Squad Leader Archive
Thread: here's why we dont get any love
i'd like some chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream, please.
wow, i've come back to my own thread in which i tried to Rally the troops, focusing a Steady Aim on our goal (improving SL) only to find that we need to Boost Morale amongst ourselves. thankfully, it seems that 'We're all in this together' and wont be Retreating from the core issue. now, we just need to 'Stay on target' and get the love we deserve from the players and devs.
its quite apparent that there are two schools of thought among the SL players. one says we're fubared, the other says borked. but both can agree that we need help. i made the clicky to that thread on the bloodfin forum to bring these problems to the forefront. i've joked in my own guilds forums and chat that i am the Master of an Officially Broken Profession. we've all known for some time that we arent what we should be. now, we know the players feel that way also.
if i've opened your eyes to the plight of our profession in a group environment then i've done my job. i continue to stand firm and do my best to convince my fellow bloodfinians that we're not just the base timer setter. we can help them kill their rontos; we can help them farm faction points. we are still here and we still fill a role. if that is way you feel you can help us, GREAT. if you think we need brand-spanking-new, fresh, creative ideas for a complete revamp, GREAT. i'm only urging you to do what you can. in the end, you'll help us all out either way.
as do i. i take alot of pride in my proffession, i want other proffs to recognize what we can do, and what we could do. i love it when someone strolls in here asking questions about becoming squad leader. if people are excited about our prof we will get attention. sl is on the top of a lot of peoples wish list of gcw fixes. i'm extatic that in todays current bugged out system as much works as it does. i don't want anyone to discourageothers from educating themselves on what we can do, so they can understand what we need and help us get it. thats it. like i said, i like to come here cause its level headed. but i guess i cant underestimate the passion of squadleaders.
...now...who wants ice cream?
FWIW, I had always envisioned the "unlock" thing as an enhancement for other group members, not for the SL himself. This seems to fit with the developers'stated Squad-Leader-as-Bard vision. Something akin to "If you stand with me I will make you fight longer,stronger andfaster - butwhen I stand alone, I'm just a scmuck with a tambourine."
Yeraze wrote:
In general, I think the "unlock new specials" idea is somewhat flawed, as that just means you'll have FOTM templates that group with a droid to get the 1 super-special move unlocked for them.
I don't imagine it would be much harder than revisiting the same chunk of exclusion code that gives the Retreat burst-run bonus to everybody but the Squad Leader.
Darth_Sushi wrote:
Squad-Leader-as-Bard
*shudder*
please, Darth, say you're joking on that one
worst character class ever
please, Darth, say you're joking on that one
Didn't you read the patch notes yet?
Take a look here:
Profession: Entertainer
- Added a New Dance - Bunduki (an interpretive dance from the planet on which the Teras Kasi fighting style originated)
- Added a New Song - Swing
- Add new particles to the old healing branch
- New dance particles:
- Center Stage
- Color Swirl
- Dance Floor
- New music particles:
- Featured Solo
- Laser Show
- Fire Jet 2
- Exotic flourishes now function properly.
- Battle Fatigue is no longer acquired and entertainers can no longer heal it.
- Entertainer's and elite professions' skill branches have been reworked to accommodate these changes.
- Merged the modifiers and abilities of Squad Leaders into the now unused branches of Musician's Wound Healing and Musician's Fatigue Healing.
- removed the Squad Leader profession
- respec tokens are issued to anybody with Squad Leader abilities in their current build
- Add NEW dance props to old healing branch
- Staff
- Sword
- Sparkler
- Glowstick
- Torch
- Ribbon
- Double Ribbon
- Mystical Ribbon
- Double Mystical Ribbon
- Sparkle Ribbon
- Double Sparkle Ribbon
- Also, at novice dancer or higher, dancers can dual wield props.
Any more questions? *grin*
Message Edited by Sylow on 07-12-2005 04:01 PM
Darth_Sushi wrote:I don't imagine it would be much harder than revisiting the same chunk of exclusion code that gives the Retreat burst-run bonus to everybody but the Squad Leader.
Yea.. guess you gotme there..
I grow weary from all the waiting....
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Ok, Ill reply to your rant post. I'm a master Squad Leader and I disagree with what your saying. I don't like to give info out, especially about my prof or tactics but with posts like this I think intrest in SL is minimal anyways.
First of all, have you ever noticed that quite often the best pvp groups, the people with the most credits, and people with the best loot always have a Squad Leader near by?
Squad Leader is a welcome member of any group along with players who are new jedi, completed jedi template, ranged and Tera Kasi Master. Squad Leader profession is not for a player who is obsessed with stat stacking themselves, or is selfish. If your not a team player then SL is not for you.
Here are # reasons that somone would want to be a Squad Leader
1)Group Melee Defense Bonus +40. Not a big deal to a non jedi, but very useful for a force player who has maxed out with +25 melee defense attachments or clothing.
2)Group Terrain Neg Bonus +60 is usefull for all players, especially players who don't have any scout, or +15 worth or terrain neg attachments.
3)Boost Morale, when a TKM is meditating a Squad Leader can use this ability to take away wounds from other members of the group, the TKM can then meditate them away. Great for pvping, for when you dont have a healer or doctor in your group, or if your way out in the middle of no where.
4)Form up, not the greatest ability unless your fighting an npc that keeps sticking dizzy or stun to your group members, this ability will cure it.
5)Rally, +80 Defense, +40 Ranged Accuracy, +40 melee accuracy. Great ability when used starport hopping pvp, or with volleyfire. Downside is that it does'nt last long enough and you have to be standing still to use it, or you would see it more often.
6)Steadyaim. Accuracy bonus, its nice, but compared to volleyfire its just a hassle to use it. Would be good to use when Bounty Hunting and have riflemen in your group using sniper shot.
7)Retreat. This is the second best ability a SL has. Gives the entire group a burst run. A macro can be set up so the group has non stop burst run. This is usefull for looting, getting past hard areas to get loot, and my favorite, killing noob jedi XP camping on kashyyk. You get in, get out before anyone knows, plus you run so fast the npc's cant keep up with you. Burst run is also nice to have on Bounty Hunting missions where the jedi has force run.
Can also be used for hunting big game like krayts when you need to get the group out of danger.
8)Sysgroup command. This sounded stupid to me untill I tried using it. What it does is displays a message just like the server shutdown one. You can use colors in it ect. This does come in handy when in a group pvping, or attacking large npc groups that have different names. Set up a target macro with sysgroup command. The way I have mine set up is when pvping and you want to select a target, a message will appear Focus all firepower on (TARGETNAME). If you dont use voice chat or have members who are not using voice chat, this is a great ability. ITs also good to send commands to different waypoints, or select a meeting point for your group.
9)A Squad Leader will become an experienced leader. You get used to commanding groups, looking out for other group members ect. It might sound trivial but having somone who is organised and cant form groups fast for pvping is great.
10)Vollyfire. Last of all, the best state you can land on an enemy in the game. This ability is why I am a Squad Leader. This ability claims to give an accuracy bonus, this might be true but there is no way you can test it, however, you can see the damage increase on your enemy, and its a big increase. Warning shot, dizzy, intimidate and all the other debuff abilites are a nice addition to volleyfire, but they only have about a 4% damage increase. Armor break is a bit higher and is excellent with volleyfire. If your hitting an enemy for 1500 and the Squad Leader in your group uses volleyfire, you will hit for 1750. It lands every time, you cant miss, you can use it again as soon as it wears off, which is about 30 seconds.
A damage increase like that might not seem to appealing to a player who solo's or hasnt completed their template yet. But, it seems that everyone follows the same steps in this game. Spend hours thinking of the best stat stack you can do with your template, once your template is done look for the best gear, get the best weapon, armor, and max out each stat +25 with clothing and skill attachements. Once your template is complete youll be looking for other ways to increase damage on your enemies, Squad Leader is best option. Its also excellent for bounty hunting groups when you need to outdamage the Jedi's heals, or on the other side, if a squad leader is in a group with seven Jedi player, or damage players like carbineers or rifleman, your opponents dont stand a chance when volleyfire is on them. This damage increase does apply to pets or droids who are grouped for anyone who is wondering.
The animation for Volley Fire is also usefull for picking out a target, you will see a large red pulsating target animation, this makes it easy to see who or what npc to attack next, especially when combined with the sysgroup command. You can use this ability to pull at 65m being carefull not to spook the npc around your target, great if your melee or a pistoleer with 35m range or less. Since there arent many SL in the game you dont see this often, I find that it scares the $%&* out of people when they get hit with it, and have never saw it before.
Last word
Yep, Squad Leader is broke, but that isnt any reason to remove it from the game. If we removed everything from SWG that didnt work the way it was intended, or that didnt work flawlessly, then SWG would not exist. The most important point to keep somthing in the game is if there are paying players who are enjoying the profession, if so, then there is no reason to remove it.
3)Boost Morale, when a TKM is meditating a Squad Leader can use this ability to take away wounds from other members of the group, the TKM can then meditate them away. Great for pvping, for when you dont have a healer or doctor in your group, or if your way out in the middle of no where.
Purely theoretical option. I never saw it being used or even making sense to be used.Rarely saw anybody with such an ammount of wounds that this would have been necessary before CU, don't see it now any more at all. (If somebody has massive wounds, he usually just comes from a space mission... if he then goes hunting without getting healed, he deserves no better... )
4)Form up, not the greatest ability unless your fighting an npc that keeps sticking dizzy or stun to your group members, this ability will cure it.
Why do all people say it's PvE only... it doesn't help if your teammate is a Jedi and attacked by a BH, that's true. But in "normal" PvP, i came to the conclusion that it works. (Not actually tested in detail, but it would be a great coicidence if several members of my team loose the stun state when i trigger formup if the formup would not do it...)
5)Rally, +80 Defense, +40 Ranged Accuracy, +40 melee accuracy. Great ability when used starport hopping pvp, or with volleyfire. Downside is that it does'nt last long enough and you have to be standing still to use it, or you would see it more often.
100% to the point. Wish it would last as long as the cooldown is, would allow me to keep the team rallied all the time.
6)Steadyaim. Accuracy bonus, its nice, but compared to volleyfire its just a hassle to use it. Would be good to use when Bounty Hunting and have riflemen in your group using sniper shot.
Reminds me that i have to rework the mathematical analysis of this to be one solid document which also can be given to the devs. Shows clearly that steadyaim only is of advantage inrare situations which i assume that many players never find in their complete playing time.
7)Retreat. This is the second best ability a SL has. Gives the entire group a burst run. A macro can be set up so the group has non stop burst run. This is usefull for looting, getting past hard areas to get loot, and my favorite, killing noob jedi XP camping on kashyyk. You get in, get out before anyone knows, plus you run so fast the npc's cant keep up with you. Burst run is also nice to have on Bounty Hunting missions where the jedi has force run.
Can also be used for hunting big game like krayts when you need to get the group out of danger.
Here i completely disagree. The action costs are prohibitive, which mainly was installed due to people who in earlier time ran the ability on a macro to have it active all the time. Due to this massive exploit, the ability now is in a state where i consider it to be mostly useless.
Retreat currently uses 90% of your action bar, if you have less, you can't start it. This means, if you do anything but keeping burstrun active, your macro will fail... but it also means, if you ever get into a situation where a retreat would be the sensible thing to do, you guaranteedly have used any other ability before and are not able to issue the command. So much to "second best ability", i personally wonder why i waste a toolbar slot for something which usually is not useable, anyways... [when i need retreat, i best first stop fighting, go to the toilet till action recovers, when i return i can also issue it with entering /retreat in the chat... if somebody of the team still is alive, they'll sure appreciate it... ]
9)A Squad Leader will become an experienced leader. You get used to commanding groups, looking out for other group members ect. It might sound trivial but having somone who is organised and cant form groups fast for pvping is great.
While i agree with this, i don't connect it with the profession at all. This is a matter of "player quality", the next door chef/bioengineer can do it as good, if the player behind him has the necessary competence.
10)Vollyfire. Last of all, the best state you can land on an enemy in the game. This ability is why I am a Squad Leader.
Then you'd be better off with 0300, which actually many people seem to do. Anyways, i agree, this ability is the very one which we can point towards and tell that having an SL in group is worth it.
Its also excellent for bounty hunting groups when you need to outdamage the Jedi's heals, or on the other side, if a squad leader is in a group with seven Jedi player, or damage players like carbineers or rifleman, your opponents dont stand a chance when volleyfire is on them.
Not really. You have to be able to attack a target so you can put volley fire on it. If you have BH in your build and have the Jedi on your mission, this works. Though, as soon as Pub 20 is here, you won't hunt Jedi in group any more, it's one on one. (No more names on the terminals...good luck in group to get the mission on the same jedi, "slightly impossible". ) Also, when a jedi in team is attacked by a BH, you have no way to assist your teammate. AS the BH is not hostile to you, you won't manage to put volley fire on him.
This damage increase does apply to pets or droids who are grouped for anyone who is wondering.
Actually in some terms volley fire currently works better than it should. If i am in team as neutral/on leave and issue volley fire on a target, the target takes increased damage from the complete team, thus also applies the bonus to combatants and special force players.
Yep, Squad Leader is broke, but that isnt any reason to remove it from the game. If we removed everything from SWG that didnt work the way it was intended, or that didnt work flawlessly, then SWG would not exist. The most important point to keep somthing in the game is if there are paying players who are enjoying the profession, if so, then there is no reason to remove it.
Nobody here is serious on removing the profession, that's rather a joke which often goes around. Fact is that the Devs are clueless on what to do with us (even openly stated so on Fanfest) and that we still have some issues. We want fixes and improvements, but if things continue with the usual speed, SWG will be shut down in asome years with SL still being in similar shape as now.
I have seen the "helpful to BHs and Jedi" comment mentioned around from time to time...not just here but elsewhere as well. Pre-curb, SL abilites like retreat, rally and steady aim did work once the combat began. At least they did to other BHs in a group hunting a jedi. As a SL in PVP, I have seen BHs engage jedi in my group on several occasions since the CURB, and the only thing from a SL helping a jedi are your innate group mods. I tried to use rally and steady aim to no avail. Even though they are mods to the jedi, and have nothing to do with the BH....you can do the 2 skills while not in combat for example...they will not get the abilities, and the icon will not appear by their name. Your TN and +30melee/ranged defense are the only benefits they are gaining. Justr wanted to clarify what Sylow was pointing out there.
Sylow wrote:
Its also excellent for bounty hunting groups when you need to outdamage the Jedi's heals, or on the other side, if a squad leader is in a group with seven Jedi player, or damage players like carbineers or rifleman, your opponents dont stand a chance when volleyfire is on them.
Not really. You have to be able to attack a target so you can put volley fire on it. If you have BH in your build and have the Jedi on your mission, this works. Though, as soon as Pub 20 is here, you won't hunt Jedi in group any more, it's one on one. (No more names on the terminals...good luck in group to get the mission on the same jedi, "slightly impossible". ) Also, when a jedi in team is attacked by a BH, you have no way to assist your teammate. AS the BH is not hostile to you, you won't manage to put volley fire on him.
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