Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Where's the 60 gunner
My whole point to this and my Faction troop soapbox is this: I've spent alot of Skill Points to be a squad leader. I have worked hard to get 3 different prereq trees from 2 different professions. I have the 3rd highest skill point costed profession in the game. I should get something for it. Especially because my profession that I have chosen goes towards the Number one reason for SWG: Player Interaction. If I wanted to solo all day long, I'd play Jedi Academy.
I like being in a group, and I have fun RPing the grizzled Sergeant. BUT, I'm also a combat troop. I have the combat xp to prove it. I keep hearing that we're a "combat support" profession, and that I shouldn't have any boosts to my own combat abilities. I disagree. I feel that, when grouped, I should not only be able to assist others in my group, but I should also have some sort of high powered combat abilities. Like I said, I've put in my time in combat, and I don't understand why I should be religated to the "Combat Cheerleader" role. Stop and think for a sec. How do SLs get their xp? by the killing of things, from combat. We're the only profession that gets it's xp from combat, yet we have no skills that help us with the act of cimbating enemies. This makes it difficult to be a part of the group I'm assisting. the only way I can even be effective is by picking up another elite profession, Carbineer in my case.
Why should I have to spend the points on another profession just to be able to contribute to the group? I shouldn't. I also shouldn't be the all mighty SL who solos everything in the game. But unless I take another profession, I can't even kill a lesser dewback alone. And lets face it, not all of us group ALL the time. that's why I think the SL weapon is a good idea. it would give us something special, something our own, and with it having little dmg capability, but good status change ability, it would give us a use in group hunting, without taking away from other professions ability to do their jobs.
Well, this idea is great, and needs no help from the likes of me, but allow me to just sumarize what we have so far.
- A weapon, big, but handheld, that shoots low damage AoE Stat applying shots. These stat changed incluse the likies of stun, dizzy, blind, intimidate, down posture, and up posture. Damage range for specials would be around 50-100, and the speed would be -4 seconds. This would beinifit the squad, not by causing massive amounts of damage, but by allowing others to cause the most damage possible.
Did I get everything?
ob194 wrote:
Well, this idea is great, and needs no help from the likes of me, but allow me to just sumarize what we have so far.
- A weapon, big, but handheld, that shoots low damage AoE Stat applying shots. These stat changed incluse the likies of stun, dizzy, blind, intimidate, down posture, and up posture. Damage range for specials would be around 50-100, and the speed would be -4 seconds. This would beinifit the squad, not by causing massive amounts of damage, but by allowing others to cause the most damage possible.
Did I get everything?
{BIG WOOKIE HUG} YES!!!! you got it, exactly. perfectly put.
The reason SWG uses a skill-point method is to promote dabbling. Otherwise they would have used a hard-tree method, without the possibility of multiple professions. If we make SL "dabble-proof", then we might as well put *everything* in the Master box.
Just my $.02
I think having a lower level hand help squad weapon (not at the very bottom of the tree per se, but low enough) and then more powerful tripod version higher up (maybe at master or just short of) would be a good idea.. Maybe rig something where we need all the second boxes of our professions in order to use the lesser gun... Something like that to keep out the dabblers.
Oh and Lithic, I totally agree, we are not Combat Cheerleaders, we need some firepower too 
for as many skill points as we have to spend to get here, we aren't getting much. Definitely not a cost effective profession! 
DarthLithic wrote:
irott wrote:
Lithic I see where you are comming from but SL is a support class. It will never get its own weapon. I loved those guns from Aliens, Oh... how I loved them. But that kind of gun is a heavy weapon which falls under the commando class.
If we want to improve upon SL we can't take anything away from the other professions. I used to argue that SL should get some sort of area effects or crowd controlspecials since one of the prereqs is ranged weapon support. But those skills are found in the carbineer tree, and thats what makes them unique.
What we should be doing is increasing success in battle and providing a team weapon like the e-web would do just that. Its not for us to be the super soldier but the tactician who calls the shots.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree 100%. That's why the concept that I have is for the weapon / weapons to do VERY little in the way of actual damage. 100 - 200 MAX. but it would give plenty of status affect changes. to multiple targets at the same time. that way we're making it easier for group members within range an edge over whatever they're fighting. Plus we'd make SLs sought after. Example of what I mean:
You're at Ft. Tuskin. there's 5 commoners, and a warlord in front of your group. there's only 3 of you, a noob brawler, a riflemen, and you, the Master SL. Normally, you're toast, facing a group of Tuskins that big, when you're that small. BUT.....you're the Squad Leader, and you help your squad do more than they normally would. you keep all 6 tuskins pinned to kneelingwhile the riflemen blasts away at their mind pools. the Brawler, scare out of his witts, but forced to fight these (to him) uber nasties. He pounds the Warlord hard, as you keep the Warlord pinned down, wither knocked down completely, or keep him kneeling. Finally, after a long, hard fought battle, you WIN!!! the Riflemen gets tons of xp, since you did very little damage to the commoners he just blasted to kingdom come. The Barwler has just passed out at the keyboard from all the excitement of going head to head with a Warlord, and actually defeated it (the riflemen had to help out after he crushed the commoners) and everyone gets wads of xp, since you did very litte dmg, and they did all the hard work.
that's the type of action I'm talking about. turning a group of Motley fighters into a strong fighting force. May not be the end all be all, but I think we'd have more fun, and we'd be more desireable to have around.
As quoted from the SWG Prima strategy guide: The Squad Leader can turn a motley crew of amateurs into a seriuos fighting force. Through his inspiration and leadership, his entire group can fight as one, enabling them to take on stronger opponents than usual. Be it on the battlefield or in the wasteland frontiers, a group always functions better with a Squad Leader running it."
Lithic, sounds like your right on target so far mate, keep it up.
Thanks, that's my thing, not that we wipe out everything that the group is fighting, just that we assist them, in a proactive, combative way.
Since we are getting into the dabbler debate... My professions are Master SL and I am working on Master Carbineer. I keep the Tech line of pistoleer also for those sticky situations (plus those defenses in that branch are really good).
I chose carbine because it gives those attacks with stun, blind, knockdown, etc. Its a good support class that packs some good damage as well. But what if the SL decides to go pistoleer, rifleman or CH and just dabbles? Does that change the SLs role? Not really, but just how the SL adds to the combat going on. Personaly I would like to see more support skills or passive buffs that don't rely on the SL's other skills. But then again a cert for a SL weapon is specific to SLs only and dosent require anything else. Its all a confusing matter and its up to the devs to decide on if its balanced or not.
So anyway back on topic about the guns. An old topic was to give SLs a special sidearm, much like leaders in the civil war and other past wars had them. But it never realy panned out. I am still against a personal mobile weapon. The only problem with my stationary weapon vision is in cases like you described before. The Tusken fort, The warren, etc. These are close spaces and if you are running in quick and trying to set up its going to be just like the stormtroopers in ESB. They were too slow.. but then maybe thats just drawback this idea needs. It cant be too powerful or fast. I like the idea of area effect status changes.... since SL does go off of ranged weapons support. But how do you keep it from supplementing for a group of carbineers?
An idea I just though up would be to have 3 types of team weapons. One acts like a gattling... low damage high speed (pistol), a area effect status change type weapon (carbine), and a slow high damage weapon (rifle). So to be able to use these you would have to have players with that profession... uhh maybe not. Anyway I just came up with that off the top of my head... and its late so I may not be thinking straight.
I am still all for this idea.
I like the AOE status change, low damage weapon idea, but what if the SL actually augmented the capabilites of the group? What i mean by this is something like, if you have a commando, why not help him reload? make the gun faster because of the teamwork, or have a limited, buyable amount of dynamic combat actions, like the whole airstrike thing, you have a bunch of mercs come and bomb something, and then you have to go and hire another one later, when you go back to town or something. I absolutely love the Idea of an APC. Its a vehicle, it carries people, its not exactly a squad leader's position to drive it, but then again, like the man said, its not a squad leaders position to be a cheerleader.
I haven't slept for two days, so if any of this is incoherent then just disregard it.
Presence is silence, spirit is fire, voice is the storm.