Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leader Fortifications Version 2.0
The Rangers camp by deffinition speeds up recovery and wards off unwanted Creatures... Its a place of Refuge.... A place to heal and tend to your creatures, summon new ones etc.... it is by all intents and purposes an instrument of Rest and Restoration.... Although some would like it otherwise....
The Squad Leaders Fortification by its very nature is oriented toward combat, long drawn out combat cycles most likely.... a place to fight, hold the line, and take cover from enemy fire.... It is not a place to fix wounds or call pets or heal at... It is by all intents and purposes an instrument of War and Combat....
Give Squad Leaders our Fortifications that we can create on our own... Sand bags and trenches, basic non tech types, and one or two tech types... *basic fortifications should be allowed to be built in town...*
Give Rangers better Restorative camps etc... hospices etc....
And give us the option to combine our abilities and make a Deffense Outpost... Rangers give the heavy duty technology and restoritive bonuses, we give the firepower and deffensive bonus.... And the community as a WHOLE has an awesome fortification to fight from.
Simple as that, give both Rangers and Squad Leaders an amazing deffense outpost that both can place, but need eachother to make... and you have to be MASTER Ranger / Master Squad Leader to place it...
And give rangers new and better restorative camps, and give Squad Leaders their standalone fortifications.
The logic of it is this, Squad Leaders go through their whole line with combat and deffense bonuses.... Rangers go through their whole line with Healing and Restorative bonuses... And when they both reach the top, they get access to something their proffesion didn't have before *through an Deffensive Outpost*
Comments concerns? Anything unclear about what I said, please tell me
As a former squad leader on a different server than I play on and a current Master Ranger I can honestly say I like this idea. If it was setup so that these fortifications required a Ranger camp as a component, then that should alleviate most of the tensions that would result.
Turrets? Well I'd say fine but only the factional turrets, this is a temporary fortification and the faction point cost may hinder most people from doing this.
i love this idea
and is that true about Skill mods? I had never hear dthat if a player was maxxed before that the SL ones didnt improve it. If this is true it needs ot be fixed.....otherwise theres no point in having them.
Glad to see you back in the fray Omegus.
I used to be skeptical about this idea but that was only based of my knowledge of the current combat system. Combat is going to be changed, and hopfully the mob AI will be included in the change.
And now that the team weapon idea has been proposed... I am leaning more and more to a fortification system. (This new version is much better) 
A fortification system would work much better in PvP and against ranged PvE mobs... since most creatures are strictly melee (which is perfect for the Ranger hunting blinds that are supposed to be comming). But it could work that the fortification is weaker against melee attacks and a large group of creatures could take it out pretty fast. So trenches could be a defense against that.
And how this is even related to rangers is beyond me... rangers make camps... since they solo so muchits almost the exact opposite of SL. This is a way to provide defenses while in combat. The only camp part of it would be strictly visual. Ranger/scout camps are areas to heal and relax while not in combat.
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I think the point of a fortification is to make NOTRUNNING around a Valid option...... You stay put and retain HUGE Deffense bonuses and Offensive bonuses, if anything that would make your Squad More effective in a drawn out fire fight... * Imagine coming into Theed Space Port or Anchorhead and see a wall of Sand Bags setup just outside with six or seven people pointing various threateningly shaped objects at you...*
The will be useful in the sense that it gives us another option besides just running and gunning... We need useful abilities and an array of options...
A bunker only makes sense in a group setting... At novice we would get sandbags, at the top of each of our skill trees, we get another type of bunker, and one at master, 6 bunker types... simple, hell I will settle for TWO, one at novice, one at master....
But since one doesn't exist, I don't see why we can't get it. It doesnt' take alot of smarts to make trenches, sandbags, or even basic concrete pillboxes. I don't see why we can't issue a simple order to our group and in 30s or a minute, *bam* there's a 10 foot wide sandbad wall, or a small pillbox. We carry the resources & schematics around with us, issue a /createSandbag and the group takes an HAM action hit while they build the place, then we all get to hop in and enjoy till it falls apart (or times out). Combine this with DarthLithic's suppression weapon idea, and a squad leader becomes a must-have for base/city defense during raid's. It seems a natural extension of Ranged Weapon Support & Survival.
I don't think we should get anything much more complicated than that though. Or if we do, I would expect it to be "Taken away" And given to a combat engineer profession, when one comes available. I would draw the line at anything that would require advanced knowledge of architecture or complex wiring.
Just my .02...
irott wrote:
Glad to see you back in the fray Omegus.
Good to be back
And now that the team weapon idea has been proposed... I am leaning more and more to a fortification system. (This new version is much better)
that makes sence, i guess we could change the proposal to only include defence agienst ranged damage, or to protect mostly form ranged and a little melee defence. i geuss we cant expect to have everything, so i would be ok if the melee defence was taken out.
PanzerGR wrote:
and is that true about Skill mods? I had never hear dthat if a player was maxxed before that the SL ones didnt improve it. If this is true it needs ot be fixed.....otherwise theres no point in having them.
as far as i know it is, i read a thread aboot it a while ago, but i have not heard any news on this recently. if anyones know if this is true or false please let me know.
i read there is a skill mod cap on ranged and melee defence and from what i understand if a player has matched or excided the cap then they would not recive any bounuses form the SL skill mods.
Romeoprospero wrote:
Hi, new to the Squad Leader class. Reading this, I might change the idea and wording behind these structures, for what my 2 cents are worth. It seems to alleviate some valid complaints, maybe this skill would not be to make and place structures, as other classes do. Maybe it can be made that a Squad Leader can order and tell a Squad how to make a trench? "Dig this trench here" or "Pack those sand bags along there". What this means in game terms is that a Squad leader would need a Squad to have the structures made, and the higher the Squad Leader as well as the larger the Squad (and maybe size of Squad affects the creation time and the structures bonus's) the higher level structures can be made. Was just thinking this might satisfy the logic of not having it a Ranger ability but rather a Squad Leader ability, and makes sense too as in trenches, sandbag defenses, etc require manpower and a skilled mindfor placement more than the actual skillsof digging ditchsand filling sandbags
welcome to the ranks!
and you do have a good point, in the orgininal SL discution thread we had a reply from a player that claimed he wasa RL US millitary SL and while he wasnt ususaly the one digging the trenches he was the one desiding where they would be set up and told his troops where to dig ect. it would add to realizum and i was thinking about including this in the proposal, however, there might be a problem
for one it might be a difficult thing for the developers to impliment. aslo it requires that your Squad members arent doing anything. if someone is running around not skicking with the group or if a member is out of range or if they are doing something like crafting or surveying they wouldnt be able to stop and start building. some players might be annoyed if all of a suddenly they lose control of there character for a few seconds becuase the SL is trying to set up a fortifiction
its a good idea and adds to realizum and would further sepporate a fortification form Rangers, im just not sure if theres an easy way to work this into a the game
To SwiftBlue: Im not so sure fortifications should be allowed to be used inside buildings or in star ports, that could lead to griffing, besides the majority of the people that do that are load killers and i try to be above that. also why would you need to use sand bags for defence when they probably wont fight back.
"In order to attain Novice Squad Leader we have to get exactly the same amount of camping/survival XP as a novice Ranger, and yet this is in no way reflected in our skill tree!"
I totally agree Thulium...
- Squad Leaders are just as entitled to some form of encampment because of their Scout Survival prerequisites.
Of course, by this very logic, so are the Bounty Hunters...
- But no one say that too loud, they might hear us.
NRaas wrote:
Of course, by this very logic, so are the Bounty Hunters...
- But no one say that too loud, they might hear us.
its great to have your support NRass
many supporters of fortificaitons have requested that both Ranger and SL correspondents come together to help us get this idea presented to the Developers because if we can get fortificaitons with the combining ability for camps then this would not only be a great addition to our profession but would help increase the need for camps in PvP for the Rangers as well
OK, read throught the whole discussion thus far and this is my input.
Squad leader is a mobile unit that is sent out to patrol or assault an enemy.
If they get anything in this area that makes sense it would be a new command "/digIn". This command would slow the movements of all within the radius of the squad leader butdouble there ranged defense. Esentially a trench, but would not do anything to help melee defense for when the melee guys get in your trench you are dead.
Basic improvements that Rangers are hoping for in there camps are just to finally have it so that it actually repels creatures, to this day it still does not work. And, to have it so that Rangers can leave there camp and fight without it disbanding. As far as our medical bennefit? It really is a weak one because anyone with a good medical droid beats us.
It has been said that Rangers are solo people? Not so true, we can be solo but why are our camps so huge if not designed to work in groups? How many Master Rangers do you see solo in the wilderness with a HTBC out by themseves? Some grinding xp but aftermaster most just use scout camps for they are way cheaper to make.
Someone mentioned a combat engineer trade off of artisian, now that is a slick idea! Never thought of that one.
Basically, the idea is much to do about nothing, thestrucutures would serve little purpose really anyhow. If I saw one up we would just re-group and charge en-mass destroying the occupants and disbanding the structure, basically it would make you a stationary target, not a good thing to be, and easy to spot. Atleast with a /digIn command it would be mobile and more or less invisable. And would not bother the Rangers one bit I would bet for it does not encroach on a single thing we have.
Not to pee on your wheaties my freinds, but I dont really see the point and I could really care less either way but if I was forced to vote I would say NO, for it does encrouch on our skills, even if just a little. How would you like it if we got your group mobility ability? We are the travel experts after all, not you (dont flame for this, I dont ask for it and I understand why you should have it, just making a point.)
So, I wish you well and I truly hope that your skills keep getting improved (wink, /digIn), but not at the expense of potential improvements to another class. May the force be with you!
By the way, FYI I am a Master Ranger / Master Sharpshooter.
its seems that everyone is defining their professions differently
rangers have acused us of labling them as a wilderness/park ranger and with the current skills they have i would agree with this deffinision. however the Ranger comunity itself is split in their deffinision of themselves. some are on the wilderness side while other consider Ranger to be a Military Ranger however i do not see how their currect skills support that. i can understand if those ranger would like to have the definition of the ranger profession changed to more militerisit but this is something the ranger comunity will have to debate amoungst themselves and until the skills of a ranger are changed to match a military Ranger instead of a wilderness survival ranger as they are now then i dont see any valid argument for why rangers should get fortifications.
now as for the definition of a SL, a Squad needs to be mobile at times maybe but not all squads need to be mobile all the time. a SL is the leader of a Squad, a Squad could be reponceible for many things including potroling an area or defending one particular spot. the SL is the person that desides whena squad should attack, when they should retreat, when the sqaud needs to rest, when they need to move and when they need to fortify a position and hold it until renforcments arive or the battle is won.
i Define a SL as theDecision maker for a Squad, and we should have abilities that allow us to stratigicly support our squads, this proposal is directed toward Squads that need to hold one critical position. if there are other skills that could improve a Squads Mobility we would need those too! but moving or not thats the Squad Leaders Decision to make, and having he ability to fortify his or her sqaud when backed into a corner or the fate of a faction HQ is in jepordy would make that decision so much easyer
OmegusNeo wrote:
welcome to the ranks!
and you do have a good point, in the orgininal SL discution thread we had a reply from a player that claimed he wasa RL US millitary SL and while he wasnt ususaly the one digging the trenches he was the one desiding where they would be set up and told his troops where to dig ect. it would add to realizum and i was thinking about including this in the proposal, however, there might be a problem
for one it might be a difficult thing for the developers to impliment. aslo it requires that your Squad members arent doing anything. if someone is running around not skicking with the group or if a member is out of range or if they are doing something like crafting or surveying they wouldnt be able to stop and start building. some players might be annoyed if all of a suddenly they lose control of there character for a few seconds becuase the SL is trying to set up a fortifiction
its a good idea and adds to realizum and would further sepporate a fortification form Rangers, im just not sure if theres an easy way to work this into a the game
Yes, sorry I should have explained with more clairity. I meant that the Squad Leader maybe should need the players in the Squad to make a structure, but not take over the other characers or stop them from doing anything. The Squad Leader simply needs them there and within range, and a few seconds later the structure pops into existance just like any other structure.
And on this note, maybe the absolute best temporary structures would need both a Squad leader, with a squad, anda Ranger in the squad.
Oh, and thanks for the friendly welcome!