Squad Leader Archive

Message Edited by Sylow on 02-02-2005 12:52 PM

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Sylow wrote:

2. The suggested reduction in damage. This change would work right away, damage always is a deciding issue in combat. Some people worry about the possible kiting and so on, i think that with reduced damage all the kiting won't help any more. Still, while not doing damage, you could still inflict states like knockdown to cover your retreat.

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A decrease in accuracy is in effect a decrease in damage. Let's say I do a shot that does 1000 pts of damage, and let's say I can hit 10 of those shots in 10 seconds that is 10k pts of damage. Now if you decrease my accuracy by half I will still hit for 1k per hit, and I still can shoot 10 times in 10 seconds, but only half of them will hit making for 5k worth of damage over the same span of time.

Remember kids stay in school.

/NerdModeOff

• food


• dead eye


• accuracy enhanced power ups


• general range accuracy


• /aim


• higher accuracy weapons


• range accuracy ca/aa

generally reducing accuracy by 50% would not really change the tactical situation much (barring the curb of course) by penalizing lower accuracy professions then others Pistols would be hurt more then Rifleman

a 50% damage reduction otoh would be very effective but this penalizes certain professions more then others Rifles would be hurt more then Bounty Hunter with their state attacks.

best overall - fire/special rate reduction - max 1 shot per 2 secs hardcapped. affects all equally

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best overall - fire/special rate reduction - max 1 shot per 2 secs hardcapped. affects all equally

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Only increasing the speedcap would not be enough, as not everybody is speedcapped. The complete action should be, increasing speedcap to two seconds and generally doubling the time an attack needs when burstrun is applied.

Anyways, this is the best idea of all mentioned here, sounds most fair and most effective to me.

Message Edited by Sylow on 02-02-2005 05:27 PM

Sylow andAckehece summed up my initial thoughts well, perhaps i was too consise with my original posts.

Of course i can not say how the accuracy system will work after the CURB, might very well be that it will then work out, i can only say that in the current system the reduction of accuracy would probably fail.

QFE

Damage reduction is simple and imho the most effective way to do this, you could increase weapon delays but this runs into exactly the same problem as reducing accuracy if you think about it. There is no way to my knowledge to "break" this ability. I've now said my piece on damage vs accuracy/delay time. I hope you take this into consideration Irott and bring the best solution to the Devs whatever it might be. Of course should a differant idea come about that i agree with more i will most certainly back it.

/salute Irott

Thanks for all the support.

I wish I could give you guys some more info about whats happening in the CURB, because there are quite a few things that would affect this idea. Due to the new GCW changes and other stuff happening in the Correspondent sector... I havent really had time to work on this proposal, but I am going to try and get all your comments and suggestions organized into one list so I can go over it and work out a good solution.

Keep the ideas and concerns comming.

/salute

I think Blackferne had the best suggestion with a .5 accuracy while moving modifier. Half everbodies accuracy while moving. Grant a burstrun for the duration and give it no downer. Make it useable once every 15mins and grant the SL a burstrun AFTER the squads burstrun has ended. My only concern is that the downer does not hinder using the special to charge. If a special that were more useful for charging was implemented I think the aforementioned idea would be best for retreat.

Say a move with a 1.25 acc while moving modifier and a .50 melee/ranged def modifier. Again 15mins only but SL gets burstrun at the same time. Give charge a 30s duration and retreat a 1min duration.

As far as consent is concerned, I feel it should be enforced however if the devs feel a consent is needed (even though imo it would be detremental to the proffesion) I think a system message should be displayed (in colour) saying "Your Squad Leader orders you to retreat" you then have to type /accept or /decline to either use or decline the special. A good SL would get their group to all create a short alias for /accept and /decline to make it quick and easy in the heat of combat. There should also be an option to turn off consent requirement before battle. This way when I am leading friends we dont have to be bothered with it. Maybe a popup on joining the group to decide whether or not you wished to enable enforced SL commands or not. If you say you dont you have to manually enable retreat etc. and get a sys msg telling you the SL has used those commands.

Message Edited by Combat_Medic_to_be on 02-03-2005 08:39 PM

Retreat

• Time limit of 1 hour between uses

I dont like this. My idea will affect this two issus below too. See further below for my idea: /stopretreat.

• Increased burstrun duration.
• Still trying to figure out a decent time limit. But quite a bit longer than the current duration.

• "Down time" of 3 to 5 mins, much like a spice downer.

1 hour is just to long. I do understand that the "continiously burstrun" has to go.

My Idea:

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The /retreat and the /stopretreat command:

Depending on the level of the skill of the SL the groupburst (/retreat) can last longer up till X minutes (Im not experienced enough with this so I leave it up to the veterans).

The downer will last double(tripel, 1.5x?) the time the groupburst run took, right after the burstrun. The HAM cost should be high while calling it and the downer even higher when the downer kicks it (maybe the downer could be depending on the duration too).
During this time the SL cannot call in for another /retreat.

The SL can /stopretreat the burstrun earlier/bevor the end of the /retreat to shorten the time of his downer (decrease its HAM costs), to correct his mistake if he called in for an unwanted/needed retreat or just stop it if the burstrun isnt needed anymore. /stopretreat so simple.

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I dont like any ideas of rejecting the SL command or using "an ask for consent option while grouping" or any "pop up window".
If you group with a SL you follow his commands, that's where the ask for consent option is.
Don't make the system to difficult with another option during grouping, and an in combat pop up is a) distracting, b) would take to long if you are realy in a hurry (heal or click yes, darn dead!), c) could cause lag.

Yes SL can affect other players and that has to be monitured carefully, the groupleader should take a high risk in calling this command. That should compensate the other players for their "loss of free will" (its just a burstrun). He is calling/should be calling this command to help the majority in his group, since his responsibilities are to all not just one player .... *cough* jedi.
Its his "life" he is putting at risk to help the others.

BUT we all are humans and we all make mistakes.
So give the SL the ability to stop/shorten the burstrun. So he can correct his error, learn from his mistake.
He still has to pay for the HAM, he still has to wait double the time to call it in again, he still has the downer.
That should make him think twice about calling it unneeded. In addition since the HAM cost are high when calling it and higher during the downer, he wont regenerate HAM that much that he might call in another /retreat right after the downer, preventing the "abuse" of retreat too.

The idea to lower accuracy/damage/... while /retreating, although realistic, might cause ppl even more dislike this ability. Consider this before nobody sees the benefits for their char in the SL group.
You might "balance" it with a loss in accuracy but increase of ranged defense, since you harder to hit while running. Or have lower melee defense while running but higher ranged defense (if your running away your easier to hit in melee, assuming the new 6m melee range is inplace , since it is ridiculous to get hit at 20m but that belongs somewhere else).


So:
Higher ranged defense, loss of accuracy, lower melee defense IF you are in range of a melee, but only if melee range is realistic, so while running away you get either hit or are out of range.






.

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DJSIMHEAD wrote:

Definatly need a always accept sl orders box in options.

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it's called do you wish to join this group.

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Ackehece wrote:

it's called do you wish to join this group.

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QFE. /consent is assumed.