Squad Leader Archive

Thread: map out for revamped skill trees

Therascalking3
Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:52 am
#27
truthfully not that many people were cool with the role designation idea. Many people should be able to assist the group in different ways based on their profession and the only real role should be leader for the SL. obviously if you have a ranger he can scout for you but what if you dont? who do you make the formal scout? and if so does that mean that other soldiers cant assist the group by looking for mobs to hunt. While role designation would maybe make the "squad" a little more formal it can easily be done just by telling each person what to do (which i do in my groups and in guild groups a lot of times) Fortifications is a larger topic that would require more attention by the devs simply for programming reasons alone. However fortifications would add a huge new element of immersiveness and tactics to PvP combat as well as provide bonuses to the PvE players.


and to respond to irotts comment. I believe if the devs saw this tree and approved of everything (taking into account the edits from the continuation of the thread) it would be enough for our profession. The truth is that they dont pack professions full of a million things per box. Check out image designers. They have 4 tiers in the profession and each box simply adds a customization point to the 4 characteristics of characters they change. Yet that profession works pretty well. Even the combat profession just get a little bonus or a new special every box. (many of these specials are redundant as well) Granted several of the combat professions need to be fixed but it is for other reasons (like carbineers lack of AP weapons and different weapon types, or pikeman's lack of being effective) The truth is that i dont think we can cram everything we want into the profession because they probably wont go for it. Several of the ideas i put in those trees are major projects for the devs to plan out and create (such as the point to point shuttle and the fortifications idea) and some of them are skills we already have that maybe just need to be tweaked. This will make it easier on the devs to do a revamp more quickly while we can still get a large amount of exciting new content to use.






Edoh
Member of Sturmgrenadier
Master Squad Leader
Master Carbineer
Starsider
MailekEOC
Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:32 am
#28
Here is a new design that I have started on a revamp idea. This is just the mobility and novice box so far though. I have based the way its designed by looking at other professions, most have a certification in the novice box and like rifleman has 6 things just in novice, with a new skill and mods going up the first box so check this out:


I have added in a small bonus to vehicle since we all know it is a mod already as of Publish 9 and this would benefit those who do wish to take on any force sensitive quests. These are smaller then the force skills and all the devs would have to do is cap it


Novice Squad Leader:


Skill: System Message - Ability that makes a system message appear on all group member screens with a beep. More user friendly so get rid of hex code


and replace with /sys "Green" ......


Skill: Group waypoint: Ability for a Squad leader to assign a group waypoint (/groupwaypoint "xxxx xxxx") that will then show up as colored arrow like the POI wp.


Certification: Radio device: Crafted by Engineers (Artisan engineering 1-4) these can either be limited uses or run on battery power.


Skill Mods: Group Toughness +5: A new skill mod that gives a bonus to defense against indimidate and dizzy


Skill Mods: Group Melee Defense +10, Group Ranged Defense +10


Mobility Tree


Mobility 1: Terrain Guidance and Formation


Skill: Group Formation - Group members form into column (/groupformcolumn), wedge (/groupformwedge) or line (/groupformline). When in formation group members


will auto follow the Squad Leader. An icon will be displayed beside the names of members in formation. Whenever a member stops following the leader a system message


will display to the Squad Leader saying they have left the formation.


Skill Mods: Group Terrain Negotiation +10, Group Burst Run +10: Skill mods that affect the terrain and burst run modifers of group members.


Vehicle Speed +1: Skill mod that increases the speed of a vehicle.


Mobility 2: Squad Stamina


Skill: Charge: This command grants the entire group a small burst run and minor defense bonus but has a high cost for the squad leader.


Skill Mods: Group Terrain Negotiation +10, Group Burst Run +10


Vehicular Control: +5: Skill mod that affects the turning of a vehicle.


Mobility 3: Improved Stealth


Skill: Radio Silence: An ability used to conceal the group from enemies. When used it either starts to drain battery power from the Squad Leader's radio or costs 1 use on it. In PvP encounters this would be used to hide Overts from radar completely. Radio silence is broken when a group member enters combat.


Skill mods: Group Terrain Negotiation +10, Group Burst Run +10


Vehicular Speed +1


Mobility 4: Emergency Evacuation


Skill: Shuttle Recall: An ability which requires which requires a radio, allowed once per hour. When encounters become overwhelming a Squad Leader may issue the /evac


command which shuttles the group to the nearest shuttleport. A message will appear when the command has been issued to accept it. If group is overt the shuttle will go to the closest aligned city to keep overt status.


Skill mods: Group Terrain Negotiation +10, Group Burst Run +10


Vehicular Control: +5





Agent: PHANTOM

Mailek Oofiso
Elder Squad Leader ± Imperial Clone
f Magnumus Mysterium f
Vive la Saviour!


irott
Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:45 am
#29




Therascalking3 wrote:

The truth is that they dont pack professions full of a million things per box.





Thats the reason I said skill trees don't always work. Its better to have a large group of ideas for the devs to pick from instead of a select few.

The devs have seen these ideas. They have been discussed and debated by the community for many months and the devs do look in on every profession. The more we discuss the better the ideas get.


I don't want you to stop with just these ideas from your skill tree, thats my point. Keep expanding and creating.




[irott and the full effect]
Master Squad Leader
"We're all in it together" - Archibald 'Harry' Tuttle
DarkJediChase
Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:17 am
#30




Therascalking3 wrote:

truthfully not that many people were cool with the role designation idea. Many people should be able to assist the group in different ways based on their profession and the only real role should be leader for the SL. obviously if you have a ranger he can scout for you but what if you dont? who do you make the formal scout? and if so does that mean that other soldiers cant assist the group by looking for mobs to hunt. While role designation would maybe make the "squad" a little more formal it can easily be done just by telling each person what to do (which i do in my groups and in guild groups a lot of times) Fortifications is a larger topic that would require more attention by the devs simply for programming reasons alone. However fortifications would add a huge new element of immersiveness and tactics to PvP combat as well as provide bonuses to the PvE players.



As this is one of my ideas, I thought I should maybe reply to this. Firstly what you are saying is not really what I'm suggesting (and from my post I wasn't suggesting removing forts... that was someone else). The role designation is like a targeted passive bonus. Yes it is all very well saying we give orders to various people to do the roles, but it would be nice to be able to give them a bonus to that ability. It wouldn't stop other people from doing it of course, but it would it gives the group a bit more character. In particular the role of second in command is one I am very passionate about and I can't see any real reasons against it. If people do have an good counter arguement for this then please post it so I can refine the idea and hopefully get something the Devs see and go "Why the hell didn't we think of that"



Scarleta Carrin - Flurry



Therascalking3
Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:38 am
#31
jedi i was talking to the other guy who said we could get rid of the formations thing and i really dont think that is a good idea. But i thought about your role designation and it could work by way of bonuses which is something i never thought of. Say give the role of scout a vehicle speed and control bonus. Give the role of second in command several group controlling abilities. Then regular soldiers get boost for fighting. Sounds like a pretty cool idea. I think if you refine it you could win over most of the people who didnt like the idea.


Maliek i liked some of your ideas like the radio screening overt status. The evac shuttle had a good point raised about it that it would be way to exploited by jedis. I think the dual shuttle camp thing for reinforcements and stuff would be cooler. That would be harder to exploit because it would have to be somewhat away from the battle since it would be attackable and losing it would be really bad. Plus there should be a restirction on how close a fort can be to a reiforcement shuttle camp. Your formations idea is a cool thing i didnt think and it is a cool filler for novice box or mobility. I think seeing a group of composite clad warriors running at me full speed in a line would be intimidating. (hint give bonus to intimidate when in formation) or seeing a group of speeders flying in a perfect V would be cool.



Edoh
Member of Sturmgrenadier
Master Squad Leader
Master Carbineer
Starsider
MailekEOC
Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:07 pm
#32
Thanks man, I think the radio idea would be perfect as all elites should get a certifaction of something at the novice box (most do).Glad you like the formations,as this isn't unbalancing at all itjust gives that cool look to your group. That idea was actually from the devs many months ago with some proposed changes they were gonna have to SL.


I'm working on the other trees now,it was too early in the morning for me to finish them whenI posted the first two. Perhaps we can change the shuttle recall tosomething which would be part of the GCW revamp. IE have it so it costs 2000 FP and requires a SL with at least Warrent Officer II ranking.


About the trees being really packed I tend to disagree really,look at the rifleman tree right now, its got about the same amount of stuff in each box. Also as Irott says, lets give the devs at least a bunch of ideas that they can work from. I'll post the rest of the trees when I finish them later in the evening.


/salute



Agent: PHANTOM

Mailek Oofiso
Elder Squad Leader ± Imperial Clone
f Magnumus Mysterium f
Vive la Saviour!


MailekEOC
Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:45 am
#33
Ok I have finally finished a new revamp design here it is:



Novice Squad Leader:


Skill: System Message - Ability that makes a system message appear on all group member screens with a beep. More user friendly so get rid of hex code and replace with /sys "Green" ......


Skill: Group waypoint: Ability for a Squad leader to assign a group waypoint (/groupwaypoint "xxxx xxxx") that will then show up as colored arrow like the POI wp.


Certification: Radio device: Crafted by Engineers (Artisan engineering 1-4) these can either be limited uses or run on battery power.


Skill Mods: Group Toughness +5: A new skill mod that gives a bonus to defense against indimidate, and blind


Skill Mods: Group Melee Defense +10, Group Ranged Defense +10


Mobility Tree


Mobility 1: Terrain Guidance and Formation


Skill: Group Formation - Group members form into column (/groupformcolumn), wedge (/groupformwedge) or line (/groupformline). When in formation group members will auto follow the Squad Leader. An icon will be displayed beside the names of members in formation. Whenever a member stops following the leader a system message will display to the Squad Leader saying they have left the formation.


Skill Mods: Group Terrain Negotiation +25: Skill mods that affect the terrain negotiation of group members.


Vehicle Speed +1: Skill mod that increases the speed of a vehicle.


Mobility 2: Squad Stamina


Skill: Charge: This command grants the entire group a small burst run and minor defense bonus but has a high cost for the squad leader.


Skill Mods: Group Burst Run +25: Skill mod that affects the burst run modifier of group members.


Vehicular Control: +5: Skill mod that affects the turning of a vehicle.


Mobility 3: Improved Stealth


Skill: Radio Silence: An ability used to conceal the group from enemies. When used it either starts to drain battery power from the Squad Leader's radio or costs 1 use on it. In PvP encounters this would be used to hide Overts from radar completely. Radio silence lasts for 5 minutes or broken when a group member enters combat.


Skill mods: Group Terrain Negotiation +25,


Vehicular Speed +1


Mobility 4: Landing Zone (Field Commander)


Skill: Deploy LZ: Ability that places a temporary shuttle onto the battlefield which uses battery power or 1 use from the radio. A squad leader has to /deploylz "desination", afterwards the squad has to go to a shuttleport. A special Landing Zone will appear in the window, when the squad leader selects it all group members in range are notified with a menu "You squad leader has issued a landing zone, do you wish to accept the travel costs? 1000". Group members will then shuttle to destination. This ability will also work for Platoon leaders near the SL.


Skill Mods: Group Burst Run +25


Vehicular Control: +5


Weapon Strategy Tree:


Weapon Strategy 1: Improved Aim and Speed


Skill: Steady Aim: This ability increases the chance for all party members to hit their targets on the next two attack rounds. The HAM cost of this ability costs less the bigger the group is. Use /setsteadyaimoff to turn off the yelling in spatial if the SL wishes too.


Skill Mods: Group ranged weapon speed +5: Skill mod which increases speed of all grouped ranged members. (Note this passive cannot go over the speed cap)


Group melee weapon speed +5: skill mod which increases speed of all grouped melee members. (Note this passive cannot go over the speed cap)


Weapon Strategy 2: Squad Weapons and Targetting


Skill: Designate Target: Ability which "paints" a colored icon over targets choosen by the Squad Leader. A Squad Leader uses these to coordinate attacks on "Primary" and "Secondary" threats to the group.


Skill Mods: Steady Aim Bonus +10: Skill mod which effects the effectiveness of Steady Aim. Adds another attack round to steady aim and increases the group AIM modifier.


Weapon cost reduction +5: Skill mod which reduces the HAM cost of melee and renged weapon specials.


Weapon Strategy 3: Unified Strike


Skill: Volley Fire: Squad Leader issues this command and all group members in combat will attack the target. Group members will continue to attack this target unless they change it. This attack causes all members to hit the same random HAM pool. The bigger the group the less HAM it costs a Squad Leader. Note that this is only a ranged weapon special attack, melee are not effected by Volley Fire.


Skill Mods: Group ranged weapon speed +5 Group melee weapon speed +5


Weapon Strategy 4: Precision Striking (Battlefield Specialist)


Skill: Artillery Barrage: This ability will require the radio to use. When the SL uses this ability the overhead map will display with a 32m radius. Once the Squad Leader has selected the targetted area, a system message will display to all group members, "Warning, artillery strike immident!!". Borders will display around the blast radius (much like how housing works when first deployed). All group members have one minute to leave the blast range. Artillery strikes cause blast damage, the bigger the group, the more damage is used. To balance this devastating ability it will be on a 60 minute timer and if the Squad Leader is incapped or killed before strike timer reaches 0, the strike is wasted.


Skill Mods: Volley Fire Bonus +10: Skill mod which increases the damage effectiveness of Volley Fire. Every +10 adds 1x multiplier on the normal attacks.


Weapon cost reduction +10


Leadership Tree:


A squad leader must gain Leadership Experience that will be used to go up this skill tree. Leadership should be considerable less then the Squad Leading XP, along the lines of how combat XP works. Perhaps this XP is calculated using your Squad Leader specials x total damage output / number of group members. (Note this is a suggestion since most Elite Combat Professions require 2 types of XP). If this is not possible then use regular SL XP.


Leadership 1: Enforced Discipline



Skill: Form Up: This ability is used to clear the stunned and dizzy state of all group members. The bigger the group, the more HAM costs for a squad leader. When the squad leader reaches master level, Form Up will also clear Intimidate


Skill Mod: Group Toughness +10 Group Melee Defense +5


Leadership 2: Command Directives


Skill Mod: Group Melee Defense +5


Leadership +10: Skill mod affecting some squad leader specials. A squad leader with a high leadership will have reduced HAM costs and/or fail rates.


Leadership 3: Battlefield Authority


Skill: Rally: An ability which improves the combat defense and accuracy of the group. The more leadership a squad leader has, the better chance of a successful rally. With +40 Leadership, group members are able to heal, harvest and loot when rallied.


Skill Mods: Group Melee Defense +5 Leadership +10


Leadership 4: Heightened Confidence (Commissar)


Skill: Boost Morale: This powerful ability allows the Squad Leader to boost the morale of their troopers. This will increase the squad's defense against chemical and disease attacks and Knockdown. The more leadership a Squad Leader has the higher the defense and increased chance of successfully attemping to Boost Morale. The larger the group the higher the HAM costs for the Squad Leader. Boost Morale lasts for 2 minutes.


Skill Mods: Group Melee Defense +5 Group Toughness +10 Leadership +10


Tactics Tree:


Tactics 1: Front Line Support


Skill: Cover Fire: An ability used to help melee fighters get into attack range. Acts as a crowd control multi target shot for ranged fighters which will cause a posture change.


Skill Mods: Group Ranged Defense +5


Group Melee Damage +10 Skill mod which increases the percentage of damage done by melee weapons.


Tactics 2: Defensive Stance


Skill: Defensive Stance: Squad Leader may issue this command (/startdefensive) which will cause all melee fighters to go into Defensive Stance. An icon will display beside all who are currently in the stance. While in this stance it increases the defense but will lower offensive power. Other commands maybe issued but fighters who are currently in a stance will not benefit from it. To end the stance a Squad Leader must issue the (/stopDefensive) command.


Skill Mods: Group Ranged Defense +5



Tactics 3: Battlefield Communication


Skill: Assign Platoon: Ability that would require the Radio to operate. Any Squad Leader with Tactics 3 can issue the /assignplatoon "name" to group leaders. When issued a box will tell the group leader if he/she wishes to join the platoon. When accepted a special chat channel is created which will allow up to 6. A platoon must be created by a Squad Leader but group members invited are not required to be Squad Leaders. Using this new channel, the platoon will be able to coordinate attack patterns effectively.


Skill Mods: Grouped Ranged Defense +5


Group Ranged Damage +10 - Skill mod which increases the percentage of damage done by ranged weapons.


Tactic 4: Offensive Stance (Tactician)


Skill: Offensive Stance: Squad Leader may issue this command (/startoffensive) which will cause all ranged fighters to go into Offensive Stance. An icon will display beside all who are currently in the stance. While in this stance it lowers the defense but will increase offensive power. Other commands maybe issued but fighters who are currently in a stance will not benefit from it. To end the stance a Squad Leader must issue the (/stopOffensive) command.


Skill Mods: Group Ranged Defense +5


Master Squad Leader: (Command General)


Skill: Shuttle Recall: An ability which requires which requires a radio, allowed once per hour. When encounters become overwhelming a Squad Leader may issue the /evac


command which shuttles the group to the nearest shuttleport. A message will appear when the command has been issued to accept it. If group is overt the shuttle will go to the closest aligned city to keep overt status.


Skill: Concentrated Strike: Using the experienced gained on the battlefield, a Master Squad Leader is able to focus all ranged firepower on a weak spot of the target. This ability causes all ranged fighters to attack (including specials) the weakest HAM pool of the Squad Leader's target. After the strike, all members resume their orignal targets. This move can often destroy a target so it can only be used once every 5 minutes. The bigger the group the more HAM it costs the Squad Leader.


Skill Mods: Group Terrain Negotiation +10 Group Burst Run +10 Group Melee Defense +15 Group Ranged Defense +15 Group Toughness +15 Leadership +10 Weapon Cost Reduction +10



Squad Leaders and the Galactic Civil War ideas:


Novice Squad Leader: Grants a 5% bonus to faction points when leading a group.


Base Takedown: Requires Leadership 4 (I don't like the idea of Novice Squad Leader able to take out bases, the requirements have to be increased)


Tactics 4: Grants a 15% bonus to faction points when leading a group.


Ability to deploy different types of fortifacations ranging from sandbags, bunkers to Command Center (MSL)


These fortifactions would have different bonuses to them some could even create a faction mission terminal


Master Squad Leader: Grants a 25% bonus to faction points when leading a group.


Ability to /grantovert or /grantcovert status to group members. Squad Leader must be overt for at least 5 minutes.


Access to special group GCW missions which would require teamwork and very high difficulty (Rescue missions, Weapon Depot destroy missions)


Ability to request reinforcements with the Radio, these NPCS would be uncontrollable, just added firepower.


Ability to Radio for orbital bombardment (required to be purchased from a recruiter).


Well there ya have it, now i'm going to sleep.








Agent: PHANTOM

Mailek Oofiso
Elder Squad Leader ± Imperial Clone
f Magnumus Mysterium f
Vive la Saviour!


Therascalking3
Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:10 am
#34
i like a lot of your ideas but i think you have too much crammed in. But we shouldnt worry about that till it comes down to actually making trees if the devs will let us work with them. a few things:


60 minute timer on the airstrike i think is too long but i think if it can damage the SLs group it is somewhat fair so ok i think we just need to shorten that timer.


i really think forts need to be something that you build up through a branch in the tree but whatever forts are cool.


i think resistances should mostly be passive not active like in your Boost Morale.


and i am totally against making anything in SL tied to faction as in needing faction points to do something. There are neutrals man so we need to watch on what ties we make to the GCW


I really think the radio idea is cool, but only if its like an equippable item thing that looks cools as well as functions correctly lol



Edoh
Member of Sturmgrenadier
Master Squad Leader
Master Carbineer
Starsider
MailekEOC
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:06 pm
#35
I tried to balance with the passives as best as I could. The key is knowing when to use those timed skills, that would require leadership and battlefield knowledge. Having an always active poison and disease resist would be too overpowering in think, but thats just me.


I did my best to keep the core skills still intact but revamped of course to something better. I disagree with the skill trees being too full, perhaps they look too full at this time in the game, but every profession could learn from this and have added bonuses/skills added to their trees, cause frankly most professions are too emtpy.


All elite combat professions should get at least a couple specials, mods and a certification at all novice box. About neutral SLs I totally understand, which is why I did the best I could for designing the trees in a matter that would benefit all types of SLs.


But the special faction perks i'll stand by consider that it is something extra you can have if you choose to fight in the war. Its just to encourage those to actually join a faction cause.




Agent: PHANTOM

Mailek Oofiso
Elder Squad Leader ± Imperial Clone
f Magnumus Mysterium f
Vive la Saviour!


MailekEOC
Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:09 pm
#36
Another thing, considering we have been pushed back yet again, this means the devs will have to promise what they say. Meaning we should get a nice publish or mini publish that is dedicated. So alot of the things like fortifacations, to new animations and radio graphics can be done. They won't be able to use the "art department working on space" excuse anymore.



Agent: PHANTOM

Mailek Oofiso
Elder Squad Leader ± Imperial Clone
f Magnumus Mysterium f
Vive la Saviour!


MailekEOC
Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:15 am
#37
Reason I split these defenses up was to not beneift any dabbling. Also you get a nice boost at Novice followed by small upgrades up till the top tiers getting the greatest bonuses at master. This rewards those who truely wish to be master commanders on the battlefield.


Thank you for like the version I put together.



Agent: PHANTOM

Mailek Oofiso
Elder Squad Leader ± Imperial Clone
f Magnumus Mysterium f
Vive la Saviour!


boucher6
Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:31 pm
#38
great ideas!!!


Only problem is they would not allow the defense to go into only one box



ZiekFleid
~ HOUSE OF ELDARIE ~
~ WARMASTER ~
"Who is more foolish?, The Fool? Or The fool who follows."

MailekEOC
Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:48 am
#39
I like the idea of fortifacations because of our survival xp requirement but I do not like dedicating an entire tree just to that. Having a few sprinkled throughout some trees and at master though is cool though.



Agent: PHANTOM

Mailek Oofiso
Elder Squad Leader ± Imperial Clone
f Magnumus Mysterium f
Vive la Saviour!


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