn't part of being a squad leader LEADING the squad. Hard to lead anybody in a camp.

I'll tell you why Rangers in general would likely take offense to you getting this bonus: it is a long-standing Ranger desire to have camps that don't de-spawn during combat. After all, it's not like a Master Ranger is going to FORGET where his camp is when he gets attacked. There is little use for the Field Base during combat because unless we Rangers want to just watch the battle, we lose the base upon entering combat. If you were allowed, with less camping skill, to construct camps that didn't de-spawn in combat, you'd be slicing the legs out from Rangers, whose camping skills are often one of the few useful abilities we get in group combat. Taking that away leaves us with tracking, which isn't always necesary.

I agree that SL needs some major upgrades, and as a Ranger, I understand what that's about. But don't take having the same amount of scouting XP for Master Scout as being equal to what a Master Ranger has. At most, you should have temporary defensive walls or something akin to that. These would also despawn upon the creator entering combat. The idea here would be to provide a temporary wall to block incoming ranged attacks (it would also prevent the people hiding behind it from using ranged weapons). Essentially, it would be something to disrupt ranged combat while a medic healed people. Perhaps a master SL would be able to contruct multiple walls, perhaps even some that could be fired through (though once again, if the creator entered into combat, they would be removed).

This way, you don't step on the Rangers toes. Personally I think ranger camps (at least the high-level ones should stay even during combat. But until they do, I think it is foolish of you to ask Rangers to go along with a plan that would grant THEIR request to another skill tree. I like the idea, though, it shows a great amount of creativity. I think that it would work if it provided ranged defense upgrades and blocked all melee attacks, but had very limited life, so that melee users could cut through the defenses if allowed to close in. But until Rangers have combat-safe camps, I don't think any other proffession should be able to make something that so resembles a camp, but is allowed to stay up during combat. It just wouldn't be right.

anyway, I wish all of you SL's luck and hope you check out the Rangers board from time to time. I usually leave some random posts on there.

peace, love and creature harvesting.

Ok how about a multi-person shield like a person deflector but only useable by a squad leader and gives every group member when in a certain range that protection.

Also a portable cloning station. Acts as the closest cloning center for group members.

I see that there is a problem with how close ranger and squad leader could be. I think the problem sparks from the devs cutting out combat engineering skills early on. From what I know from the forums over a year ago this is how I saw the proffesions that pertain to this thread:

Squad Leader:A leader of a combat group. SL's were to have leadership abilities that act on group members in combat, and stat bonuses that constantly help the group. I think SL has the right type of abilities now but just needs more and make the current one's effective. Also I think their should be higher levels of leadership so that's there is some way for a group of 100 to be linked in some manner. Moreover, SL's should not just be one leader of 19; there should be some in-game structured interaction between allied groups lead by SL's.

Ranger: The supreme hunter. Set traps, tracking, set ambush camps, and field bases. They should have been faster than other players. The ambush camps never came. Tracking finally does work. Camo is not as useful as before since vehicles (it should have some use in PvP and PvNPC's). Ground laid traps still are coming. So overall, they have all they should coming soon the dev just have to devote the time.

Commando: Originally require Engineering IV. It would have made sence for them to be able to operate artillery and set up fortifications. However, how the game has evolved it would not make sence for them to do it.

SOLUTION:

COMBAT ENGINEER: Asking for a new proffession is knid of bold but I think it's a good starting point for disscussion. Very far back in developement I think Combat Engineer listed as possible but it was dropped. They really have a place now in SWG especially with the PvP GCW. They should have the ability to make and place the fortifications listed in this thread. Also they should have the ability to repair items quickly in the field like vehicles, droids, turrets, fortifications, etc. To make a forth tree CE's should get something that directly helps them in combat. I would recommend a demolician tree but it's a streach. This tree would give CE's the ability to place and disable mines more effectively than other players. Also they should be ableto bombs that can take out or disable fortifications but it should not be easy to (i.e. 30 seconds without being in combat). Looking for more ideas on Demo.

Isee4 trees:

1. Crafting fortifications

2. Placing fortifications

3. Repair

4. Demolicians

I love the idea in its intentions and possible advantages and improvments it will bring to SL however i do disagree with the fact it wont impact on ranger camps at all.

Holocron said we were going to get lots of new camps, one of which was the hunting blind. I saw in the fortification proposal a possible increase in damage and accuracy that could so easily be use in pve aswel in pvp. I think this featurewould render rangers inferior at providing a hunting zone for a group or themselves.

The hunting blind is just one of many camp ideas that have come and gone within the ranger forums. The current set of camps the ranger has at his/her disposalare (to be quiet honest) useless and we are awaiting upgrades in this regard.

• Yes you can heal, but a droid can heal better.


• Yes you can call a vehicle, but you can call a vehicle without a camp with onlya 15 second delay (whats the point of getting a camp out to save 15 seconds of time?)


• Yes entertainers can do their thing in your camps, but they cannot heal bf.

Although i agree with you that you need a massive revision to your purpose within the game and to your skill set and abilities, my vision of a sl is someone who can enhance combat along side his/her comrades within combat. I dont see you as a suportclassin the sense ofproviding fortifications and placeable items etc. I do see you as a suport class where you enhance the combat effectiveness of the group, you dictate the battle, you keep overyone in order.

Ranger are very similar to other professions as they often have the same requiements. However my vission of our two professions are as follows:

SL: Enhances the combat effectivness of the group by issuing orders and enhancing the feeling of unity. They can dictate battles andcommand doezens of troops in battle. They are the front line commanders.

Rangers: Masters of the wilderness, can suport a group on hunts via complex camps that can protect and defend against creatures of the wild. They travel unseen, they are shadows in the undergrowth and can bring down the largest foes using advanced traps and concealment tactics. In a group environment the ranger guides and caters for the needs of its members via camps, camoflague and guidance through hostile envoronments.

In other words SL make you fight better and enhance the combat situation, Rangers make you more comfortable on hunts, are guides and can provide great solo or group hunts.

In that sense i agree with your proposal however the camps we are expecting be them modular or hunting blind type will be negatively effected by fortifications

Message Edited by DanteCalvert on 04-25-2004 01:42 PM

Forgive me if this is in here somewhereI havn't read the entire post but also wanted to add my 2 cents. As a former Master Ranger (Combat Medic was more my thing) I would have to agree that while it would belong more in a Combat Engineer Prof SL is the most suited current prof for Fortifications. As a few people have kindly pointed out Ranger camps are meant to be a place of rest and to relax (not to say they dont need fixing) while fortifications are designed to increase your effectiveness in combat. The other thing i wanted to add was I dont think fortifications should give much or any of a melee defense but give a huge ranged damage defence as well as increase damage to thsoe affected. My reasoning for this is simple if I was hiding in my lovely new trench waiting to pop back up and waste some Rebel Scum (No offense to youscum out there but your armor is silly*) and a Rebel TKM (God knows theres enough of you out there, though theres is easily as meny Imp Tkms to) hops in and starts punching me in the face the trench isnt going to do a bit of good and i should end up lying dead on the ground hoping a doc will come along so i can go back to the camp and rest before the next wave comes and we have to rush to the fortifactions. Anyway hope that helps the argument.

*though your boots are cool, Actually now that i think about our armor is silly too, except for Scout Trooper armor, and Royal Guards mmmmmm

Your Friendly Neighborhood Sniper/Bio-Terrorist, Raknarok (Bria-JOIN THE CO-OP talk to Befuddled or Me)